Celtics and Clippers Deal close to Being Official

[Afam]

That's false. The reason we want Bledsoe in the deal is because Jordan sucks and is making 10 mil a season. Furthermore, we are trading Kg, pierce and doc for jordan who is looking like a bust for picks that amount to 2 second rounders. No thanks. At least with Bledsoe you are getting something in the deal

I wouldn't even do Jordan for Kg straight up.

Again, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in Celtic fans saying that the inclusion of Bledsoe should not be a deal-breaker from the Clippers' end, but the exclusion of Bledsoe absolutely should be from the Celtics' end.

Ok. My bad. The exclusion of Bledsoe is a deal breaker in my book. Again Jordan sucks and does nothing for us.

[Bill Lumbergh]

The Celtics are rebuilding... That means there is zero pressure to do anything.

Unless you think that in a rebuilding situation Ainge would rather get *some* assets for KG and Pierce rather than none, and I believe he should be thinking that way.

[soxfan2003]

I don't think this deal necessarily needs to include Bledsoe but it if doesn't have him, the Clippers should have to give up more picks especially if PP has indicated he will join Rivers/KG in LA. The truth is there is no reason for the Celtics to accept Jordan for KG pretty much straight up considering the two picks would really be compensation for Rivers.

I don't think the Celtics hold "all the cards" but the hold the better hand. Why? Even if KG stays and retires and Rivers goes off to TNT for a year or two, there will be a very good chance that Rivers takes an nba job within the next 3 years and the Celtics get a first round pick for compensation.

Not having Bledsoe, Jordan, KG and PP just make it a bit easier to tank.... Ideally this trade would just bring back 3-4 first round picks not owned by the Clippers and nothing else.

And if this deal falls through, nothing prevents KG from accepting a trade to another team such as Chicago later on. If PP is gone and KG can't go to the same team, I would hardly be shocked if he changes his mind. He is obviously familiar with the head coach there.

[GreenMachine]

Ok. My bad. The exclusion of Bledsoe is a deal breaker in my book. Again Jordan sucks and does nothing for us.

This is simply not true. Kwame Brown! Theo Ratliff! Raef Lafrentz! Even if you don't think Jordan is any good (debatable) you need contracts to trade for Stars who make a lot of money. For example... Jordan + (a healthy) Sully + AB + Picks = A Really Good Player.

[greenmachine_2849]

This is why Danny will keep his job no matter what. He's tried to help out Doc and KG and Paul but he won't give em up for scraps. He knows what they're worth to the LAC brass with Chris Paul's signing looming.

No he isn't. He is just being greedy. Hell, the Bulls got back Roy Rogers and a 2nd round pick for a 33 year old Scottie Pippen after they decided to break up the championship Bulls. Yes, it was a sign and trade in the case of Pippen, so that does change things a little. Regardless, when you make it pretty clear that you are breaking up the band, you should expect to get offers for pennies on the dollar. Especially when that dollar is only valid for a year or two, max.

[GreenMachine]

Exactly. It makes no sense to buy him out not even get a draft pick in return. What number pick does Dallas have?

Pierce for Dallas' 1st would be a fine deal.

You can be 100% sure that if DA does in fact buy PP out it means he has exhausted all options for trading him. It might be possible... but teams might not be jumping at the opportunity to give up a draft pick for the right to give away 5 Million dollars for nothing! For example Dallas could take a Euro and stash him over seas and then trade Marion to a team under the cap for a second round pick. This way they don't loose the (relatively high) draft pick nor the FIVE MILLION DOLLARS and still get the salary cap savings desired.

I'm not saying it won't happen... I sure am hopping it WILL happen... but if PP IS bought out... you can bet it is because DA tried and tried and couldn't find a taker...

[ermocrate]

clips fans and their owner are being shortsighted- they think eric bledsoe is a big deal. he isn't. .

And yet 90% of this board have their panties in a bunch over the thought that Ainge would make this deal without Bledsoe in it. Can't have it both ways.

And I STRONGLY disagree that Ainge holds all the cards. Maybe if he hadn't leaked it out that they were going to buy Paul Pierce out for five million in order to save money, maybe then I would buy that argument. But he did, and now everybody knows there is virtually 0% chance of the Celtics bringing back the core for another go at it.

Honestly, I think the pressure is very strong on Ainge to get something done. The absolute worst case scenario would be Ainge buying out Pierce for $5 million, refusing to trade Kevin Garnett to a contender and basically forcing him to retire (as he is too old to go through the motions on a lottery team), and having their top five coach doing TNT broadcasts in 2013-2014. Meanwhile, we will have Vinnie Del Negro walking the Boston sidelines, barking instructions to the likes of Courtney Lee, Jason Terry, and Brandon Bass, the three players who, since Ainge so overvalued them last summer, made it so we couldn't afford to let Pierce retire a Celtic.

I won't go so far as to predict that Ainge would be canned at the end of the year if that worst case scenario bore out, but I think it is a pretty safe bet that he wouldn't be a very popular fellow in the Boston area. Especially if the fans suffer through a 20 win season and don't get lucky in the 2014 lottery, as per usual.

You just forget the 12 million CAP space we will use to sign Jefferson or Josh Smith this offseason in this scenario... Far better than DeAndre Jordan.

[ermocrate]

That's false. The reason we want Bledsoe in the deal is because Jordan sucks and is making 10 mil a season. Furthermore, we are trading Kg, pierce and doc for jordan who is looking like a bust for picks that amount to 2 second rounders. No thanks. At least with Bledsoe you are getting something in the deal

I wouldn't even do Jordan for Kg straight up.

Again, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in Celtic fans saying that the inclusion of Bledsoe should not be a deal-breaker from the Clippers' end, but the exclusion of Bledsoe absolutely should be from the Celtics' end.

It's not hypocrisy, is common sense, you take a negative value and 1-2 picks, too small price for 3 HOFer and the possibility to re-sign another HOFer, at least Bledsoe give us the only true value in this trade... He is not MJ but better than nothing.

[greenmachine_2849]

Ok. My bad. The exclusion of Bledsoe is a deal breaker in my book. Again Jordan sucks and does nothing for us.

This is simply not true. Kwame Brown! Theo Ratliff! Raef Lafrentz! Even if you don't think Jordan is any good (debatable) you need contracts to trade for Stars who make a lot of money. For example... Jordan + (a healthy) Sully + AB + Picks = A Really Good Player.

By that logic, Chris Wallace's trading for Vin Baker's contract was a stroke of genius. Can't get more of a contract than that.

I do get what you are saying, don't get me wrong. But we already have Jason Terry/Brandon Bass with about $12 million combined set to expire in 2015. If such a trade comes along, we can already package them along with Bradley, Sullinger, and picks to get that really good player. We don't need another $10 million in bad contracts to have that ability.

If you have too many long-term bad contracts on the books (and have a number of young players on rookie contracts looking for a big pay increase shortly), you get to the point where you need to include the number seven pick in the draft to exchange Raef LaFrentz's bad contract with three years left on it for Theo Ratliff's bad contract with only two years left on it. And that seems to be kind of anti-productive, imo.

[ermocrate]

Ok. My bad. The exclusion of Bledsoe is a deal breaker in my book. Again Jordan sucks and does nothing for us.

This is simply not true. Kwame Brown! Theo Ratliff! Raef Lafrentz! Even if you don't think Jordan is any good (debatable) you need contracts to trade for Stars who make a lot of money. For example... Jordan + (a healthy) Sully + AB + Picks = A Really Good Player.

You trade Jordan, a pick and two very good player for a very good player? Weird...

[GreenMachine]

Jordan only has two years on his deal... and isn't that bad! We might even want to keep him. If he was making 8 Mil a year instead of 10 Mil he would be considered a good deal. Good defensive Center.

[greenmachine_2849]

That's false. The reason we want Bledsoe in the deal is because Jordan sucks and is making 10 mil a season. Furthermore, we are trading Kg, pierce and doc for jordan who is looking like a bust for picks that amount to 2 second rounders. No thanks. At least with Bledsoe you are getting something in the deal

I wouldn't even do Jordan for Kg straight up.

Again, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in Celtic fans saying that the inclusion of Bledsoe should not be a deal-breaker from the Clippers' end, but the exclusion of Bledsoe absolutely should be from the Celtics' end.

It's not hypocrisy, is common sense, you take a negative value and 1-2 picks, too small price for 3 HOFer and the possibility to re-sign another HOFer, at least Bledsoe give us the only true value in this trade... He is not MJ but better than nothing.

No, it is hypocrisy. You (not necessarily you specifically, but you know what I mean) can't argue that Eric Bledsoe is far and away the most crucial piece you would be getting back from the Clippers in the trade on the one hand, while on the other hand acting surprised that the Clippers would be a little reluctant to include Eric Bledsoe in the trade.

[ermocrate]

Jordan only has two years on his deal... and isn't that bad! We might even want to keep him. If he was making 8 Mil a year instead of 10 Mil he would be considered a good deal. Good defensive Center.

Good at helping but sucks at defensive positioning and a total liability on offense, I've seen multiple sessions of hack-a-DeAndre... KG or cap space is far more valuable than him.

[ermocrate]

Again, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in Celtic fans saying that the inclusion of Bledsoe should not be a deal-breaker from the Clippers' end, but the exclusion of Bledsoe absolutely should be from the Celtics' end.

It's not hypocrisy, is common sense, you take a negative value and 1-2 picks, too small price for 3 HOFer and the possibility to re-sign another HOFer, at least Bledsoe give us the only true value in this trade... He is not MJ but better than nothing.

No, it is hypocrisy. You (not necessarily you specifically, but you know what I mean) can't argue that Eric Bledsoe is far and away the most crucial piece you would be getting back from the Clippers in the trade on the one hand, while on the other hand acting surprised that the Clippers would be a little reluctant to include Eric Bledsoe in the trade.

It's crucial because is the only little value coming from LA in this trade and I'm surprised because Clippers are so stupid that they think BOS can trade assets for nothing.

[GreenMachine]

Jordan only has two years on his deal... and isn't that bad! We might even want to keep him. If he was making 8 Mil a year instead of 10 Mil he would be considered a good deal. Good defensive Center.

Good at helping but sucks at defensive positioning and a total liability on offense, I've seen multiple sessions of hack-a-DeAndre... KG or cap space is far more valuable than him.

We only get cap space if KG not only retires, but also agrees to walk away from his contract. One thing I have never understood about the NBA is why players are allowed to retire but still get paid. You don't play you shouldn't get paid AND that should come off the cap...

[smith2373]

Even if this deal doesn't happen, we still HAVE to get rid of Doc.

Why keep a coach that doesn't want to be here?

[greenmachine_2849]

You just forget the 12 million CAP space we will use to sign Jefferson or Josh Smith this offseason in this scenario... Far better than DeAndre Jordan.

So you are saying that, if we buy Pierce out (and get the remaining $11 million taken off our cap) and Garnett retires, we would be $12 million under the salary cap? IF that is true (wouldn't we have to buy out at least a portion of Garnett's contract as well), I could probably live with that scenario, then.

[GreenMachine]

You just forget the 12 million CAP space we will use to sign Jefferson or Josh Smith this offseason in this scenario... Far better than DeAndre Jordan.

So you are saying that, if we buy Pierce out (and get the remaining $11 million taken off our cap) and Garnett retires, we would be $12 million under the salary cap? IF that is true (wouldn't we have to buy out at least a portion of Garnett's contract as well), I could probably live with that scenario, then.

It's not true. If we cut PP and paid him 5 Mil and then cut the China 3 we would be at about 68 Million. Even if KG walked away from 100% of his deal (which he wouldn't... maybe, maybe he would take the same 5 Mil that PP is getting, but I doubt it. PP is going to play next year and make more money on top of that 5. If KG retired, this would be his last pay day... but if he did walk away from 100%...) we would still be at 56 Million and we wouldn't be signing anyone other then an MLE. Sorry.

[StojkoVrankovic]

Again, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in Celtic fans saying that the inclusion of Bledsoe should not be a deal-breaker from the Clippers' end, but the exclusion of Bledsoe absolutely should be from the Celtics' end.

It's not hypocrisy, is common sense, you take a negative value and 1-2 picks, too small price for 3 HOFer and the possibility to re-sign another HOFer, at least Bledsoe give us the only true value in this trade... He is not MJ but better than nothing.

No, it is hypocrisy. You (not necessarily you specifically, but you know what I mean) can't argue that Eric Bledsoe is far and away the most crucial piece you would be getting back from the Clippers in the trade on the one hand, while on the other hand acting surprised that the Clippers would be a little reluctant to include Eric Bledsoe in the trade.

Are you forgetting the reports that stated the Clippers would not be able to resign Bledsoe next season? He is not in their longterm future.

Jordan is not enough for KG, makes the team worse right now and not sure how adding a player with literally no offensive game could make us better down the line. We need a reason to make that trade and Bledose is his name-o

[jfs1000d]

Jordan only has two years on his deal... and isn't that bad! We might even want to keep him. If he was making 8 Mil a year instead of 10 Mil he would be considered a good deal. Good defensive Center.

I don't want Jordan, but above is true. I sat here one day after Jordan had 10 dunks in a game on us and listened to all the people whine about Danny passed in him or jr giddeons.

Now, Jordan, who is the same player he was back when he was loved, has a big contract and now he sucks. He hasn't changed, just his salary has.

2 years 22 million isn't terrible and long term IMO. He is about 3 mil per year overpaid. So what? That contract can easily be moved in a year or we just let an athletic rebound shot blocking center expire.

It is not like be is getting amare money. Besides, I would go after Eric Gordon.