Craft your 2022-23 Celtics Roster – (20-Man Off-Season)

[Larry_Russell]

We shouldnt forget about Jaylen Smith as well for the MLE.

Sign and Trade Bruce Brown into the TPE (12 or so million) for a pick and then send Aaron NEsmith back to Brooklyn.
Sign Jaylen Smith for the MLE

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/White
Tatum/Brown
Smith/GrantW
Timelord/Horford

Roll with that and maybe look for some cheap vets to round out the rest.

[brackdan70]

Nesmith for martin jr
Mle for bruce brown
Not sure of what gets turner for turner?

Smart/white
Brown/brown
Tatum/martin
Turner/grant
Timelord/horford

Thats a team.

That is a great Team. I think Turner is unrealistic though. Theis and Nesmith I think gets enough Salary for a trade, I think Indy would be looking for a plus asset, like a lotto pick or good young player with upside. We have Pritchard and late FRPs. I don’t think we can make a legit trade offer unless we include one of our core players….does Smart or White make it enough? Maybe Smart does, but then I don’t know that I like it.

[BK_2020]

Nesmith for martin jr
Mle for bruce brown
Not sure of what gets turner for turner?

Smart/white
Brown/brown
Tatum/martin
Turner/grant
Timelord/horford

Thats a team.

That is a great Team. I think Turner is unrealistic though. Theis and Nesmith I think gets enough Salary for a trade, I think Indy would be looking for a plus asset, like a lotto pick or good young player with upside. We have Pritchard and late FRPs. I don’t think we can make a legit trade offer unless we include one of our core players….does Smart or White make it enough? Maybe Smart does, but then I don’t know that I like it.

Let's not forget Indy was willing to dump Turner on us and add a FRP, as long as we also took McDermott's bad contract.

[165bows]

Nesmith for martin jr
Mle for bruce brown
Not sure of what gets turner for turner?

Smart/white
Brown/brown
Tatum/martin
Turner/grant
Timelord/horford

Thats a team.

That is a great Team. I think Turner is unrealistic though. Theis and Nesmith I think gets enough Salary for a trade, I think Indy would be looking for a plus asset, like a lotto pick or good young player with upside. We have Pritchard and late FRPs. I don’t think we can make a legit trade offer unless we include one of our core players….does Smart or White make it enough? Maybe Smart does, but then I don’t know that I like it.

Let's not forget Indy was willing to dump Turner on us and add a FRP, as long as we also took McDermott's bad contract.

People are reallll enamored of the guys in IND that won 25 games.

[brackdan70]

That is a great Team. I think Turner is unrealistic though. Theis and Nesmith I think gets enough Salary for a trade, I think Indy would be looking for a plus asset, like a lotto pick or good young player with upside. We have Pritchard and late FRPs. I don’t think we can make a legit trade offer unless we include one of our core players….does Smart or White make it enough? Maybe Smart does, but then I don’t know that I like it.

Let's not forget Indy was willing to dump Turner on us and add a FRP, as long as we also took McDermott's bad contract.

People are reallll enamored of the guys in IND that won 25 games.

It’s a good point. I like Turner, but yeah, fair to assume he may not be all that.

[brackdan70]

I read a lot about the Cs needing more ball handling because so many turnovers vs GS.

I think that’s pretty reactionary and I don’t think adding a mediocre PG type with mid level or trade exception does us any good.
I like to believe that Tatum and Brown can tighten up ball handling and decision making under pressure as they grow and gain more experience.I think Smart and White are more than adequate as PGs in this system.
As for off-season need we need a versatile 6th man wing imo as first priority. 2nd priority might be a Bigger big since Horford and Williams miss a lot of time.
I think we have some good bench players in White, Grant, Pritchard and Theis, but lack that legit 6th man contributer.

[Larry_Russell]

I read a lot about the Cs needing more ball handling because so many turnovers vs GS.

I think that’s pretty reactionary and I don’t think adding a mediocre PG type with mid level or trade exception does us any good.
I like to believe that Tatum and Brown can tighten up ball handling and decision making under pressure as they grow and gain more experience.I think Smart and White are more than adequate as PGs in this system.
As for off-season need we need a versatile 6th man wing imo as first priority. 2nd priority might be a Bigger big since Horford and Williams miss a lot of time.
I think we have some good bench players in White, Grant, Pritchard and Theis, but lack that legit 6th man contributer.

you are 100% correct.

We need a top 7 or 8 guy who can come in and stretch the floor reliably. Really need that guy in the starting lineup.

I LOVE what Al brings for us, but his shooting is a liability when combined with Rob Williams lack of spacing and combined that cripples spacing, which makes Brown and Tatum have to drive into traffic.

[BK_2020]

I would argue that you can safely have 2 non-shooters. Case in point: GSW, Miami and 2020 Lakers. You park one guy in the dunker's spot, and the other non-shooter can be your pick setter or DHO guy. Obviously it's better for all five of your guys to be shooters, but having 4 shooters is hardly a requirement. 3 point shooting isn't the only way to make use of space.

[BK_2020]

Ben Simmons is still at the top of my wishlist. I don't care what anyone says.
https://youtu.be/2x3-B4ogAqA
Draymond Green with handles and finishing ability.

[Marti-mar]

Simmons also has a serious back injury at a very young age. That doesn't bode well for availability. And that salary... woof.

[soxfan2003]

I would argue that you can safely have 2 non-shooters. Case in point: GSW, Miami and 2020 Lakers. You park one guy in the dunker's spot, and the other non-shooter can be your pick setter or DHO guy. Obviously it's better for all five of your guys to be shooters, but having 4 shooters is hardly a requirement. 3 point shooting isn't the only way to make use of space.

Who are the non shooters on Miami? Bam is one even if he has an okay jump shot at times and can score around the basket. someone like Jimmy Butler is so good in midrange and free throw line, tough to call him a non shooter. In fact, Miami led the league in 3 point percentage this year. They have the option of putting a bunch of shooters out there with Bam. For all of his regular season struggles from 3, Jimmy has shot the 3 okay in the postseason.

Golden State has the best deep shooter of all time who can also create his own shot and pass(curry) and the best shooting backcourt of all time to help space the floor more than most teams. Curry being a volume 3 point shooter from deep who can pass/drive changes a lot. Even this year, they had Poole(over 90% from the line) who is kind of like a poor man's version of a young Curry which is still a very good player/shooter despite the limitations on defense. Wiggins is a decent 3 point shooter and has been for a while. Not very good but he would probably be around 35-36% from 3 for nearly his entire career on a typical team as like a third option on a more balanced team. Obviously, OPJ can shoot. GP2 can't really shoot that well but they can selectively play him.

As for the Lakers, they didn't have very good 3 point shooting but I don't know who you consider their 2 non shooters. Lebron/Davis not great 3 point shooters but both decent in midrange for at least some of their carers. They just won because of the greatness of Lebron/Davis surrounded by role players that fit. And the role players fit since many of them could shoot okay even if they were far from Miami or Golden State type shooters. Lakers had dominant size/defense and 2 scorers that no one could really defend that well.

Maybe it changes with an improved shot but right now Simmons appears to be a better regular season player than post season. I say that since deep into post season, teams more likely to game plan against his bad shooting and take away more of his transition.

tougher to take away Draymond Green since he is playing with such a great shooter in Curry so Draymonds's legal and illegal picks in terms of value are probably twice as valuable as a Ben Simmon's pick. Even if Simmons was setting a pick for JJ Reddick, Reddick is not as big of a threat to score from 2 point land as Curry.

[BK_2020]

Jimmy Butler is a "non-shooter" which basically means not a 3 point threat.
Obviously a Draymond or a Jimmy is very different from Simmons who has taken a total of like 5 threes in his career, but I think we overestimate how much spacing roleplayers or C&S options provide. Defenses repeatedly packed the paint against the Celtics in the playoffs even though we had at least a 33% shooter in a 4 or 5 out. Our stick shooters in the corners offense became predictable and easy to scheme against. It might be worth exploring whether players who can create/make use of space with cuts would improve our offense.

[Jammer]

People throw names around like they're a 7 year old making a wish to the tooth fairy.

Roles and salaries go hand in hand. 5 STARTERS, 5 BACKUPS, 5 Reserves.

The 5 Reserves (players #11 thru 15) are typically minimum salary players, draft busts or long-term injured.

You upgrade your 5 starters (who are typically your 5 CLOSERS) First. The Celtics are lacking in their closing lineup. The weakest link in that lineup is Smart. A guard that can reliably blow by people and finish at the rim while nailing pull up jumpers at a higher shooting rate while distributing the ball to teammates is the best solution. Part of this closing lineup's problem is that NEITHER Tatum or Brown are SUPERIOR shooters from 2 point range compared to the players that they face in the last three rounds of the playoffs. The Celtics survived on the overall level of contribution they got from 5 players, but that group's limitation was exposed by Milwaukee (minus Kris Middleton, who will be back next year), Golden State and Miami (minus Tyler Herro). The Celtics got a Big Break in the 2nd and 3rd Rounds of the playoffs in not having to face Middleton and a healthy Tyler Herro. The Celtics need to have a plan to execute improving their closing lineup in addition to their bench. It shouldn't be a one shot solves all. It should be a four step process or more.

The Reserves were complete whimps against Golden State. There was virtually no scoring coming from Grant Williams, Pritchard or White. At times I wondered if Ime was hesitating to put in Hauser, who is the type of player who could go 5-9 from 3, because it would destroy Nesmith's trade value. The Celtics seriously need an SF and PF that can SCORE and DEFEND. They need to be creative and the way you get these guys is by COMMITTING THE BACKUP ROLE to someone to get them to want to come to Boston. Yes, I am talking about upgrading from Grant Williams. I really only see keeping him if the Celtics had Scoring Punch off the BENCH at Both Guard spots and the SF spot. They didn't have that this season against the best teams.

And I think that Theis is overpriced for what he offers and that the Celtics might be able to find an alternative with better value for price at backup center.

Hauser was never given a chance to show if he belonged in the Reserve role. Based on his on court play he deserved more minutes than he got. The case can be made that he deserved all of Nesmith's minutes, but then the Celtics would not be able to unload Nesmith if they had done that.

[BK_2020]

If Marcus Smart could blow by people and finish at the rim while nailing pull up jumpers he'd be 6'3 Chris Paul and make $45 mil. a year.

[brackdan70]

People throw names around like they're a 7 year old making a wish to the tooth fairy.

Roles and salaries go hand in hand. 5 STARTERS, 5 BACKUPS, 5 Reserves.

The 5 Reserves (players #11 thru 15) are typically minimum salary players, draft busts or long-term injured.

You upgrade your 5 starters (who are typically your 5 CLOSERS) First. The Celtics are lacking in their closing lineup. The weakest link in that lineup is Smart. A guard that can reliably blow by people and finish at the rim while nailing pull up jumpers at a higher shooting rate while distributing the ball to teammates is the best solution. Part of this closing lineup's problem is that NEITHER Tatum or Brown are SUPERIOR shooters from 2 point range compared to the players that they face in the last three rounds of the playoffs. The Celtics survived on the overall level of contribution they got from 5 players, but that group's limitation was exposed by Milwaukee (minus Kris Middleton, who will be back next year), Golden State and Miami (minus Tyler Herro). The Celtics got a Big Break in the 2nd and 3rd Rounds of the playoffs in not having to face Middleton and a healthy Tyler Herro. The Celtics need to have a plan to execute improving their closing lineup in addition to their bench. It shouldn't be a one shot solves all. It should be a four step process or more.

The Reserves were complete whimps against Golden State. There was virtually no scoring coming from Grant Williams, Pritchard or White. At times I wondered if Ime was hesitating to put in Hauser, who is the type of player who could go 5-9 from 3, because it would destroy Nesmith's trade value. The Celtics seriously need an SF and PF that can SCORE and DEFEND. They need to be creative and the way you get these guys is by COMMITTING THE BACKUP ROLE to someone to get them to want to come to Boston. Yes, I am talking about upgrading from Grant Williams. I really only see keeping him if the Celtics had Scoring Punch off the BENCH at Both Guard spots and the SF spot. They didn't have that this season against the best teams.

And I think that Theis is overpriced for what he offers and that the Celtics might be able to find an alternative with better value for price at backup center.

Hauser was never given a chance to show if he belonged in the Reserve role. Based on his on court play he deserved more minutes than he got. The case can be made that he deserved all of Nesmith's minutes, but then the Celtics would not be able to unload Nesmith if they had done that.

I don’t disagree with your assessment here, but acquiring an upgrade over smart requires trading him plus assets. Is that what you are proposing?

If you are talking about bolstering the bench with a player that can play with the closing lineup and times and be more dynamic as a ball handler and scorer, then that’s great but feels like an impossible ask given the tools / assets we have available. What players would you target?
I’ve been wondering about Alec Burks as an idea…he may not move the needle at all though but we can probably get him without giving up anything.

[Jammer]

People throw names around like they're a 7 year old making a wish to the tooth fairy.

Roles and salaries go hand in hand. 5 STARTERS, 5 BACKUPS, 5 Reserves.

The 5 Reserves (players #11 thru 15) are typically minimum salary players, draft busts or long-term injured.

You upgrade your 5 starters (who are typically your 5 CLOSERS) First. The Celtics are lacking in their closing lineup. The weakest link in that lineup is Smart. A guard that can reliably blow by people and finish at the rim while nailing pull up jumpers at a higher shooting rate while distributing the ball to teammates is the best solution. Part of this closing lineup's problem is that NEITHER Tatum or Brown are SUPERIOR shooters from 2 point range compared to the players that they face in the last three rounds of the playoffs. The Celtics survived on the overall level of contribution they got from 5 players, but that group's limitation was exposed by Milwaukee (minus Kris Middleton, who will be back next year), Golden State and Miami (minus Tyler Herro). The Celtics got a Big Break in the 2nd and 3rd Rounds of the playoffs in not having to face Middleton and a healthy Tyler Herro. The Celtics need to have a plan to execute improving their closing lineup in addition to their bench. It shouldn't be a one shot solves all. It should be a four step process or more.

The Reserves were complete whimps against Golden State. There was virtually no scoring coming from Grant Williams, Pritchard or White. At times I wondered if Ime was hesitating to put in Hauser, who is the type of player who could go 5-9 from 3, because it would destroy Nesmith's trade value. The Celtics seriously need an SF and PF that can SCORE and DEFEND. They need to be creative and the way you get these guys is by COMMITTING THE BACKUP ROLE to someone to get them to want to come to Boston. Yes, I am talking about upgrading from Grant Williams. I really only see keeping him if the Celtics had Scoring Punch off the BENCH at Both Guard spots and the SF spot. They didn't have that this season against the best teams.

And I think that Theis is overpriced for what he offers and that the Celtics might be able to find an alternative with better value for price at backup center.

Hauser was never given a chance to show if he belonged in the Reserve role. Based on his on court play he deserved more minutes than he got. The case can be made that he deserved all of Nesmith's minutes, but then the Celtics would not be able to unload Nesmith if they had done that.

I don’t disagree with your assessment here, but acquiring an upgrade over smart requires trading him plus assets. Is that what you are proposing?

If you are talking about bolstering the bench with a player that can play with the closing lineup and times and be more dynamic as a ball handler and scorer, then that’s great but feels like an impossible ask given the tools / assets we have available. What players would you target?
I’ve been wondering about Alec Burks as an idea…he may not move the needle at all though but we can probably get him without giving up anything.

Smart may not even be the best starter position to upgrade. The bench is in serious NEED of upgrade. What the Celtics need is to create a situation where talent wants to come to Boston, and they make it happen, and are prepared to pay into the luxury tax.
If a player like Joel Embiid gets fed up with Daryl Morey's antics with Harden and Simmons and demands out, and he'd play with his summer workout partner (Tatum), you swing a deal. Everything has to be on the table. I'm not laying out the path because a lot depends who wants out, who's willing to come to Boston, and what you will commit to them in terms of role before the trade. The Celtics need a Jordan Poole like player off the bench, they need a Otto Porter like player off the bench. How you shuffle the pieces will depend on agent negotiations and the long term plan. But staying the course, I think, is out of the question since the East will likely be tougher next year and getting by Philadelphia, Miami and Milwaukee can not be taken for granted. Steps will need to be taken to get by those 3 because as constructed, if everyone is healthy, the Celtics could have serious problems with all 3 of those opponents.

[ThePigeon]

Last Celtics championship roster:
No. Player Pos Ht
20 Ray Allen SG 6-5
42 Tony Allen SG 6-4
93 P.J. Brown PF 6-11
28 Sam Cassell PG 6-3
11 Glen Davis C 6-9
5 Kevin Garnett PF 6-11
50 Eddie House PG 6-1
43 Kendrick Perkins C 6-10
34 Paul Pierce SF 6-7
66 Scot Pollard C 6-11
41 James Posey PF 6-8
0 Leon Powe C 6-8
13 Gabe Pruitt PG 6-4
9 Rajon Rondo PG 6-1
44 Brian Scalabrine PF 6-9

Notice there is little dead weight. Only Gabe Pruitt was unplayable.
Some older guys, but each had enough to play and really contribute a couple of minutes each game.

Last year's roster had 6 dead weight guys. No help form the bench in the finals.
We need to stack the team with veterans and lose all the development projects (except Nesmith maybe - and keep Begarin and Madar abroad). RWIII, PP and Grant are enough projects as it is.

[31to6]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267477/Hornets-Trying-To-Trade-Gordon-Hayward-With-One-Draft-Pick

please talk me out of White, Theis, Nesmith for Hayward and #13 or #15

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Hayward
Tatum/Hayward
Al/Hayward
Rob/Grant

still have TPE, TPMLE, and #13 or #15 to reduce the # of Haywards on the court at one time

plus you'd have SpiderMen meme of Hayward and Hauser at least on media day

do you like it or hate it?

[165bows]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267477/Hornets-Trying-To-Trade-Gordon-Hayward-With-One-Draft-Pick

please talk me out of White, Theis, Nesmith for Hayward and #13 or #15

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Hayward
Tatum/Hayward
Al/Hayward
Rob/Grant

still have TPE, TPMLE, and #13 or #15 to reduce the # of Haywards on the court at one time

plus you'd have SpiderMen meme of Hayward and Hauser at least on media day

do you like it or hate it?

Have to keep White imo unless there is some other really good replacement. Has to be Theis, Nesmith and a ton of spare parts, or they got another salary from somewhere.

[darrendaye]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267477/Hornets-Trying-To-Trade-Gordon-Hayward-With-One-Draft-Pick

please talk me out of White, Theis, Nesmith for Hayward and #13 or #15

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Hayward
Tatum/Hayward
Al/Hayward
Rob/Grant

still have TPE, TPMLE, and #13 or #15 to reduce the # of Haywards on the court at one time

plus you'd have SpiderMen meme of Hayward and Hauser at least on media day

do you like it or hate it?

Have to keep White imo unless there is some other really good replacement. Has to be Theis, Nesmith and a ton of spare parts, or they got another salary from somewhere.

Yeah, would likely need to engage 3rd team with Fournier TPE for player to pair with Theis.