Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 10 and Counting . . .

[Ben-N1ce]

Somewhere Deuce cries...

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Lol on a side note I've never seen anything about Dueces mom and he def does not have her at games yet Duece is a little star.Clearly by design. Tatum def got good advice from others.

[Hal14]

Something stuck with me from the Ashley Battle's interview - when she was on the broadcast during one of our games last season.

"We can't bring just anybody into this locker room" she said. She also said something along the lines of how they are very careful with what type of person they add to the team and bring into the locker room. Their personality, their character, how will they think they will get along with the other guys, will they help or hurt the locker room vibes?

Especially when we're talking about adding a guy deeper on the bench - you don't want to run the risk that the player you add is gonna mess with the locker room vibes.

I think that's one reason why Brad has brought back so many former Celtics since he's been GM (Theis, Horford, Enes Freedom). He knew how those fit in to the C's locker room. So there was much less risk than bringing in a guy who hasn't been here before. With someone who hasn't been here before, we don't know how they will fit in the locker room, how they will get along with the other guys..

Afterall, Brad only signed 2 free agents last summer (griffin, gallo) and only signed 2 free agents the summer before that (Freedom, Schroder). He knows that if he signs too many FA's, the odds are higher that 1 of them could mess with the vibes.

We know Griffin was great for the vibes last season - great fit in the locker room. We know Javonte was a good fit with our guys, he's still close buddies with Tatum.

Let's just resign Griffin and sign Javonte to minimum contracts.

Griffin gives us another body for depth up front. Javonte is a high energy guy, a wing, good perimeter defender. Good cutter. Improved his outside shot in Chicago, too. Brad said he wanted to add another wing, like a 3/4 type of guy. Javonte's best position is the 3 but he actually started at the 4 quite a bit in Chicago when Patrick Williams was out with an injury (they had Lavine and Derozan on the wings, Javonte at the 4). Javonte is 6'5" but with his 6'10" wingspan, crazy vertical leap and the toughness he plays with, he plays bigger.

C Rob
F Porzingis
F Tatum
G Brown
G White

Bench: Brogdon, Al, Hauser, Javonte, Pritchard, Brissett, Kornet, Griffin, Walsh, Banton

Let's roll.

[ryan in Maine]

Kornet is super underrated around here.

So true. Send him and a second rounder to OKC for Usman Garuba and he'll feel more appreciated there amongst the 7'2" guys.

Cold I don't ever get the Kornet fascination though. Dude's a complete stiff

Underrating in action. Complete stiff? When has Kornet looked like a stiff?

[165bows]

Something stuck with me from the Ashley Battle's interview - when she was on the broadcast during one of our games last season.

"We can't bring just anybody into this locker room" she said. She also said something along the lines of how they are very careful with what type of person they add to the team and bring into the locker room. Their personality, their character, how will they think they will get along with the other guys, will they help or hurt the locker room vibes?

Especially when we're talking about adding a guy deeper on the bench - you don't want to run the risk that the player you add is gonna mess with the locker room vibes.

I think that's one reason why Brad has brought back so many former Celtics since he's been GM (Theis, Horford, Enes Freedom).

Afterall, Brad only signed 2 free agents last summer (griffin, gallo) and only signed 2 free agents the summer before that (Freedom, Schroder). He knows that if he signs too many FA's, the odds are higher that 1 of them could mess with the vibes.

We know Griffin was great for the vibes last season - great fit in the locker room. We know Javonte was a good fit with our guys, he's still close buddies with Tatum.

Let's just resign Griffin and sign Javonte to minimum contracts.

Griffin gives us another body for depth up front. Javonte is a high energy guy, a wing, good perimeter defender. Good cutter. Improved his outside shot in Chicago, too. Brad said he wanted to add another wing, like a 3/4 type of guy. Javonte's best position is the 3 but he actually started at the 4 quite a bit in Chicago when Patrick Williams was out with an injury (they had Lavine and Derozan on the wings, Javonte at the 4). Javonte is 6'5" but with his 6'10" wingspan, crazy vertical leap and the toughness he plays with, he plays bigger.

C Rob
F Porzingis
F Tatum
G Brown
G White

Bench: Brogdon, Al, Hauser, Javonte, Pritchard, Brissett, Kornet, Griffin, Walsh, Banton

Let's roll.

I totally agree with this first section - when Brad says they “need to finish the roster right” or whatever it was he is talking about what you are saying there 50/50 basketball-wise and also person-wise. They have some room for a guy to play a little bit but not a ton. So it’s got to be that Blake from last year kind of guy who is happy to come in and contribute as a deeper bench guy but also be cool with sitting for awhile and not playing when they aren’t needed.

So all that being said the second part makes a ton of sense as well. There’s obviously multiple options in the mix for all parties involved or the deals would be getting done now so it’s fun to speculate about who the various priorities are.

But imo how you are describing the situation on the whole is likely 100% spot on. Plus if they sign Javonte we can just refer to him as J Green and the ensuing trails of confusion will be a fun wrinkle this year lol.

[Hal14]

I see you, Javonte.

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[Celts17Pride]

I disagree with bringing back guys like Griffin and Javonte Green. The goal here is to win a championship. That’s what the organization and players should be focused on especially this year. The focus shouldn’t be on finding guys that can “hang out” with their players.

Get some guys with an edge that will help push the players in the right direction which is to focus on the goal in hand which is win a championship

Red Auerbach said gets me some agitators and instigators, not some retaliators.

[darrendaye]

I disagree with bringing back guys like Griffin and Javonte Green. The goal here is to win a championship. That’s what the organization and players should be focused on especially this year. The focus shouldn’t be on finding guys that can “hang out” with their players.

Get some guys with an edge that will help push the players in the right direction which is to focus on the goal in hand which is win a championship

Red Auerbach said gets me some agitators and instigators, not some retaliators.

But Blake Griffin IS an agitator and instigator. You can argue his diminished skills don't warrant regular playing time and being on court to agitate, but he firmly falls into the category. Green doesn't seem to have that chippiness you're after, but he possesses hustle plays and ball taking defensive skills that the team could use after Smart left the building. All that said, I understand your beliefs about Brogdon's status impacts how you think about the trickle down roster construct.

[Half-Full]

I disagree with bringing back guys like Griffin and Javonte Green. The goal here is to win a championship. That’s what the organization and players should be focused on especially this year. The focus shouldn’t be on finding guys that can “hang out” with their players.

Get some guys with an edge that will help push the players in the right direction which is to focus on the goal in hand which is win a championship

Red Auerbach said gets me some agitators and instigators, not some retaliators.

As I recall, Blake Griffin played well when called upon. He played hard, diving for loose balls, taking charges, setting screens, and contributing some scoring. Add to that his positive contributions in the locker room. As for Javonte, I would say that he has some edge to him, as well as the ability to play hard nosed defense, and to bring energy. When we are talking about filling end of bench slots, we have to take into consideration the fact that "better" players are not looking for such a role. Veterans like Blake and Javonte have demonstrated their worth, are willing to accept a reduced role, and I believe they can step in, and step up when called upon. Blake and Javonte are not the only players we should consider, but they are certainly worthy of consideration.

[darrendaye]

Why wouldn't Blake accept true vet minimum and hence let the Celts get the salary and cap subsidies that go with that?

I can't think of a reason, unless he chooses to retire outright, which he well might if his non-sporadic playing days are over.

Don’t the various vet mins count the same?

Yes

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

If this is accurate, Blake is looking at 3,196,448 as a 10+ year veteran.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2022/

I don't know the current adjustment to cap these vet minimum contracts create, but, Spotrac had his 2,905,851 count 1,836,090 against the cap. If this is percentage based and that percentage remains constant for his season, it would result in a (approx.) 2,019,706 charge against the cap.

[165bows]

I disagree with bringing back guys like Griffin and Javonte Green. The goal here is to win a championship. That’s what the organization and players should be focused on especially this year. The focus shouldn’t be on finding guys that can “hang out” with their players.

Get some guys with an edge that will help push the players in the right direction which is to focus on the goal in hand which is win a championship

Red Auerbach said gets me some agitators and instigators, not some retaliators.

Well it’s not about finding a good vibes haslem guy it’s about finding someone that can play well when needed and also not be a total beach when they aren’t getting whatever fits their own agenda.

[165bows]

Don’t the various vet mins count the same?

Yes

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

If this is accurate, Blake is looking at 3,196,448 as a 10+ year veteran.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2022/

I don't know the current adjustment to cap these vet minimum contracts create, but, Spotrac had his 2,905,851 count 1,836,090 against the cap. If this is percentage based and that percentage remains constant for his season, it would result in a (approx.) 2,019,706 charge against the cap.

Iirc that’s almost exactly what they list Blake’s cap hold at. So I’m not certain but I think the new guy will likely cost that against the cap/apron and then likely a second that fills champs spot if that happens at the same rate (so just a tiny increase from Champagnie).

[poopship]

Don’t the various vet mins count the same?

Yes

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

If this is accurate, Blake is looking at 3,196,448 as a 10+ year veteran.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2022/

I don't know the current adjustment to cap these vet minimum contracts create, but, Spotrac had his 2,905,851 count 1,836,090 against the cap. If this is percentage based and that percentage remains constant for his season, it would result in a (approx.) 2,019,706 charge against the cap.

The same cap hit (for only one year) as 15 year veteran Robin Lopez and one year veteran Sandro Mamukelashvili.

[snowman]

Yes

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

If this is accurate, Blake is looking at 3,196,448 as a 10+ year veteran.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2022/

I don't know the current adjustment to cap these vet minimum contracts create, but, Spotrac had his 2,905,851 count 1,836,090 against the cap. If this is percentage based and that percentage remains constant for his season, it would result in a (approx.) 2,019,706 charge against the cap.

Iirc that’s almost exactly what they list Blake’s cap hold at. So I’m not certain but I think the new guy will likely cost that against the cap/apron and then likely a second that fills champs spot if that happens at the same rate (so just a tiny increase from Champagnie).

From FAQ bout minimum, salary players question number 22.
"When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, 10-day or Rest-of-Season contract at the minimum salary, the league reimburses the team for part of his salary -- any amount above the minimum salary for a two-year veteran. For example, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran in 2017-18 is $1,471,382, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $2,328,652, the league would reimburse the team $857,270. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive than younger veterans."

Blake's salary could be anywhere between $2,019,706 at the lowest, to $3,196,448 at the highest and for a maximum of one year, depending on what Blake is willing to take. This is why Blake's salary was $2,905,851 last season, the max for a minimum salary 10+ year vet, but his cap hold is $2,019,706, the minimum he can get paid on a one-year contract this season, but if the team wants or can afford, he can get paid $3,196,448 this season.

[tfmiii]

Somewhere Deuce cries...

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Disappointing. I cry for him.

EDIT: I'm dubious.

EDITED EDIT: No way that's him.

After a 20 second view of the replies now, this my favorite..

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I'd expect the true JT to sit far taller in the saddle and also have legs significantly longer than Kendall...

[165bows]

Bring him back, Brad.

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Looks like Chicago has similar roster set up as Boston - 14 guys, one being non-gtd. Otoh they are 3.4M under the tax and aren’t going to be a great team, so I could definitely see them just leaving that last spot open.

Doubt they want to risk going into the tax for that team. Plus Chicago signed Torrey Craig, who would take some of the minutes Green had.

Seems like Green and Derrick Jones are a couple of the better bench guys still left out there.

[Hal14]

Bring him back, Brad.

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Looks like Chicago has similar roster set up as Boston - 14 guys, one being non-gtd. Otoh they are 3.4M under the tax and aren’t going to be a great team, so I could definitely see them just leaving that last spot open.

Doubt they want to risk going into the tax for that team. Plus Chicago signed Torrey Craig, who would take some of the minutes Green had.

Seems like Green and Derrick Jones are a couple of the better bench guys still left out there.

Yeah I'm thinking that perhaps (between Javonte and DJJ), Chicago brings 1 of them back, and says peace out to the other..

[bisme37]

I'd like Blake back. He plays super hard when called upon and most of all I think he's great for the locker room.

“I think Blake’s a huge cornerstone of that, just because of the career he’s had and where he’s at now, and the humility he brings to just coming in every single day,” Mazzulla said. “Whether it’s playing with the younger guys or whether it’s starting for us, his attitude and his focus on what’s most important doesn’t change. He has the utmost respect of everybody in the locker room.”

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/02/why-blake-griffin-is-cornerstone-of-celtics-locker-room-joe-mazzulla-says.html

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[Hal14]

I disagree with bringing back guys like Griffin and Javonte Green. The goal here is to win a championship. That’s what the organization and players should be focused on especially this year. The focus shouldn’t be on finding guys that can “hang out” with their players.

Get some guys with an edge that will help push the players in the right direction which is to focus on the goal in hand which is win a championship

Red Auerbach said gets me some agitators and instigators, not some retaliators.

First off, who said to find guys who can hang out with their players? I didn't see anyone say that. Yet you put it in quotes, which is weird. I definitely didn't say that - perhaps I missed where someone else did.

Javonte and Griffin have not only proven that they fit in with the guys on this team, are well liked by the guys on the team and are good vibes guys to have around but they would also help this team on the court, as I already explained in my previous post.

Any free agent get at this point is probably not gonna be much better than Javonte or Griffin anyways. And if they are better, they're probably gonna sign with a different team, that could offer them more minutes and/or more money.

If you add some other guy instead who hasn't been here before, you run a much bigger risk that they're not a good fit, they might mess up the chemistry in the locker room. And it's not worth taking that chance when we're talking about an end of the bench guy. Case in point, Juancho Hernangomez. We acquired him via trade a couple yrs ago. He ended up being a poor fit on the court and off the court. We traded him away the first chance we could - and after we traded him there was reports in the media about Juancho talking sh&t about the C's and saying how he didn't like it here. Case in point, Tristan Thompson. We signed him as a FA, but he was not a good fit on the court or off the court. There was all these reports about the guys on the team not liking him, it seemed like all drama with him and the Kardashians was a distraction for the team, etc.

Jabari Parker wasn't a good fit on the court or off either. He just didn't seem to fit in very well with the other guys on the Celtics - seemed like a loner.

Meanwhile, guys like J-Rich, Javonte, Griffin, Kemba. These are guys who fit in great with the Celtics, were well liked by teammates, brought good vibes AND they helped the team on the court (well, at least until Kemba's knees got all messed up).

And don't take my word for it. As I already explained in my previous post, Ashley Battle (Celtics scout) explained on the broadcast of one of the C's games last season how the C's front office team this stuff (the player's off-court fit, locker room fit, personality, character) very seriously. She said "we can't bring just anybody into this locker room.

You hear Brad talk, he often talks about what these guys are like as people, off the court. He says how it matters a lot. The way they (as a person) mesh with the guys already on the team (as people). Wyc talked about JB's character and the type of person he is at the press conference the other day when JB signed his extension.

These players aren't robots. This isn't a video game. They're real people. People with emotions, with personalities, some of them have a bad temper, some of them are too passive aggressive, some of them are selfish. Some of them don't get along with each other. Some of them get along great. And after Gabe Vincent's comments a couple weeks ago where he said that the Heat players (during the ECF) could sense that there was something not right internally with the C's, I think that now more than ever, this is something that the C's front office will take even more seriously.

This stuff matters. Look at the warriors. won the 2022 NBA title. But then the following season at training camp, Draymond punches Poole's lights out. Then warriors get bounced in the 2nd round. Then as soon as their season ends, the warriors trade Poole. Then we hear reports about how Poole was not well liked by the guys on that warriors team..

You want a player with an edge, an agitator, but you don't want Blake? That's odd.

Watch on YouTube

How about the way Javonte is an agitator on defense?

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?s=20

The goal here is to win a championship? Of course it is. We're the favorites to win the championship according to the latest odds. So anyone we add with the last 1 or 2 roster spots doesn't have to be a superstar player. Just someone to contribute a little bit here or there, add some depth and not mess up the locker room vibes.

Who would you sign to fill out the roster?

[steefP2]

Small point to those who are trying to figure out the cap situation; kornet is on the 2nd year of his contract which is higher than the minimum would be now by a small but meaningful amount.

They will probably cut him and resign him for a true minimum since it’s wholly non guaranteed

[165bows]

Small point to those who are trying to figure out the cap situation; kornet is on the 2nd year of his contract which is higher than the minimum would be now by a small but meaningful amount.

They will probably cut him and resign him for a true minimum since it’s wholly non guaranteed

That they aren’t going to do this will be another data point that they value this guy being good at his role.