A lot of Celtics Trash rumors part 3

[BlackThatch]

A Westbrook/Crowder/Blake/Horford (with some random SG) and IT as 6th man would put the Celtics right there with CLE with a shot against GSW

Don't forget Mr ThisIsWhyImHere

[ShermansShoes]

FWIW, I have no sources directly with the Celtics. I believe others here do, but I do not. And no, that is not a CYA move. I really don't.

This might be a silly question. But do OKC and the Clips both know what Danny is trying to do? And if so, does that raise the asking price from both teams?

[chrisab123]

Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

Alright. If this does actually happen and in a vacuum it is possible. Very very unlikely but possible then they are the EC Favorites and perhaps on par with Golden State if they keep Brown. Despite the fact that perimeter defense takes a huge hit.

So I would assume that Horford is the Center in this deal. While Blake plays PF and Crowder plays SF. Westbrook is the PG and Bradley is the SG...then they keep IT, Brown and add Pierce? Is that correct? If it happened then I wouldn't see any reason why "GOATBrook" and Blake wouldn't stay in Boston past this season. The ability to be able to give them a 5 year max plays a big role here. Even if they only do the 1+1 deal. But that's a rotation above that's 8 deep. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Won't happen. But not bad at all.

[Smitty731]

No they would not keep both Brown and Crowder. One of the other would go, if not both.

[chrisab123]

No they would not keep both Brown and Crowder. One of the other would go, if not both.

Hmm then that makes it interesting. Who plays the 3? Pierce is too old to play 20 minutes a night.

[rickrolled]

Based on Smittys sources, quick math.

Horford - 26540100
Blake - 23161965
Westbrook - 17769374
Thomas - 6587132
Bradley - 8269663
Crowder - 6286408
Olynyk - 3094013
Rozier - 1906440
Brown - 4743000
Pierce - 3527920
Placehold - 543471
Placehold - 543471

Total - 98230317

Now correct me if i'm wrong, the cap is 94,143,000 and we will exceed the cap. Browns hold is 3592500 and if he signs to 120% of the rookie scale it goes up to 4.74 million. Can we exceed the cap post trade if we got under it to sign Horford ? If we stayed under the luxury tax ? CBA people here ?

[OFWGKTA]

It's fine rickrolled

[Smitty731]

Here are things to watch for over the next day or so:

1. Does Brown sign his Rookie Scale deal? That would take him off the table for a trade for 30 days. Not a deal ender, but that would hit in the middle of the Olympics and no one wants that.

2. Do some key vets, including guys who played for Boston previously, sign deals taking them off the market?

3. Do the Celtics, Clippers or Thunder fill out their remaining roster spots?

If the answer to all of the above is "No" then there is a good possibility something is happening. If the answer to any is "Yes" it doesn't end things, but makes it all a little trickier.

[Bar Fight]

If Blake and Westbrook stay, their window is longer than the Cavs. By at least a couple of years. LeBron James is amazing, but that team isn't likely to be any better than they were this year at any point coming soon.

Lebron is already so much better than those guys and more durable, that even if he declines a little earlier the Cavs will still be tough to beat. Especially considering they have another superstar younger than both Blake and Russ.

[OFWGKTA]

Kyrie plays well in a few finals games now he's a superstar weird

[BlackThatch]

I'm equally hyped about Pierce as I am about Westbrook and/or Griffin.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOUCVAdQu3A[/youtube]

[Fencer reregistered]

I am literally blown away that people wouldn't trade two unknown picks for two top 10 guys in the league. That is borderline insane to me. I can't understand that mindset at all.

Also, FWIW, the Celtics owners have indicated they will pay the tax without an issue to build and keep a title contender together and to add to it. That isn't news. That is publicly reported, but some people are ignoring.

One big part of the issue is rentals.

Another part is concern as to whether Griffin is as good as you say, or whether his health has eroded.

As for luxury tax -- I basically agree. It eventually screws up roster building, so you postpone getting into it for as many years as you can. But eventually you play it without blinking.

[Smitty731]

Based on Smittys sources, quick math.

Horford - 26540100
Blake - 23161965
Westbrook - 17769374
Thomas - 6587132
Bradley - 8269663
Crowder - 6286408
Olynyk - 3094013
Rozier - 1906440
Brown - 4743000
Pierce - 3527920
Placehold - 543471
Placehold - 543471

Total - 98230317

Now correct me if i'm wrong, the cap is 94,143,000 and we will exceed the cap. Browns hold is 3592500 and if he signs to 120% of the rookie scale it goes up to 4.74 million. Can we exceed the cap post trade if we got under it to sign Horford ? If we stayed under the luxury tax ? CBA people here ?

Yes you can go over the cap.

Nothing prevents the team from going over the Tax line. And nothing they have done would make them hard capped at the Tax Apron either.

And remember, because of the trade rules, you can exceed the cap. You can take in more money than you send out and vice versa. That is a minor motivation for LAC to stay under the Hard Cap, which they are pushing up against.

[VeryMuchWoke]

I am literally blown away that people wouldn't trade two unknown picks for two top 10 guys in the league. That is borderline insane to me. I can't understand that mindset at all.

Also, FWIW, the Celtics owners have indicated they will pay the tax without an issue to build and keep a title contender together and to add to it. That isn't news. That is publicly reported, but some people are ignoring.

I haven't seen a single person have an issue with giving up both BK picks. I have an issue with giving up BK picks along with Smart/Crowder/Brown.

The Celtics owners are willing to spend into the tax, but that may not be an option in the next CBA. Teams could be hard-capped or if they do away with max contracts we could only keep one of the two. CBA risk is significant and nobody seems to be willing to even acknowledge it.

[lon3lytoaster]

Based on Smittys sources, quick math.

Horford - 26540100
Blake - 23161965
Westbrook - 17769374
Thomas - 6587132
Bradley - 8269663
Crowder - 6286408
Olynyk - 3094013
Rozier - 1906440
Brown - 4743000
Pierce - 3527920
Placehold - 543471
Placehold - 543471

Total - 98230317

Now correct me if i'm wrong, the cap is 94,143,000 and we will exceed the cap. Browns hold is 3592500 and if he signs to 120% of the rookie scale it goes up to 4.74 million. Can we exceed the cap post trade if we got under it to sign Horford ? If we stayed under the luxury tax ? CBA people here ?

That 94-95M cap isn't really the cap. It's a soft cap and we can receive up to 125% of salaries sent out in trade. Being a small amount like 4-6M over isn't really an issue in the NBA. I believe as of now we're under a million below the cap and we have an exception to sign Jaylen regardless of our cap situation pretty much.

Edit* auto correct butchered the first sentence.

Hope that answers your question.

[rickrolled]

Based on Smittys sources, quick math.

Horford - 26540100
Blake - 23161965
Westbrook - 17769374
Thomas - 6587132
Bradley - 8269663
Crowder - 6286408
Olynyk - 3094013
Rozier - 1906440
Brown - 4743000
Pierce - 3527920
Placehold - 543471
Placehold - 543471

Total - 98230317

Now correct me if i'm wrong, the cap is 94,143,000 and we will exceed the cap. Browns hold is 3592500 and if he signs to 120% of the rookie scale it goes up to 4.74 million. Can we exceed the cap post trade if we got under it to sign Horford ? If we stayed under the luxury tax ? CBA people here ?

Also like to add, this is after renouncing Datomes hold, and stashing Yabusele, Zizic overseas etc..

Plus Smitty you did say Amir, Zeller (s/t), BKN pick plus one other first "and/or" Brown ? So I held onto Brown.

As far as OKC, I didn't get a repky from you if it's a 3 team trade or 2 seperate deals, so we trade Hunter, Mickey, Young, Jerebko, Smart to OKC.

[Smitty731]

I am literally blown away that people wouldn't trade two unknown picks for two top 10 guys in the league. That is borderline insane to me. I can't understand that mindset at all.

Also, FWIW, the Celtics owners have indicated they will pay the tax without an issue to build and keep a title contender together and to add to it. That isn't news. That is publicly reported, but some people are ignoring.

I haven't seen a single person have an issue with giving up both BK picks. I have an issue with giving up BK picks along with Smart/Crowder/Brown.

The Celtics owners are willing to spend into the tax, but that may not be an option in the next CBA. Teams could be hard-capped or if they do away with max contracts we could only keep one of the two. CBA risk is significant and nobody seems to be willing to even acknowledge it.

The NBPA will have a hard strike if they go to a hard cap or do away with max contracts. I can assure that isn't anything they will consider. And they have already taken measures to take care of players if things get ugly and they need to stay out.

More important, if you talk to enough people, everyone on both sides knows things are too good right now for everyone for a major work stoppage to happen. Adam Silver doesn't like super teams, but the majority of owners don't really care. A vast majority of owners.

[Bar Fight]

Kyrie plays well in a few finals games now he's a superstar weird

Well for one, he played well all Playoffs. Two, he's already had 2-3 great seasons previous to this one (where he was injured for half the year). Kyrie is quite easily a superstar. Denying this is just being a homer.

[Fencer reregistered]

Based on Smittys sources, quick math.

Horford - 26540100
Blake - 23161965
Westbrook - 17769374
Thomas - 6587132
Bradley - 8269663
Crowder - 6286408
Olynyk - 3094013
Rozier - 1906440
Brown - 4743000
Pierce - 3527920
Placehold - 543471
Placehold - 543471

Total - 98230317

Now correct me if i'm wrong, the cap is 94,143,000 and we will exceed the cap. Browns hold is 3592500 and if he signs to 120% of the rookie scale it goes up to 4.74 million. Can we exceed the cap post trade if we got under it to sign Horford ? If we stayed under the luxury tax ? CBA people here ?

It's fine to be over the cap post-trade, if you followed the rule for salary out being sufficient to balance salary in. Basically, you need to send out 80% of what you take in, but you can subtract $100K of wiggle room from the amount in first. (Actually, it's a somewhat sliding scale from 66.7% to 80%, but this trade would be in the 80% range.)

One nit -- unless the rules changed while I wasn't looking, Brown counts against the cap unsigned, but he doesn't count as outgoing salary in a trade if he isn't signed yet.

[kc11]

both brooklyn picks and half of the team for griffin and westbrook without any guarantees? well that reminds me of, wait... brooklyn nets? billy king?