Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[Red2]

I wanted the deal done since we were so far down the road but I didn't want it done if it was ridiculous and that's what it became. Sometimes things happen for a reason and I think this is one of them,. I think we may look back on this and say wow, am I glad I didn't do that. I would have loved to jump start the rebuilding but I would have missed KG for sure. Doc not so much. Initially I felt a sense of loss about doc leaving but as this thing dragged on I felt more and more that doc had burned all of his bridges. For the celts to say they'll take him back is taking the high road to say the least. As for the clipper fans its hard to explain to them what having a guy like KG means. I didn't understand it until he came here from the T Wolves. Two firsts plus an overpaid center who can't hit free throws is nothing for guy likeKG and what he could do for that team. He is the defensive center and glue to the team and he is a clutch scorer. Sure he's lost something but year in and year out the guy is in amazing shape. All the clips needed to do was find a banger down low ( hello perk) to put alongside KG and blake and you would have had a stud front line. But again how do you convince someone who's too busy counting his pennies and nickels when he should be looking at getting a championship for the Clippers.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Sometimes its not about trying to squeeze every drop out of the orange. Sometimes its about class.

And sometimes it's about a notoriously cheap owner pinching pennies..?

[IvyLeagueVet]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

[Marvel]

The worst thing in all this situation is that our board has turned into troll-land, 17 titles and still someone thinks he is entitled to talk about how Boston sucks and is undesirable...

Sssshh this guy has multiple connections to multiple sources.

No seriously, what a joke these troll fans are. Claiming NBA players don't like Boston.

[StojkoVrankovic]

Jackie Mac just said on Around the Horn that "according to her sources" Doc is prepared to come back and coach

[Marvel]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

And you know this how?

[ParticleMan]

You live in LA and watched the Clippers a few times and you're going to puff your chest out at a guy who hasn't missed a Clipper game in about 9 years? I'm well aware of DJ's shortcomings but to act like he's a NEGATIVE player is patently false and in opposition to facts. He's a 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 2 bpg PER 36 player who had the highest field goal percentage in the league and plays above average defense. His PER wasn't much worse than KG's this year at 17. Point is, overpaid like all decent centers yes. Very flawed and raw, yes. "Garbage", absolutely not. Unless you don't know the game of basketball and analyze the game on small sample sizes or what others tell you.

Right. which is why the Clips are so eager to dump him for a 37-year PF who would probably retire this offseason otherwise.

It's widely known the C's aren't even that interested in Jordan, it's just they need someone to match up salaries and DAJ is the expendable guy in ClipsLand.

Sorry, getting Jordan and the 25th pick in a weak draft is really neither here nor there. Maybe it's better than nothing, but I'd just as soon hold on to KG and see what offers come up at the trade deadline. Let Doc go sit in the broadcast booth if he wants.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Even if Doc leaves and does TV.. there will absolutely be a contender with a coaching vacancy willing to part with a comparable pick at SOME point over the next three years. Which means this current deal is basically a straight swap of KG for Jordan. Thats AWFUL.. I dont care if he's 25.. that does not help this team AT ALL.

That's where I am at. People are saying if this deal doesn't get done, they both leave for nothing. I agree with you, I think opportunities to get a similar return as the Clips offer would come up over the course of the next year+.

Or Doc can coach next year without his heart in it, then Danny has to fire him anyways...

Perfect. Doc sucks at coaching, the team loses, and we get a high draft pick. Everybody wins!!!

[ermocrate]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

And you know this how?

The mech gipsy at Coney Island told him...

[tombattor]

Honestly, I wanted the deal to get done, but we gotta get something back. Late first round pick and deandre Jordan at $13m or whatever aren't good enough. What's the point then? Dj is decent, but it's not like he's going to be one of our next championship core.

[AKFO]

Why don't we offer Bass and a first to SA for Popovic and Tim Duncan, look like an offer they can't turn down...

I think a better offer would be Melo and a first. Deandre Jordan was declared Melo's ceiling, correct?

[ermocrate]

Why don't we offer Bass and a first to SA for Popovic and Tim Duncan, look like an offer they can't turn down...

I think a better offer would be Melo and a first. Deandre Jordan was declared Melo's ceiling, correct?

Correct!

[StojkoVrankovic]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

And you know this how?

[jfs1000d]

KG isn't retiring and counting for a cap hit. He can sit out, and the Celtics don't have to pay him.

I repeat. If KG retires voluntarily, he forfeits his salary and if Boston doesn't want to let him out of contact, he has to wait a year to come back.

If KG gets bought out, and that's more likely, then we spread it over a couple of years and don't have a huge cap number.

Why do we have to turn KG into something we don't want?

DJ is just not that good.

[soxfan2003]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

If KG retires, I don't think he will count against the cap. Perhaps the Celtics offer KG a 5 million parting gift as a buyout for his retirement. Worst case the Celtics could by him out after next season for 6 million.

Celtics still come out perfectly fine and at least get KG to retire in Celtics green. And absence of DJ makes it even easier to lose games next year.

Doc leaves to TV for nothing is fine. Still have his contract rights for 3 more years.

The Celtics right now aren't a team that needs big contracts to make trades. They need draft picks... 1 pick isn't enough for KG/Doc and having to take on DJ.

Frankly I don't think 2 picks is fair value either but given what KG/PP/Rivers have meant to the franchise, I was fine with Ainge settling for that when push came to shove. 1 pick... the right response is to hang up the phone.

[tombattor]

KG isn't retiring and counting for a cap hit. He can sit out, and the Celtics don't have to pay him.

I repeat. If KG retires voluntarily, he forfeits his salary and if Boston doesn't want to let him out of contact, he has to wait a year to come back.

If KG gets bought out, and that's more likely, then we spread it over a couple of years and don't have a huge cap number.

Why do we have to turn KG into something we don't want?

DJ is just not that good.

Yeah. I don't understand why people are getting so upset over not doing the deal. Danny should not take crappy deals. It's his job to do what's best for the team, not just to make sure kg and doc go to the clippers.

[Andrew McCeltic]

At this point, the best-case for the Clippers is:

Pierce gets bought out, we amnesty Garnett, release Doc-
Both sign with LA, as does Doc.

Possible, but not probable- so we were basically reducing the risk for LA by dealing with them directly and enabling this mass f***ing defection.

Honestly, I think both teams probably negotiated badly because it's such an unusual scenario- not 'we trade you player x for player y' but 'we let our coach out of his contract and trade you a guy who would otherwise retire and then buy out another guy who will sign in an implicit package deal, & you give us one inferior but younger player and get a guarantee your superstar re-ups.'

How do you weigh the fairness of a trade in this case? It's extremely complex and head-scratching. It'll be interesting to see what the league consensus is, which from Wojnarowski so far sounds like 'Sterling is cheap.' But 'Ainge is ridiculous' is another opinion that gets batted around.

[Gant]

This doesn't hurt the Celtics much. They were in a bad position before. They're in the same position now. If Doc really wants to return, he can pull it off. He's that good interpersonally and with the media.

The Clippers though, might have wrecked their chance at keeping Chris Paul. If he goes, they're screwed. In fact, this thing could easily reignite if the Clippers end up facing this scenario.

[165bows]

You live in LA and watched the Clippers a few times and you're going to puff your chest out at a guy who hasn't missed a Clipper game in about 9 years? I'm well aware of DJ's shortcomings but to act like he's a NEGATIVE player is patently false and in opposition to facts. He's a 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 2 bpg PER 36 player who had the highest field goal percentage in the league and plays above average defense. His PER wasn't much worse than KG's this year at 17. Point is, overpaid like all decent centers yes. Very flawed and raw, yes. "Garbage", absolutely not. Unless you don't know the game of basketball and analyze the game on small sample sizes or what others tell you.

He doesn't play that kind of minutes. If you are citing his per 36 you are either missing a big shortcoming, or trying to hide it. Been referenced several times in this thread.

[IvyLeagueVet]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

And you know this how?

Precedence and logic...

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how the domino will falls.