Fire Brad Stevens.

[cloverleaf]

Responsibility for this disappointing season falls squarely on the players. After covid, Tatum spared his energy and wind for the offensive end. As for Brown, too few assists, too many turnovers. Kemba: no defense whatsoever. Timelord: made of glass. Williams: took three steps backwards. Smart: too many ill advised treys... And the list goes on.

Stevens usually put them in a position to win but the effort wasn't there, and as I've said before, exchanging Theis for Fournier was an absolute disaster. That falls on Ainge, not Stevens.

Shipping out Theis was no doubt an ownership, $-saving move rather than a GM decision. Probably also why Danny didn't ask Brad about it before going ahead. (But did Stevens resent it, because he couldn't appeal to Wyc and Danny to find another way to get what they wanted financially?) And I'd say both JT and JB were far too much about maximizing their stats for All-Star (and now, for JT, All-NBA) purposes: selfish, self-absorbed play. That predated and IMO was separate from JT's Covid diagnosis.

I will say, however, this team wasn't going anywhere anyway, even with Theis--and it is quite possible that Fournier will be an important piece for a more successful season next year.

Don't get the crying about Theis. Dude was not nearly the player he was last year. Celtics did what all well-run franchises do. They got Theis' peak years for a bargain price, then moved on before the price went way up.

Theis is actually an example of highly effective NBA management

Had they played him through the year and then not overpaid him in the offseason, Danny would have been blamed for not getting anything for him.

[Fencer reregistered]

In his postgame interview yesterday, Brad was already pre-emptively using the "Don't blame me, look at the size of the team Danny gave me!" excuse for their Wizards play-in opponent.

He's been bemoaning the length comparison between the Cs and other teams all season.

[31to6]

In his postgame interview yesterday, Brad was already pre-emptively using the "Don't blame me, look at the size of the team Danny gave me!" excuse for their Wizards play-in opponent.

He's been bemoaning the length comparison between the Cs and other teams all season.

5'11" starting PG
5'9" bench PG

6'3" starting SG
5'11" bench SG

two 6'8" 'starting' centers (I know RW has great wingspan, but still)
one 6'6" backup center

it is odd. I presume Danny feels these are talented players who make an impact in a variety of ways and wouldn't have been available had they had prototypical height. I don't disagree, but when you keep doing it, you do tie the hands of your coach.

Then again, that coach could start Smart/Fournier/JB/JT/Kornet if he wanted more height.

In any case, if Brad starts talking about 'shopping for the groceries' Imma really struggle with it!

[JHTruth]

Shipping out Theis was no doubt an ownership, $-saving move rather than a GM decision. Probably also why Danny didn't ask Brad about it before going ahead. (But did Stevens resent it, because he couldn't appeal to Wyc and Danny to find another way to get what they wanted financially?) And I'd say both JT and JB were far too much about maximizing their stats for All-Star (and now, for JT, All-NBA) purposes: selfish, self-absorbed play. That predated and IMO was separate from JT's Covid diagnosis.

I will say, however, this team wasn't going anywhere anyway, even with Theis--and it is quite possible that Fournier will be an important piece for a more successful season next year.

Don't get the crying about Theis. Dude was not nearly the player he was last year. Celtics did what all well-run franchises do. They got Theis' peak years for a bargain price, then moved on before the price went way up.

Theis is actually an example of highly effective NBA management

Had they played him through the year and then not overpaid him in the offseason, Danny would have been blamed for not getting anything for him.

The only thing they should have done differently is sell high on Theis before the season. I'll bet his trade value would have been much higher..

[BostonCouchGM]

I don't think people realize how happy our owners are and how ludicrous it is to expect changes. Danny and Brad are providing exactly what they're being paid for i.e. get to the playoffs, make the owners millions for each hosted playoff game, fill the stands while doing so and staying out of the luxury and repeater tax. The only way they could be doing a better job would be to actually make the Finals so at minimum they get to host a couple Final's games. Why would they want to change anything at this point? That said, if/when Tatum forces a trade because he doesn't want to waste his prime years not having a chance to win a chip, and Danny is incapable of rebuilding quickly, they'll make wholesale changes. I think the earliest this happens is 2023. But remember, Danny will likely trade Brown and/or Tatum for another war chest so he'll be armed with assets to rebuild. And as long as that rebuild has promise, Danny won't leave. I do think Brad won't want to remain for that though so he probably chooses to leave once this current run ends.

[ParticleMan]

^^ the celtics have paid luxury tax for 7 years, out of (i think) 10 years it's been in place. this is 5th in the league, behind the knicks who have paid it every year, mavs, lakers, and cavs. hornets and pels are the only teams never to pay it.

it's 100% false to say that the owners have not been willing to pay the luxury tax.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/11/16/how-many-times-has-each-nba-team-paid-the-luxury-tax/

edit: this is up to 2018. but i know the C's have also paid it the last two years, since that it why they would be in the repeater tax if they paid again this year.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

I don't think people realize how happy our owners are and how ludicrous it is to expect changes. Danny and Brad are providing exactly what they're being paid for i.e. get to the playoffs, make the owners millions for each hosted playoff game, fill the stands while doing so and staying out of the luxury and repeater tax. The only way they could be doing a better job would be to actually make the Finals so at minimum they get to host a couple Final's games. Why would they want to change anything at this point? That said, if/when Tatum forces a trade because he doesn't want to waste his prime years not having a chance to win a chip, and Danny is incapable of rebuilding quickly, they'll make wholesale changes. I think the earliest this happens is 2023. But remember, Danny will likely trade Brown and/or Tatum for another war chest so he'll be armed with assets to rebuild. And as long as that rebuild has promise, Danny won't leave. I do think Brad won't want to remain for that though so he probably chooses to leave once this current run ends.

This is the only post you've ever made that makes 100 percent sense. Nice work

[GoGreen]

^^ the celtics have paid luxury tax for 7 years, out of (i think) 10 years it's been in place. this is 5th in the league, behind the knicks who have paid it every year, mavs, lakers, and cavs. hornets and pels are the only teams never to pay it.

it's 100% false to say that the owners have not been willing to pay the luxury tax.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/11/16/how-many-times-has-each-nba-team-paid-the-luxury-tax/

edit: this is up to 2018. but i know the C's have also paid it the last two years, since that it why they would be in the repeater tax if they paid again this year.

Ehh.. there is truth to the article here, but they've paid only when the team was contending, IE the KG years. Since 2013? Only once. No bueno. I'll give them this: they probably would've been willing had ky/hay/horf or kd/ad worked out. But yea... still not letting them off the hook. If we don't bring the heat as fans, they'll get complacent imo. They also don't seem to go that far into the tax compared to others, too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/tax/

[JHTruth]

^^ the celtics have paid luxury tax for 7 years, out of (i think) 10 years it's been in place. this is 5th in the league, behind the knicks who have paid it every year, mavs, lakers, and cavs. hornets and pels are the only teams never to pay it.

it's 100% false to say that the owners have not been willing to pay the luxury tax.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/11/16/how-many-times-has-each-nba-team-paid-the-luxury-tax/

edit: this is up to 2018. but i know the C's have also paid it the last two years, since that it why they would be in the repeater tax if they paid again this year.

Ehh.. there is truth to the article here, but they've paid only when the team was contending, IE the KG years. Since 2013? Only once. No bueno. I'll give them this: they probably would've been willing had ky/hay/horf or kd/ad worked out. But yea... still not letting them off the hook. If we don't bring the heat as fans, they'll get complacent imo. They also don't seem to go that far into the tax compared to others, too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/tax/

If they paid the tax this year, they'd surely be paying the repeater in Kemba's last year with Brown and Tatum both near max or at max. To my knowledge not one franchise has ever paid the repeater tax, which is an absolute franchise killer. Paying the tax in any one year is one thing, paying the repeater is essentially not an option

[LuckyLeprechaun]

^^ the celtics have paid luxury tax for 7 years, out of (i think) 10 years it's been in place. this is 5th in the league, behind the knicks who have paid it every year, mavs, lakers, and cavs. hornets and pels are the only teams never to pay it.

it's 100% false to say that the owners have not been willing to pay the luxury tax.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/11/16/how-many-times-has-each-nba-team-paid-the-luxury-tax/

edit: this is up to 2018. but i know the C's have also paid it the last two years, since that it why they would be in the repeater tax if they paid again this year.

Ehh.. there is truth to the article here, but they've paid only when the team was contending, IE the KG years. Since 2013? Only once. No bueno. I'll give them this: they probably would've been willing had ky/hay/horf or kd/ad worked out. But yea... still not letting them off the hook. If we don't bring the heat as fans, they'll get complacent imo. They also don't seem to go that far into the tax compared to others, too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/tax/

If they paid the tax this year, they'd surely be paying the repeater in Kemba's last year with Brown and Tatum both near max or at max. To my knowledge not one franchise has ever paid the repeater tax, which is an absolute franchise killer. Paying the tax in any one year is one thing, paying the repeater is essentially not an option

I thought Golden State was paying the repeater tax this season.

[JHTruth]

Ehh.. there is truth to the article here, but they've paid only when the team was contending, IE the KG years. Since 2013? Only once. No bueno. I'll give them this: they probably would've been willing had ky/hay/horf or kd/ad worked out. But yea... still not letting them off the hook. If we don't bring the heat as fans, they'll get complacent imo. They also don't seem to go that far into the tax compared to others, too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/tax/

If they paid the tax this year, they'd surely be paying the repeater in Kemba's last year with Brown and Tatum both near max or at max. To my knowledge not one franchise has ever paid the repeater tax, which is an absolute franchise killer. Paying the tax in any one year is one thing, paying the repeater is essentially not an option

I thought Golden State was paying the repeater tax this season.

Not until next year. They will make big trades. No way they pay the repeater for an 8 seed

[ParticleMan]

^^ the celtics have paid luxury tax for 7 years, out of (i think) 10 years it's been in place. this is 5th in the league, behind the knicks who have paid it every year, mavs, lakers, and cavs. hornets and pels are the only teams never to pay it.

it's 100% false to say that the owners have not been willing to pay the luxury tax.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/11/16/how-many-times-has-each-nba-team-paid-the-luxury-tax/

edit: this is up to 2018. but i know the C's have also paid it the last two years, since that it why they would be in the repeater tax if they paid again this year.

Ehh.. there is truth to the article here, but they've paid only when the team was contending, IE the KG years. Since 2013? Only once. No bueno. I'll give them this: they probably would've been willing had ky/hay/horf or kd/ad worked out. But yea... still not letting them off the hook. If we don't bring the heat as fans, they'll get complacent imo. They also don't seem to go that far into the tax compared to others, too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/tax/

That's true, but most teams don't pay the luxury tax unless they are contending, except the knicks who have infinite MSG/cable income. I think the owners have clearly shown they are willing to go into tax territory if the situation demands. It's a bit disingenuous to call our owners cheap if pretty much every other owner in the L does the same thing.

The fact is, the only tax-related move I can think of is Theis, which frankly had to happen for other reasons too -- Theis was sucking, the two-big lineup was a fail, and we needed to clear time for TL. I don't think it had any impact on this season, and if it did, the impact was positive.

[cloverleaf]

^^ the celtics have paid luxury tax for 7 years, out of (i think) 10 years it's been in place. this is 5th in the league, behind the knicks who have paid it every year, mavs, lakers, and cavs. hornets and pels are the only teams never to pay it.

it's 100% false to say that the owners have not been willing to pay the luxury tax.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/11/16/how-many-times-has-each-nba-team-paid-the-luxury-tax/

edit: this is up to 2018. but i know the C's have also paid it the last two years, since that it why they would be in the repeater tax if they paid again this year.

Ehh.. there is truth to the article here, but they've paid only when the team was contending, IE the KG years. Since 2013? Only once. No bueno. I'll give them this: they probably would've been willing had ky/hay/horf or kd/ad worked out. But yea... still not letting them off the hook. If we don't bring the heat as fans, they'll get complacent imo. They also don't seem to go that far into the tax compared to others, too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/tax/

Wyc has outright said they'd do the big spending only for contending teams.

[cloverleaf]

I don't think people realize how happy our owners are and how ludicrous it is to expect changes. Danny and Brad are providing exactly what they're being paid for i.e. get to the playoffs, make the owners millions for each hosted playoff game, fill the stands while doing so and staying out of the luxury and repeater tax. The only way they could be doing a better job would be to actually make the Finals so at minimum they get to host a couple Final's games. Why would they want to change anything at this point? That said, if/when Tatum forces a trade because he doesn't want to waste his prime years not having a chance to win a chip, and Danny is incapable of rebuilding quickly, they'll make wholesale changes. I think the earliest this happens is 2023. But remember, Danny will likely trade Brown and/or Tatum for another war chest so he'll be armed with assets to rebuild. And as long as that rebuild has promise, Danny won't leave. I do think Brad won't want to remain for that though so he probably chooses to leave once this current run ends.

Actually Wyc & Co. have basked in widespread respect and admiration since 2008 (beyond the usual sucking up that goes to rich guys). This is the first year that the heat is rising to the ownership level somewhat. Yeah, they've made a killing with the team, but it is also a vanity investment--and not meant to go sideways into giving them a bad reputation. They're unlikely to adjust as quickly and dramatically as the Krafts did in their offseason, but still I expect they'll be looking for answers at the very least here.

[LuckyLeprechaun]

If they paid the tax this year, they'd surely be paying the repeater in Kemba's last year with Brown and Tatum both near max or at max. To my knowledge not one franchise has ever paid the repeater tax, which is an absolute franchise killer. Paying the tax in any one year is one thing, paying the repeater is essentially not an option

I thought Golden State was paying the repeater tax this season.

Not until next year. They will make big trades. No way they pay the repeater for an 8 seed

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/golden-state-warriors-luxury-tax-bill-explodes-after-trade-for-kelly-oubre/ar-BB1bbD4v

Says it's this year.

[playa-hater]

BTW I find that the single most lame argument to keep any coach (in this case Brad) is "who can we get that's better"

Every single coach in teams sports at one time was Hired for the first time as a HC. Everyone, 100%. From Vince Lombardi to good ole Red Auerbach to G Popps

Point is, there may be a damn good assistant out there, who may very well be a major coach in waiting. The team needs to do their due diligence, take a chance and bring in someone that fits the teams needs. It is so clear that Stevens is way over his head here.

If the team is too afraid to Nut up and give someone like Posey/Billups a chance, then an experienced HC like a Thibs and/or N McMillan may blossom under different/better circumstances. Just imagine if the NYK brass said "it's NOT the coaches fault, we need better players and never made a change?? Same for Atlanta mid season??

If what we have seen from the last few years doesn't scream change, then I have no idea what will.

#makeachange

Oddly enough, I find that the single most lame argument to fire Brad is "let's randomly try some ex-NBA player in case he's a good coach."

No one is saying let's fire Brad fire In order to try a "ex-NBA player" but rather Brad is no longer helping this team. and "IF" the best replacement happens to be an ex-NBA player than so be it.

BTW a former NBA player like Rick Carlisle or Nate McMillan may be exactly what this team needs.

[JHTruth]

I thought Golden State was paying the repeater tax this season.

Not until next year. They will make big trades. No way they pay the repeater for an 8 seed

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/golden-state-warriors-luxury-tax-bill-explodes-after-trade-for-kelly-oubre/ar-BB1bbD4v

Says it's this year.

No. They made the Wiggins trade last year to get under the tax to avoid the repeater this year. They will almost certainly move Oubre this summer to avoid it next year

[BK_2020]

Not until next year. They will make big trades. No way they pay the repeater for an 8 seed

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/golden-state-warriors-luxury-tax-bill-explodes-after-trade-for-kelly-oubre/ar-BB1bbD4v

Says it's this year.

No. They made the Wiggins trade last year to get under the tax to avoid the repeater this year. They will almost certainly move Oubre this summer to avoid it next year

Oubre is a UFA.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm still waiting for someone to suggest a viable Stevens replacement, because Rajon Rondo isn't.

[BK_2020]

I'm still waiting for someone to suggest a viable Stevens replacement, because Rajon Rondo isn't.

Antoine Walker