Tatum and Brown, as 1-2 Options

[sam_I_am]

yeah we will have tatum locked up probably at the max next year, and JB will start his sub-max deal for another 4 years. that, mi amigos, is called a foundation.

No Smart, no Hayward, a deplete center roster to throw at Drummond and the two Js lead a rout in a game Kemba scores 1 point. Very impressive ..... it’s the kind of thing Simmons and Embiid have been doing.

Against an 11-19 team. Simmons is an all star already and Embiid was an MVP candidate.

Tatum and Brown aren't yet ready to be the foundation pieces of a contender. Kemba and Hayward are still our best two players. Until these two guys surpass both of them, I'm not ready to say they are the foundation of this team's success yet.

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Those guys are both on max deals and are older and they made their bones beating up weaker teams too. Baby steps...it’s all I’m saying. Jaylen and Jayson were featured players that beat Simmons and Embiid in 5 games 2 years ago when it mattered most and Tatum was highest scorer .....let’s not forget that.

[Big Joke Line]

Before the other thread was closed it was argued JB has no elite skills and it was disputed athleticism is a skill and JB is elite. I’d also argue body control is a skill and he’s becoming elite in that area as well.

[Jaqua92]

No Smart, no Hayward, a deplete center roster to throw at Drummond and the two Js lead a rout in a game Kemba scores 1 point. Very impressive ..... it’s the kind of thing Simmons and Embiid have been doing.

Against an 11-19 team. Simmons is an all star already and Embiid was an MVP candidate.

Tatum and Brown aren't yet ready to be the foundation pieces of a contender. Kemba and Hayward are still our best two players. Until these two guys surpass both of them, I'm not ready to say they are the foundation of this team's success yet.

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There are a lot of great combos in the NBA - Simmons and Embiid aren't one of them. Individually, both guys are really good at certain aspects of the game, together, they don't work that well. Neither Simmons nor Embiid have an all-around game, so they need someone to help them where they aren't good, Neither of them do that for each other. I would much rather base my team's future on Brown and Tatum, then on Simmons and Embiid.

Embiid has the most talent. But I'm talking about right now. Brown and Tatum aren't yet the two best players on the team.

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[Jaqua92]

No Smart, no Hayward, a deplete center roster to throw at Drummond and the two Js lead a rout in a game Kemba scores 1 point. Very impressive ..... it’s the kind of thing Simmons and Embiid have been doing.

Against an 11-19 team. Simmons is an all star already and Embiid was an MVP candidate.

Tatum and Brown aren't yet ready to be the foundation pieces of a contender. Kemba and Hayward are still our best two players. Until these two guys surpass both of them, I'm not ready to say they are the foundation of this team's success yet.

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Those guys are both on max deals and are older and they made their bones beating up weaker teams too. Baby steps...it’s all I’m saying. Jaylen and Jayson were featured players that beat Simmons and Embiid in 5 games 2 years ago when it mattered most and Tatum was highest scorer .....let’s not forget that.

I'm talking about right now. Sure. Baby steps. They can be a foundation duo to for a contender. But they aren't right now, neither of them is a #2 for a contender yet. I'm just saying I'm not ready to call them future contender 1&2s until they look like 2s, or 2 and 3s. That's all.

FWIW, Tatum has regressed as a shooter since then, and even though his shot has been better, he's still ineffecient.

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[Jaqua92]

No Smart, no Hayward, a deplete center roster to throw at Drummond and the two Js lead a rout in a game Kemba scores 1 point. Very impressive ..... it’s the kind of thing Simmons and Embiid have been doing.

Against an 11-19 team. Simmons is an all star already and Embiid was an MVP candidate.

Tatum and Brown aren't yet ready to be the foundation pieces of a contender. Kemba and Hayward are still our best two players. Until these two guys surpass both of them, I'm not ready to say they are the foundation of this team's success yet.

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Philly is not, and has never been a contender with Simmons and Embiid

Never said they were.

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[31to6]

Against an 11-19 team. Simmons is an all star already and Embiid was an MVP candidate.

Tatum and Brown aren't yet ready to be the foundation pieces of a contender. Kemba and Hayward are still our best two players. Until these two guys surpass both of them, I'm not ready to say they are the foundation of this team's success yet.

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Those guys are both on max deals and are older and they made their bones beating up weaker teams too. Baby steps...it’s all I’m saying. Jaylen and Jayson were featured players that beat Simmons and Embiid in 5 games 2 years ago when it mattered most and Tatum was highest scorer .....let’s not forget that.

I'm talking about right now. Sure. Baby steps. They can be a foundation duo to for a contender. But they aren't right now, neither of them is a #2 for a contender yet. I'm just saying I'm not ready to call them future contender 1&2s until they look like 2s, or 2 and 3s. That's all.

FWIW, Tatum has regressed as a shooter since then, and even though his shot has been better, he's still ineffecient.

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Yup Tatum's pretty bad
JB and JT are cornerstones for the team with the 3rd best record and 3rd best point differential in the league.
Two years ago they were our leading scorers through three rounds of the playoffs.
Best part is I don't think they care what others think, they've got confidence and work ethic.

[Jaqua92]

Those guys are both on max deals and are older and they made their bones beating up weaker teams too. Baby steps...it’s all I’m saying. Jaylen and Jayson were featured players that beat Simmons and Embiid in 5 games 2 years ago when it mattered most and Tatum was highest scorer .....let’s not forget that.

I'm talking about right now. Sure. Baby steps. They can be a foundation duo to for a contender. But they aren't right now, neither of them is a #2 for a contender yet. I'm just saying I'm not ready to call them future contender 1&2s until they look like 2s, or 2 and 3s. That's all.

FWIW, Tatum has regressed as a shooter since then, and even though his shot has been better, he's still ineffecient.

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Yup Tatum's pretty bad
JB and JT are cornerstones for the team with the 3rd best record and 3rd best point differential in the league.
Two years ago they were our leading scorers through three rounds of the playoffs.
Best part is I don't think they care what others think, they've got confidence and work ethic.

Kemba and Hayward are the superior players. Even with JT's night tonight.

That said, JT is showing signs of taking the next step and he will probably be this team's best player next year. He needs to play within himself.

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[31to6]

I'm talking about right now. Sure. Baby steps. They can be a foundation duo to for a contender. But they aren't right now, neither of them is a #2 for a contender yet. I'm just saying I'm not ready to call them future contender 1&2s until they look like 2s, or 2 and 3s. That's all.

FWIW, Tatum has regressed as a shooter since then, and even though his shot has been better, he's still ineffecient.

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Yup Tatum's pretty bad
JB and JT are cornerstones for the team with the 3rd best record and 3rd best point differential in the league.
Two years ago they were our leading scorers through three rounds of the playoffs.
Best part is I don't think they care what others think, they've got confidence and work ethic.

Kemba and Hayward are the superior players. Even with JT's night tonight.

That said, JT is showing signs of taking the next step and he will probably be this team's best player next year. He needs to play within himself.

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Let's get that message to him ASAP. Or let him continue to expand his game, seems like a good idea.
Meanwhile and unfortunately Hayward's approaching late career Bill Walton territory, so we kind of need 23-year-old JB and 19-year-old JT to play like total studs, which they are.

[zoyathedestroya]

Wish Tatum was more charismatic and didn't have such a flat affect. He'd be more marketable as a superstar.

[zoyathedestroya]

# of 15-5-5 games, Jaylen's 1st 241 career games: 0
# of 15-5-5 games, Jaylen's last 5 career games: 3

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Career-high for Tatum

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[GuyClinch]

Wish Tatum was more charismatic and didn't have such a flat affect. He'd be more marketable as a superstar.

Why do we want our stars marketable? Wouldn't it be best if they were all Tim Duncan - super boring but super efficient?! Tatum's game is very flashy as is - so he is still going to cost a lot.

[UHar_Vinnie]

Wish Tatum was more charismatic and didn't have such a flat affect. He'd be more marketable as a superstar.

Only if JT had the personality of Kyrie or Toine . . . . ground is the limit.

[Slax]

Wish Tatum was more charismatic and didn't have such a flat affect. He'd be more marketable as a superstar.

Why do we want our stars marketable? Wouldn't it be best if they were all Tim Duncan - super boring but super efficient?! Tatum's game is very flashy as is - so he is still going to cost a lot.

I don't necessarily know about "marketable" in dollar terms, but it's important to have the types of players that other players want to team up with in the modern NBA, or at least to be able to market your city to those types of players. Not to say nobody wants to team up with Tatum, but I don't know if he has any special draw to him. Duncan played in a different time when it was less common for the best players to steer their way into whichever teams they choose and decide their own trade destinations, so now there's a much bigger premium on making your team a desirable location for potential free agents and trade targets.

[Homerclease]

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[5InOfLouisville]

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That's interesting. JT was getting to the basket with ease, but seemed to almost take the layup for granted instead of going up strong. It seems like he'd do the work early and then just try to finesse it in a bit lazily. Now he's gathering, planting, and finishing with aggression. I don't see any reason why this trend won't continue.

JT keeps showing flashes, and i just try not to get too high. But it certainly seems like the sky's the limit.

[azee2890]

No Smart, no Hayward, a deplete center roster to throw at Drummond and the two Js lead a rout in a game Kemba scores 1 point. Very impressive ..... it’s the kind of thing Simmons and Embiid have been doing.

Against an 11-19 team. Simmons is an all star already and Embiid was an MVP candidate.

Tatum and Brown aren't yet ready to be the foundation pieces of a contender. Kemba and Hayward are still our best two players. Until these two guys surpass both of them, I'm not ready to say they are the foundation of this team's success yet.

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Those guys are both on max deals and are older and they made their bones beating up weaker teams too. Baby steps...it’s all I’m saying. Jaylen and Jayson were featured players that beat Simmons and Embiid in 5 games 2 years ago when it mattered most and Tatum was highest scorer .....let’s not forget that.

Also keep in mind that the Celtics FO never invested their future plans into JT and JB nearly as much as the Sixers did with BS and Embiid. If they were given this type of autonomy to develop during year 1 and year 2, they could be much further along in their career paths. Instead, they brought in Hayward and Irving and immediately stifled their development. That's the problem with star chasing instead of "trusting the process". Ainge always saw JT and JB as AD bait. He's only recently been forced to trust them to be the foundation and they have shown huge promise.

[Feed Your Head]

Jaylen up to 18 in RPM, Tatum still 5th. So we have two young guys who aren't just high volume scorers, but are also putting up elite impact stats as well.

[Slax]

Against an 11-19 team. Simmons is an all star already and Embiid was an MVP candidate.

Tatum and Brown aren't yet ready to be the foundation pieces of a contender. Kemba and Hayward are still our best two players. Until these two guys surpass both of them, I'm not ready to say they are the foundation of this team's success yet.

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Those guys are both on max deals and are older and they made their bones beating up weaker teams too. Baby steps...it’s all I’m saying. Jaylen and Jayson were featured players that beat Simmons and Embiid in 5 games 2 years ago when it mattered most and Tatum was highest scorer .....let’s not forget that.

Also keep in mind that the Celtics FO never invested their future plans into JT and JB nearly as much as the Sixers did with BS and Embiid. If they were given this type of autonomy to develop during year 1 and year 2, they could be much further along in their career paths. Instead, they brought in Hayward and Irving and immediately stifled their development. That's the problem with star chasing instead of "trusting the process". Ainge always saw JT and JB as AD bait. He's only recently been forced to trust them to be the foundation and they have shown huge promise.

Kind of difficult to compare career trajectories directly like that. Embiid and Simmons were more polished and highly touted products than Tatum and Brown coming into their drafts, and they were sidelined for their first 1-2 years while given the opportunity to practice with their team before they got to take the reins. It's true that we had too many cooks in the kitchen last year and didn't give Tatum and Brown enough opportunities to stand out. It's also true that they came into the league very young and unpolished, they got a lot of opportunities to play basketball on playoff teams from the get go, the FO never gave up on them and traded them even when they had the opportunity to rent MVP-level talent and make a run at a championship, and they are both coming along nicely and playing well right now. I'm not saying there isn't a counterfactual where they're both playing better right now, especially considering last season when we didn't necessarily see all the immediate progress we were hoping for, but overall I mainly just feel like Embiid and Simmons were more ready for NBA basketball right out of the gate.

And even then, I'm not sure Simmons is a great example of a player being lifted to greatness by early experience, considering he seems to be stalling in development this season similar to how Jaylen stalled last season. I think he will eventually address those weaknesses and become a great player, but he still needs some time too.

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[SmartWentCrazy]

Jaylen up to 18 in RPM, Tatum still 5th. So we have two young guys who aren't just high volume scorers, but are also putting up elite impact stats as well.

Jaylens continued development extending into this season is shocking, even for someone like me who was very high on the player. The passing vision he’s flashed this month has come out of nowhere. If he can get up to 3APG, I’ll really bullish on him making multiple all star games.

[sam_I_am]

Against an 11-19 team. Simmons is an all star already and Embiid was an MVP candidate.

Tatum and Brown aren't yet ready to be the foundation pieces of a contender. Kemba and Hayward are still our best two players. Until these two guys surpass both of them, I'm not ready to say they are the foundation of this team's success yet.

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Those guys are both on max deals and are older and they made their bones beating up weaker teams too. Baby steps...it’s all I’m saying. Jaylen and Jayson were featured players that beat Simmons and Embiid in 5 games 2 years ago when it mattered most and Tatum was highest scorer .....let’s not forget that.

I'm talking about right now. Sure. Baby steps. They can be a foundation duo to for a contender. But they aren't right now, neither of them is a #2 for a contender yet. I'm just saying I'm not ready to call them future contender 1&2s until they look like 2s, or 2 and 3s. That's all.

FWIW, Tatum has regressed as a shooter since then, and even though his shot has been better, he's still ineffecient.

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If they are not, then Simmons and Embiid aren’t either (which is true) Brown and Tatum completely outplayed and outscored the other two in that playoff. And they are younger.