"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[FakeScreenName123]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

[peachbucket]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

I'm good with this except would take Luwawu instead of Baldwin who is 6'7"...unless Baldwin is the next Chris Paul, we don't need another 6'2" combo guard prospects. Definitely on board with high risk/high ceiling players with elite physical tools. Enough of these safe, redundant, flawed, dime a dozen role players...we already have lots of those.

[DK-All Day]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

I haven't watched Bender outside of a couple YouTube videos. How does he play? Do you think he's legit?

[Yunsen]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

I'm good with this except would take Luwawu instead of Baldwin who is 6'7"...unless Baldwin is the next Chris Paul, we don't need another 6'2" combo guard prospects. Definitely on board with high risk/high ceiling players with elite physical tools. Enough of these safe, redundant, flawed, dime a dozen role players...we already have lots of those.

Luwawu won't last that long. We'd have to jump into the late lottery to get him.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yeah, good point- I mean it in the sense that Dunleavy (partly bc of athleticism) wasn't able to assert himself and influence the game in the same way in the pros, with Simmons it would be more mental/psychological than physical.. It's sort of like observing a similarity between Jeff Green (super-athletic) and Dunleavy- who turned into a really superb role-player, FWIW..

Simmons isn't close to being a top 3 athlete at PF in the NBA. He's just smooth and looks cool dribbling the ball. Not a great leaper, not super quick, and not particularly agile. The power of hype is amazing.

Oh the irony... Is Thon better than him too?

Simmons during his pre-season combine set a record for full court sprint and jumped over 40 inches. His second jump is ridiculous and is the reason he scored on so many tip-ins this year. He's an incredible leaper. He's incredibly quick. And he's incredibly agile-- you don't get to the free throw line 11 times a game in a stacked paint without being agile.

Try again, Thon.

Thanks, I didn't know that about the second jump.. I'm also healthily skeptical about the team combine numbers.. Will wait for the pre-draft evals.

I remember that piece about Simmons shooting with the wrong hand, and that's huge, if true.. It could take him years to rebuild his shot, but.. That's a big detail.

And Towns is one comparison- guys get picked apart, their stock rises and falls, and then the pre-draft workouts and hype do a lot to stabilize their value. Simmons may have enough "special"ness to fare ok.

But another case to remember is Myles Turner- last year he went from top 3 to top 15 over the course of the season, with big concerns about his health and gait. He completely overhauled his running style and muscle distribution (is that a phrase?) and by summer league looked like he should have been a top 5 pick.

I haven't watched or read up on Skal much, but he could be an Avery Bradley type (if he declares) who Ainge likes because his stock's deflated by a bad freshman year.

The rough thing about this draft (has Ainge publicly commented on it at all? Probably not, since he's picking top 5- usually he downplays the significance of individual drafts) is that there's no one who looks ready to contribute day 1. Last year was the year to keep up the tank, a lot of players who could contribute immediately in some way- Towns, Porzingis, Okafor, Johnson, Kaminsky all got minutes and touches. This is another raw draft, so if we don't make a trade and get a prospect to grow with, that's going to change how we approach team-building.

[DijonRondo]

people LOVE to pick apart 19 year old elite prospects. Same thing happened to Karl Anthony Towns last year. I'll admit that even I wasn't sold on KAT's ability to step in and contribute immediately. Now look at him.
Bottom line..Simmons is going to beast in the NBA game.

I'm thrilled with Simmons or Ingram.

I'd imagine that if Danny stays in the draft he'd salivate at a Simmons/Skal or Ingram/Skal combo with the BK/Mavs picks

I don't think many people were picking apart Towns. In fact it seemed as the offseason went on, it became clearer and clearer he was the no-brainer #1 pick. Biggest surprise frankly is how aggressive he has become as a scorer and his ability to step out and hit the 3. Those were the two things he didn't have in college. His rebounding, D and soft touch in the post were all readily apparent in college.

I do agree Simmons is getting picked apart a bit much offensively. Lebron cannot shoot to save his life either, but nobody can keep him out of the paint. Simmons drew fouls at absurd rates in college - he's probably not getting that many calls in the NBA but I do think he's going to be a complete handful for most PFs in the NBA.

The big question about his projection is whether he can shore up one of his two major holes. He can be elite without being a good shooter if he becomes a good defender, and he can be elite without being an elite defender if he develops a jumper. Without both, the ceiling gets a bit more limited, but he's still probably good enough to be your #2 piece for a title contender during his prime.

There's also the big question of whether Simmons wants to embrace the grind of getting beat up every night at PF. LeBron doesn't like that grind, and LeBron is 20-30 lbs stronger than Simmons.

I wouldn't be surprised if Simmons tries to declare himself a small forward to avoid the nightly beatings.

This sounds stupid. Simmons will play the position that the coach wants to him to play. When he comes into the league he won't be a college superstar anymore he will be a rookie making minimum wage.

Love how you compare a 19 year old that hadn't had years of NBA weight training to LeBron though. Lol.

Also, you should really name all these PF bruisers that are going to man handle a 6' 10" 240 pound 19 year old that will probably grow another inch and gain another 15 pounds in 2 years.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

This is a lazy analysis, but Bender looks slow off the ground the times I've seen clips.. Could get his shot blocked a lot in the NBA.. We already lived through Antoine

I think we're probably a good bet to trade up with 17/23/Rozier/Hunter/Mickey/Young, even Avery Bradley. I could see NOP giving up 6 for Avery+.. And 17/23+ might get us into the 8-13 range, if there's a team that really loves James Young..

We could also trade down to pick up an asset, like 2/Amir for 7/Gallo..

Argue with some of the scenarios and values, but there will be options.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I don't think many people were picking apart Towns. In fact it seemed as the offseason went on, it became clearer and clearer he was the no-brainer #1 pick. Biggest surprise frankly is how aggressive he has become as a scorer and his ability to step out and hit the 3. Those were the two things he didn't have in college. His rebounding, D and soft touch in the post were all readily apparent in college.

I do agree Simmons is getting picked apart a bit much offensively. Lebron cannot shoot to save his life either, but nobody can keep him out of the paint. Simmons drew fouls at absurd rates in college - he's probably not getting that many calls in the NBA but I do think he's going to be a complete handful for most PFs in the NBA.

The big question about his projection is whether he can shore up one of his two major holes. He can be elite without being a good shooter if he becomes a good defender, and he can be elite without being an elite defender if he develops a jumper. Without both, the ceiling gets a bit more limited, but he's still probably good enough to be your #2 piece for a title contender during his prime.

There's also the big question of whether Simmons wants to embrace the grind of getting beat up every night at PF. LeBron doesn't like that grind, and LeBron is 20-30 lbs stronger than Simmons.

I wouldn't be surprised if Simmons tries to declare himself a small forward to avoid the nightly beatings.

This sounds stupid. Simmons will play the position that the coach wants to him to play. When he comes into the league he won't be a college superstar anymore he will be a rookie making minimum wage.

Love how you compare a 19 year old that hadn't had years of NBA weight training to LeBron though. Lol.

Also, you should really name all these PF bruisers that are going to man handle a 6' 10" 240 pound 19 year old that will probably grow another inch and gain another 15 pounds in 2 years.

No guarantee that Simmons will walk into training camp thinking of himself as a rookie making minimum wage who will do whatever his coach tells him. Players have egos, and insecurities- if you're a number 1 pick, you feel pressure, and guys always like to stick with what they know, and do well, and feel confident doing, and can be reluctant to switch up aspects of their game. There's a lot of human element... Unlike with Towns, no one is really raving about Simmons' maturity or work ethic..

[Andrew McCeltic]

But we could be over-thinking it.. I can't remember the last time a college player looked "special" like Simmons does, just eye-test unique, and didn't succeed.. I guess Evan Turner, Winslow, MKG had some of that, but the jury's only in on Turner.

[SmartWentCrazy]

But we could be over-thinking it.. I can't remember the last time a college player looked "special" like Simmons does, just eye-test unique, and didn't succeed.. I guess Evan Turner, Winslow, MKG had some of that, but the jury's only in on Turner.

Last one I can think of is Beasley. If he only gave a ****, he'd be a top 10 player, easily. I can definitively say that he was a HOF talent-- still shocked it was never able to trump his two cent brain.

[Homerclease]

3. Bender
16. Skal
23. Maker
31. Hernangomez
35. Zhou qi


One of them is bound to be better than Tyler Zeller.

[brackdan70]

3. J. Murry or K. Dunn
16. Baldwin
23. D. Murry
31. Melo Trimble
35. C. Lavert

all combo guards all the time.

[Envelope]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

I haven't watched Bender outside of a couple YouTube videos. How does he play? Do you think he's legit?

Don't ask these guys, they've never watched him. They just know he's ranked 3rd on Draft Express, so therefore he MUST be the guy we take at 3.

[Writebloc]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

This is a lazy analysis, but Bender looks slow off the ground the times I've seen clips.. Could get his shot blocked a lot in the NBA.. We already lived through Antoine

I think we're probably a good bet to trade up with 17/23/Rozier/Hunter/Mickey/Young, even Avery Bradley. I could see NOP giving up 6 for Avery+.. And 17/23+ might get us into the 8-13 range, if there's a team that really loves James Young..

We could also trade down to pick up an asset, like 2/Amir for 7/Gallo..

Argue with some of the scenarios and values, but there will be options.

I believe a perfunctory No Gallo is appropriate here.

[Homerclease]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

I haven't watched Bender outside of a couple YouTube videos. How does he play? Do you think he's legit?

Don't ask these guys, they've never watched him. They just know he's ranked 3rd on Draft Express, so therefore he MUST be the guy we take at 3.

There is no need to attack posters because they have different opinions than you.

[Writebloc]

If our picks stay where they are...

I want Dragon Bender @ 3.

I want Wade Baldwin @ 17.

I want the 7'2 Chinese guy @ 23.

as of today.

I haven't watched Bender outside of a couple YouTube videos. How does he play? Do you think he's legit?

Don't ask these guys, they've never watched him. They just know he's ranked 3rd on Draft Express, so therefore he MUST be the guy we take at 3.

Or they could listen to you and blindly insist we take Thon Maker...

[Homerclease]

I haven't watched Bender outside of a couple YouTube videos. How does he play? Do you think he's legit?

Don't ask these guys, they've never watched him. They just know he's ranked 3rd on Draft Express, so therefore he MUST be the guy we take at 3.

Or they could listen to you and blindly insist we take Thon Maker...

Also unnecessary. Guy likes Maker, it's his opinion and he's entitled to it

[Envelope]

Raise your hand if you've actually watched Bender in a full game. I'll admit that I haven't, but those who have say he's very soft and contact averse. European fans compare him to Bargnani. That's not American fans comparing him to Bargnani because all Euros are the same to them, that's European fans who watch Bender regularly and watch European basketball much more than we do. When European fans say somebody plays like Bargnani, alarm bells should go off.

Then you look at his athletic testing. Two different times his standing vert was 23-24 inches, with a max vert around 27 inches. That's like worse than Sullinger.

You want a soft, unexplosive twig of a player with the 3rd pick?

At the very least, maybe you guys should take a step back and not get too attached to the softer version of Olynyk.

I love Olynyk, but we don't need a softer version, not with a top pick.

Do some more research, at the very least. Some of the mock draft guys have an emotional investment in certain guys, and they don't have to live with the consequences of actually drafting the guy.

[Envelope]

I haven't watched Bender outside of a couple YouTube videos. How does he play? Do you think he's legit?

Don't ask these guys, they've never watched him. They just know he's ranked 3rd on Draft Express, so therefore he MUST be the guy we take at 3.

Or they could listen to you and blindly insist we take Thon Maker...

At the very least, Thon Maker deserves to be compared neck-and-neck with Bender.

And nobody is questioning Maker's toughness and aversion to physical play.

We saw what kind of guts Skal Labissiere had this year at Kentucky. No fight. Coach Cal even said exactly that on TV in a halftime interview.

The same mock draft experts who are clinging to the idea that Bender is the 3rd best prospect are the same guys who had Skal Labissiere ranked number one or two, right up until Skal's lack of guts/toughness was staring them in the face for so long that they had to make an adjustment.

[Homerclease]

Raise your hand if you've actually watched Bender in a full game. I'll admit that I haven't, but those who have say he's very soft and contact averse. European fans compare him to Bargnani. That's not American fans comparing him to Bargnani because all Euros are the same to them, that's European fans who watch Bender regularly and watch European basketball much more than we do. When European fans say somebody plays like Bargnani, alarm bells should go off.

Then you look at his athletic testing. Two different times his standing vert was 23-24 inches, with a max vert around 27 inches. That's like worse than Sullinger.

You want a soft, unexplosive twig of a player with the 3rd pick?

At the very least, maybe you guys should take a step back and not get too attached to the softer version of Olynyk.

I love Olynyk, but we don't need a softer version, not with a top pick.

Do some more research, at the very least. Some of the mock draft guys have an emotional investment in certain guys, and they don't have to live with the consequences of actually drafting the guy.

There are regular posters here from across the pond that get to see him on the regular and rave about him. Many others here are basketball junkies and do their homework, it might not be fair to assume that because you haven't seen him play that others are only basing their opinions off mock draft sites.