"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[Envelope]

Do you guys think that Thon Maker is going to test out with a 23-24 inch standing vert? Or a 28 inch max vert? The guy's head is near or above the rim on almost every dunk and shot block. That's not an optical illusion, no matter what some people say.

The fact is nobody thought Thon Maker would be in this draft class, so they were totally unprepared for it, and they didn't do their homework.

One other thing: Dragan Bender being ranked 3rd isn't a case of Bender being really good, it's a case of this being a relatively weak draft class in the 3-10 range.

Hield? Limited athleticism, can't pass, can't create his own shot off the dribble drive at the NBA level. If his shot is off, he has nothing else to impact a game with.

Murray? Another limited athlete with unremarkable measurements. Limited defensive potential, and limited ability to create his own shot. I really like him, but he'll probably be a CJ McCollum level player who puts up points but gives up a fair amount as well. Sure that's a good player to have, but how much does it upgrade over Bradley, the two way player? Not much, if any.

There's no reason Thon Maker shouldn't be in the conversation for the 3rd pick, and when you look at team needs, Thon has everything we're looking for in a long term impact rim protector. In the short term, he can step in and be a defensive stud off the bench at PF. His standing reach is 7.5 inches higher than Jordan Mickey's.

Just some food for thought. Heart and toughness makes all the difference in the world for PFs and Cs. Just look at former #1 mock draft pick Skal Labissiere.

[Writebloc]

Don't ask these guys, they've never watched him. They just know he's ranked 3rd on Draft Express, so therefore he MUST be the guy we take at 3.

Or they could listen to you and blindly insist we take Thon Maker...

Also unnecessary. Guy likes Maker, it's his opinion and he's entitled to it

Thanks buddy, soooooooo glad you are here to police the sandbox. It's a message board, everyone has an opinion. Just in case you need some help in the comprehension department at no time did I write that he's not entitled to his opinion. The guy has made his point how many times and in how many threads? You better go admonish all the other posters that have been writing the same thing Hall Monitor...

[Homerclease]

Or they could listen to you and blindly insist we take Thon Maker...

Also unnecessary. Guy likes Maker, it's his opinion and he's entitled to it

Thanks buddy, soooooooo glad you are here to police the sandbox. It's a message board, everyone has an opinion. Just in case you need some help in the comprehension department at no time did I write that he's not entitled to his opinion. The guy has made his point how many times and in how many threads? You better go admonish all the other posters that have been writing the same thing Hall Monitor...

I haven't read them all yet so I can't really debate those points. Part of what makes this a very good forum is people can actually debate without slinging insults back and forth regardless of how their posts come across. There are other forums where nearly every thread devolves into a flame war with childish banter, this place is head and shoulders above the rest.

[Homerclease]

Do you guys think that Thon Maker is going to test out with a 23-24 inch standing vert? Or a 28 inch max vert? The guy's head is near or above the rim on almost every dunk and shot block. That's not an optical illusion, no matter what some people say.

The fact is nobody thought Thon Maker would be in this draft class, so they were totally unprepared for it, and they didn't do their homework.

One other thing: Dragan Bender being ranked 3rd isn't a case of Bender being really good, it's a case of this being a relatively weak draft class in the 3-10 range.

Hield? Limited athleticism, can't pass, can't create his own shot off the dribble drive at the NBA level. If his shot is off, he has nothing else to impact a game with.

Murray? Another limited athlete with unremarkable measurements. Limited defensive potential, and limited ability to create his own shot. I really like him, but he'll probably be a CJ McCollum level player who puts up points but gives up a fair amount as well. Sure that's a good player to have, but how much does it upgrade over Bradley, the two way player? Not much, if any.

There's no reason Thon Maker shouldn't be in the conversation for the 3rd pick, and when you look at team needs, Thon has everything we're looking for in a long term impact rim protector. In the short term, he can step in and be a defensive stud off the bench at PF. His standing reach is 7.5 inches higher than Jordan Mickey's.

Just some food for thought. Heart and toughness makes all the difference in the world for PFs and Cs. Just look at former #1 mock draft pick Skal Labissiere.

Let's say the Celtics have had this discussion, if they feel he's gonna be there at 23 or even 16 for that matter, why select him third? 2 great prospects are better than one no?

[Writebloc]

Also unnecessary. Guy likes Maker, it's his opinion and he's entitled to it

Thanks buddy, soooooooo glad you are here to police the sandbox. It's a message board, everyone has an opinion. Just in case you need some help in the comprehension department at no time did I write that he's not entitled to his opinion. The guy has made his point how many times and in how many threads? You better go admonish all the other posters that have been writing the same thing Hall Monitor...

I haven't read them all yet so I can't really debate those points. Part of what makes this a very good forum is people can actually debate without slinging insults back and forth regardless of how their posts come across. There are other forums where nearly every thread devolves into a flame war with childish banter, this place is head and shoulders above the rest.

So then go read up and let the moderators moderate...

[Shamrock]

Thon Maker with the Brooklyn pick makes me want to puke.

[Homerclease]

Thanks buddy, soooooooo glad you are here to police the sandbox. It's a message board, everyone has an opinion. Just in case you need some help in the comprehension department at no time did I write that he's not entitled to his opinion. The guy has made his point how many times and in how many threads? You better go admonish all the other posters that have been writing the same thing Hall Monitor...

I haven't read them all yet so I can't really debate those points. Part of what makes this a very good forum is people can actually debate without slinging insults back and forth regardless of how their posts come across. There are other forums where nearly every thread devolves into a flame war with childish banter, this place is head and shoulders above the rest.

So then go read up and let the moderators moderate...

I'll pass, I think the point has been made and this discussion is far from productive and anything else will just further derail this thread. Have a nice night

[cellar-door]

So Ryan Bernardoni posted this chart that breaks down the odds of each pick for each team:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/721167895565373440[/tweet]
Order of likelihood for the Brooklyn Pick
5th
4th
2nd
1st
3rd
6th.

About a 49% chance it's 4 or 5 and a 47% chance it is top 3.

[Envelope]

Do you guys think that Thon Maker is going to test out with a 23-24 inch standing vert? Or a 28 inch max vert? The guy's head is near or above the rim on almost every dunk and shot block. That's not an optical illusion, no matter what some people say.

The fact is nobody thought Thon Maker would be in this draft class, so they were totally unprepared for it, and they didn't do their homework.

One other thing: Dragan Bender being ranked 3rd isn't a case of Bender being really good, it's a case of this being a relatively weak draft class in the 3-10 range.

Hield? Limited athleticism, can't pass, can't create his own shot off the dribble drive at the NBA level. If his shot is off, he has nothing else to impact a game with.

Murray? Another limited athlete with unremarkable measurements. Limited defensive potential, and limited ability to create his own shot. I really like him, but he'll probably be a CJ McCollum level player who puts up points but gives up a fair amount as well. Sure that's a good player to have, but how much does it upgrade over Bradley, the two way player? Not much, if any.

There's no reason Thon Maker shouldn't be in the conversation for the 3rd pick, and when you look at team needs, Thon has everything we're looking for in a long term impact rim protector. In the short term, he can step in and be a defensive stud off the bench at PF. His standing reach is 7.5 inches higher than Jordan Mickey's.

Just some food for thought. Heart and toughness makes all the difference in the world for PFs and Cs. Just look at former #1 mock draft pick Skal Labissiere.

Let's say the Celtics have had this discussion, if they feel he's gonna be there at 23 or even 16 for that matter, why select him third? 2 great prospects are better than one no?

He's going to show up at the Combine, everybody is going to freak out at how tall and athletic he is, and he'll be a top 10 lock. Nobody expected him to declare, and nobody expected him to be permitted to enter the draft. What you're reading right now are the knee jerk reactions of guys who were unprepared for this, but who's job it is to be prepared and opine with authority. Nobody launches a prospect into lottery territory on a knee-jerk reaction when they were caught unprepared. Better to play it safe, downplay his talent and potential, and move him up in the mocks later.

Expect him to move up quickly as soon as teams get a closer look. Most of his games this year were camera free, by rules. So there isn't a lot of recent footage.

But he's as talented as has as much potential as anybody in this draft, Simmons and Ingram included.

The worst thing people can say about him is he's not as good as his Incredible mix tapes.

We're looking at the next KG, it's just that everybody is afraid to even think it. Kind of like how everybody is afraid to compare Ingram to Durant.

Maker is 225 already, about 10 lbs more than KG before his draft out of high school at age 19, same as Maker.
But Maker has another month of weight training before the Combine, so he'll probably get up to 230ish. At age 19 and 7'1 tall. Kristaps was 225ish when drafted, but got up to 240+ by the time the season started. Maker can get up to at least 235 by opening night. That's plenty strong enough to play PF in the NBA, when your reach is 7+ inches higher than the average PF and you relish physical play.

[Envelope]

Thon Maker with the Brooklyn pick makes me want to puke.

You'll change your tune within 3 days of the NBA Combine. Book it, and call me out if I'm wrong.

[Andrew McCeltic]

All that wheel talk is misguided, but you could go a long way to fix the draft just by tweaking the odds for every draft slot.

You could also add another layer of ambition and try to come up with an algorithm that takes other factors into account, like number of consecutive years in the lottery, W-L as opposed to just standings, etc.

Those odds also show you how ridiculous the Cavs' "luck" was in the post-Lebron era. That's a situation where the odds of a conspiracy having occurred might be higher than the odds of the supposed actual outcome.

[Shamrock]

Thon Maker with the Brooklyn pick makes me want to puke.

You'll change your tune within 3 days of the NBA Combine. Book it, and call me out if I'm wrong.

I highly doubt that, not interested in waiting 3-4 years to get an actual player. Maker might turn out to be a good pro but it's surely not gonna be out of the gate. Simmons/Ingram/Bender/Dunn over Maker 10/10 times. At least Bender knows how to play the game

[Andrew McCeltic]

Teams need to see Maker up close to get a sense of where his skills and learning curve are relative to his athleticism..

[Homerclease]

Do you guys think that Thon Maker is going to test out with a 23-24 inch standing vert? Or a 28 inch max vert? The guy's head is near or above the rim on almost every dunk and shot block. That's not an optical illusion, no matter what some people say.

The fact is nobody thought Thon Maker would be in this draft class, so they were totally unprepared for it, and they didn't do their homework.

One other thing: Dragan Bender being ranked 3rd isn't a case of Bender being really good, it's a case of this being a relatively weak draft class in the 3-10 range.

Hield? Limited athleticism, can't pass, can't create his own shot off the dribble drive at the NBA level. If his shot is off, he has nothing else to impact a game with.

Murray? Another limited athlete with unremarkable measurements. Limited defensive potential, and limited ability to create his own shot. I really like him, but he'll probably be a CJ McCollum level player who puts up points but gives up a fair amount as well. Sure that's a good player to have, but how much does it upgrade over Bradley, the two way player? Not much, if any.

There's no reason Thon Maker shouldn't be in the conversation for the 3rd pick, and when you look at team needs, Thon has everything we're looking for in a long term impact rim protector. In the short term, he can step in and be a defensive stud off the bench at PF. His standing reach is 7.5 inches higher than Jordan Mickey's.

Just some food for thought. Heart and toughness makes all the difference in the world for PFs and Cs. Just look at former #1 mock draft pick Skal Labissiere.

Let's say the Celtics have had this discussion, if they feel he's gonna be there at 23 or even 16 for that matter, why select him third? 2 great prospects are better than one no?

He's going to show up at the Combine, everybody is going to freak out at how tall and athletic he is, and he'll be a top 10 lock. Nobody expected him to declare, and nobody expected him to be permitted to enter the draft. What you're reading right now are the knee jerk reactions of guys who were unprepared for this, but who's job it is to be prepared and opine with authority. Nobody launches a prospect into lottery territory on a knee-jerk reaction when they were caught unprepared. Better to play it safe, downplay his talent and potential, and move him up in the mocks later.

Expect him to move up quickly as soon as teams get a closer look. Most of his games this year were camera free, by rules. So there isn't a lot of recent footage.

But he's as talented as has as much potential as anybody in this draft, Simmons and Ingram included.

The worst thing people can say about him is he's not as good as his Incredible mix tapes.

We're looking at the next KG, it's just that everybody is afraid to even think it. Kind of like how everybody is afraid to compare Ingram to Durant.

Maker is 225 already, about 10 lbs more than KG before his draft out of high school at age 19, same as Maker.
But Maker has another month of weight training before the Combine, so he'll probably get up to 230ish. At age 19 and 7'1 tall. Kristaps was 225ish when drafted, but got up to 240+ by the time the season started. Maker can get up to at least 235 by opening night. That's plenty strong enough to play PF in the NBA, when your reach is 7+ inches higher than the average PF and you relish physical play.

That doesn't answer my question.

[Envelope]

Thon Maker with the Brooklyn pick makes me want to puke.

You'll change your tune within 3 days of the NBA Combine. Book it, and call me out if I'm wrong.

I highly doubt that, not interested in waiting 3-4 years to get an actual player. Maker might turn out to be a good pro but it's surely not gonna be out of the gate. Simmons/Ingram/Bender/Dunn over Maker 10/10 times. At least Bender knows how to play the game

In Mid-October last fall, when Derrick Fisher announced that Porzingis would be the starting PF on Opening Night, most Knicks fans laughed, with the same certainty as you in this comment here.

People who say Thon Maker is years away are thinking of him strictly as a center, because he's over 7 feet tall. They don't even stop to think that he's close to NBA ready as a PF, with 5 months of NBA training before the season starts.

Maker is already 225 lbs. A year ago, which is a LONG time when you're 19, Maker out-rebounded Simmons, Ingram, and every other top prospect in the Nike Hoops Summit. And Maker did it in half the minutes of Simmons.

When people say Maker is years away, they're sure as F not talking about PF, and they're not talking about defense/rebounding.

Maker could step in and be an instant upgrade over Amir Johnson, playing a very similar limited role for the Celtics. Defense, rebounding, and scoring buckets in transition and on clean ups. In fact, Maker will probably be as good defensively as a rookie as Kristaps Porzingis. He's a little more athletic, works just as hard, and is just as tough.

Draft Express said Porzingis was years away from being a productive NBA player, just last May/June.

Only if you view him as a center, and not a Stud PF.

[Shamrock]

Spoiler:

You'll change your tune within 3 days of the NBA Combine. Book it, and call me out if I'm wrong.

I highly doubt that, not interested in waiting 3-4 years to get an actual player. Maker might turn out to be a good pro but it's surely not gonna be out of the gate. Simmons/Ingram/Bender/Dunn over Maker 10/10 times. At least Bender knows how to play the game

In Mid-October last fall, when Derrick Fisher announced that Porzingis would be the starting PF on Opening Night, most Knicks fans laughed, with the same certainty as you in this comment here.

People who say Thon Maker is years away are thinking of him strictly as a center, because he's over 7 feet tall. They don't even stop to think that he's close to NBA ready as a PF, with 5 months of NBA training before the season starts.

Maker is already 225 lbs. A year ago, which is a LONG time when you're 19, Maker out-rebounded Simmons, Ingram, and every other top prospect in the Nike Hoops Summit. And Maker did it in half the minutes of Simmons.

When people say Maker is years away, they're sure as F not talking about PF, and they're not talking about defense/rebounding.

Maker could step in and be an instant upgrade over Amir Johnson, playing a very similar limited role for the Celtics. Defense, rebounding, and scoring buckets in transition and on clean ups. In fact, Maker will probably be as good defensively as a rookie as Kristaps Porzingis. He's a little more athletic, works just as hard, and is just as tough.

Draft Express said Porzingis was years away from being a productive NBA player, just last May/June.

Only if you view him as a center, and not a Stud PF.

Remind me how did Maker do offensively in the Nike Poops Summit? So your pretty much saying we should waste arguably our best asset on a guy that will give us the same production as Amir Johnson? Why not just pick up Amir's option and then use the pick on someone who can put the ball in the hole? Hmmmm... sounds like a excellent plan. Don't even compare Staps and Maker, Staps had a great feel for the game and his shooting ability is on a completely different level than Maker. Staps has more length as well

[Leprechaun18]

Maker has some good things, but he also has small hands and drops passes. He has a place, but not in the top 10.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Maker has some good things, but he also has small hands and drops passes. He has a place, but not in the top 10.

Sounds like Kwame Brown in that way- who actually, after Michael Jordan broke him psychologically, developed into a pretty good defensive player the way you're describing Maker.

Remember we could also trade out to get someone like Noel or Okafor from Philly..

[Envelope]

Spoiler:

I highly doubt that, not interested in waiting 3-4 years to get an actual player. Maker might turn out to be a good pro but it's surely not gonna be out of the gate. Simmons/Ingram/Bender/Dunn over Maker 10/10 times. At least Bender knows how to play the game

In Mid-October last fall, when Derrick Fisher announced that Porzingis would be the starting PF on Opening Night, most Knicks fans laughed, with the same certainty as you in this comment here.

People who say Thon Maker is years away are thinking of him strictly as a center, because he's over 7 feet tall. They don't even stop to think that he's close to NBA ready as a PF, with 5 months of NBA training before the season starts.

Maker is already 225 lbs. A year ago, which is a LONG time when you're 19, Maker out-rebounded Simmons, Ingram, and every other top prospect in the Nike Hoops Summit. And Maker did it in half the minutes of Simmons.

When people say Maker is years away, they're sure as F not talking about PF, and they're not talking about defense/rebounding.

Maker could step in and be an instant upgrade over Amir Johnson, playing a very similar limited role for the Celtics. Defense, rebounding, and scoring buckets in transition and on clean ups. In fact, Maker will probably be as good defensively as a rookie as Kristaps Porzingis. He's a little more athletic, works just as hard, and is just as tough.

Draft Express said Porzingis was years away from being a productive NBA player, just last May/June.

Only if you view him as a center, and not a Stud PF.

Remind me how did Maker do offensively in the Nike Poops Summit? So your pretty much saying we should waste arguably our best asset on a guy that will give us the same production as Amir Johnson? Why not just pick up Amir's option and then use the pick on someone who can put the ball in the hole? Hmmmm... sounds like a excellent plan. Don't even compare Staps and Maker, Staps had a great feel for the game and his shooting ability is on a completely different level than Maker. Staps has more length as well

Your reading comprehension is dubious. "Maker could step in and be an instant upgrade over Amir Johnson"

Maker would be a work in progress offensively but still get double digit points as a rookie.

Keep sleeping on him. Porzingis might be longer, but not by much. Maker is longer than Shaq, and he's the same as DeAndre Jordan. Standing reach 9'5.5", or 5.5" higher than Anthony Davis. And he doesn't even appear to be finished growing yet.

Maker is the best defensive big in this draft. He's just not a full-fledged center yet, he's a PF.

I hope you were able to comprehend some of the above.

[Andrew McCeltic]

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/thon-maker-draft-decision-what-you-need-to-know-041416

Maker is 7-footer who can do everything from handle the ball to shoot 3s to post up in the paint. Some even once compared him to Kevin Durant, but those comparisons eventually stopped because his skill is somewhat similar to what it was three years ago (allowing peers to catch up) and he hasn't gained any weight, still weighing barely over 200 pounds.

That raises questions about why he is actually deciding to go pro. Some suggest Maker purposely skipped college basketball to avoid the risk of getting exposed against bigger and stronger players. Nobody knows where Maker will get draft -- DraftExpress.com (widely considered to be the industry leader) has him going in the second round -- but he will almost certainly begin his career in the D-League.