Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[Captain_Caveman]

You live in LA and watched the Clippers a few times and you're going to puff your chest out at a guy who hasn't missed a Clipper game in about 9 years? I'm well aware of DJ's shortcomings but to act like he's a NEGATIVE player is patently false and in opposition to facts. He's a 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 2 bpg PER 36 player who had the highest field goal percentage in the league and plays above average defense. His PER wasn't much worse than KG's this year at 17. Point is, overpaid like all decent centers yes. Very flawed and raw, yes. "Garbage", absolutely not. Unless you don't know the game of basketball and analyze the game on small sample sizes or what others tell you.

He's an athlete with no skills, who doesn't know how to play basketball. He is your standard issue 6p/6r, 20mpg backup center who excels at nothing besides dunking and blocked shots. No scoring, no defense, no situational awareness, no BBIQ and atrocious FT shooting.

The Warriors made a huge mistake wasting their amnesty to try to sign this guy away to an overpaid offer sheet, and you guys messed up just as bad by matching it. The idea of paying this guy twice his worth is ridonkulous, and especially with the 13m cap hit. He's Greg Steimsma with a tan and more hops.

Further, he is a huge reason you got bounced in the first round, as you had a $10m big man that you could barely even put on the floor against real competition. Go get a sample size for THAT and get back to me. Per 36 stats, my ass. If the guy could play 36 minutes, he would do that, and you wouldn't have been stuck with guys like Ryan Hollins and Turiaf out there.

Us getting DJ and the 25th pick is like going to Subway and getting a sandwich with no meat. There ain't nothing there. If that deal falling apart works out for you, great. I know it worked out for us.

Last, everyone here grew up watching Bird, Russell, KG, McHale, Cowens, Pierce, Parish, Havlicek, Rondo, etc...

We "know the game of basketball". Celts have played 100+ playoff games in the last 6 years alone. You guys have 64 in your entire franchise history, and only 42 since 1976. With no titles, and never even having made it out of the Conference Semis.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Ramona Shelburne ‏@ramonashelburne 43s
Put it this way: Clippers were asked to give up 2 first rounders for right to pay Doc $7 mill/per year

Which the Celtics would prefer not pay anyways.

Oh bs. Jordan's an average center worth $5-6 million. She seemed to agree with Max Kellerman yesterday that KG's a major upgrade over Jordan...

[SuperDeluxe]

You live in LA and watched the Clippers a few times and you're going to puff your chest out at a guy who hasn't missed a Clipper game in about 9 years? I'm well aware of DJ's shortcomings but to act like he's a NEGATIVE player is patently false and in opposition to facts. He's a 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 2 bpg PER 36 player who had the highest field goal percentage in the league and plays above average defense. His PER wasn't much worse than KG's this year at 17. Point is, overpaid like all decent centers yes. Very flawed and raw, yes. "Garbage", absolutely not. Unless you don't know the game of basketball and analyze the game on small sample sizes or what others tell you.

He doesn't play that kind of minutes. If you are citing his per 36 you are either missing a big shortcoming, or trying to hide it. Been referenced several times in this thread.

What's Fab Melo's PER 36?

EDIT: Just noticed that this was my post #13000. How awesome am I?

[tombattor]

This doesn't hurt the Celtics much. They were in a bad position before. They're in the same position now. If Doc really wants to return, he can pull it off. He's that good interpersonally and with the media.

The Clippers though, might have wrecked their chance at keeping Chris Paul. If he goes, they're screwed. In fact, this thing could easily reignite if the Clippers end up facing this scenario.

Exactly. Doc is a pro. He can say the right things and move on. This is business and he's going to make $7 million for it. He'll be fine coming back.

[15th overall]

Jackie Mac just said on Around the Horn that "according to her sources" Doc is prepared to come back and coach

What a dick.

[TheSheriff]

This doesn't hurt the Celtics much. They were in a bad position before. They're in the same position now.

To be honest the package LA Clippers was offering is not even particularly appetizing. Two first round picks in the 20s are extremely unlikely to turn into much more than fungible role players. Jordan is what he is. The LA package would help the rebuilding, but the real rebuilding will come from their own draft picks and if they decide to flip Rondo for other assets.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Seems the Clippers will have to deal Blake for Dwight to make CP3 happy. Good luck dealing with the Lakers, who rarely lose a trade...

[King Of The 4th]

At this point, the best-case for the Clippers is:

Pierce gets bought out, we amnesty Garnett, release Doc-
Both sign with LA, as does Doc.

Pretty sure we can't amnesty Garnett because his contract came after the lockout.

Also, I couldn't be happier that Ainge held his ground and refused to take back negative value for Garnett. I would much rather see Garnett and Pierce retire as Celtics rather than receive a late first rounder and an overpaid Jordan.

[tombattor]

Seems the Clippers will have to deal Blake for Dwight to make CP3 happy. Good luck dealing with the Lakers, who rarely lose a trade...

Of course. They have the leverage in money. Well, the Knicks are just dumb.

[jfs1000d]

I just don't see how Doc can continue as coach. He just signed that contract, and knew they would have to rebuild. Now maybe Doc told Ainge he will not coach the Cs, and didn't leak it as to take away all of the Celtic's leverage in trying to get something for Doc. So that was the reason Doc has been quiet through all of this. As it stands I just see one option for Doc, and that's to resign. Go work in TV. Why would management want someone who doesn't really want his job?

This plan was hatched in conjunction with Doc and Ainge. I think Ainge and Doc talked about how using him would put the Celtics in a better position. Doc didn't force this. Doc was being used like an asset to better position Boston for the future.

Ainge treated his coach like an asset, not management. I am sure Doc floated the idea and then promptly removed himself from the situation.

If Doc's in Boston tomorrow, it's either to come back to Boston or quit right now. I would think it's the former.

Doc isn't leaving $7 million, and, Doc's a pro above all. KG? I don't know. I think KG will go into wait and see mode. I lean towards KG being fine.

Pierce and Ray Allen were in rumored deals for years. It had no effect on their play.

[Captain_Caveman]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

You a silly rabbit. Even assuming that scenario, KG would get a small buyout and we would end up saving about $40m the next 3 years (factoring in both lux tax savings and cost of replacements). Money which can be reinvested into the team at a later date.

And that's not what is going to happen. We have three years to get a late first rounder for Doc, without the bother of taking on a vastly overpaid DJ. KG could be traded prior to a buyout and save another team $10-15m, or free up the cap room that allows them to max CP3 or Howard. Ditto for Pierce.

Celts won't get a ton for those guys, but they will sure as hell do better than tradekicked DJ and a 25th pick in a historically bad draft. In the meantime, the Clips can have fun getting bounced in the 1st and 2nd round every year with a team that is allegedly a contender (guffaw lol).

[Marvel]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

And you know this how?

Precedence and logic...

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how the domino will falls.

Yet, it hasn't happened.

[campybatman]

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

1. I no longer get the impression that Ainge desires to buy out Pierce's contract. He wants to trade him as opposed to allow him to sign with the Clippers or another franchise.

2. Boston's ownership has no desire to continue to pay their head coach $7M a year when Boston is in rebuilding mode. The fallout is, Rivers will likely want out of his current contract, regardless.

3. I don't believe that's correct. I read that Garnett's remaining salary is completely removed from Boston's salary cap if he opts to retire this off-season.

Boston has until the end of June to waive Pierce. Coincidentally, if KG retired before July 1, his entire contract would come off the books and the Celtics would owe him nothing (his 2013-14 salary was set at $12.4 million and his 2014-15 non-guaranteed salary would be $12 million).

With the Pierce buyout and a formal Garnett retirement, the Celtics would have $58,252,629 of total payroll.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1670 ... -situation

[Andrew McCeltic]

Precedence and logic...

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how the domino will falls.

Unwarranted smugness. Just as likely is that-

Chris Paul realizes he's playing for a team who won't pay what it takes to win. Realizes that he can play for better, more mature, veteran, playoff-tested teammates than Griffin and Jordan. And a better coach. Realizes that you're handing him Aaron Afflalo as your big off-season prize. He walks to Houston. Bledsoe is exposed as a starter and his trade value drops. Jordan spends another year being badly coached and doesn't develop. Your other star realizes he needs to get out ASAP. Clips resume laughingstock-ness.

The Clippers have done this before, too, where they've had a good core on the verge of contention and pass the opportunity up. We were basically guaranteeing them legitimacy, at least for a season.

In reality, though, I don't blame either team- we would have made you the Knicks West, one over-matched superstar whose only help is from near-dead 40 year olds. And we'd basically be flipping a 10-million dollar coin on whether Jordan becomes Tyson Chandler or Samuel Dalembert.

Worth pointing out, too, that giving up a late first round pick for most teams means giving up a dice roll on a young prospect who may not be good enough to stick in the league. But for a cheap owner, giving up two first-rounders means giving up cost-controlled players, regardless of their talent level.

[FlatearthZorro]

You live in LA and watched the Clippers a few times and you're going to puff your chest out at a guy who hasn't missed a Clipper game in about 9 years? I'm well aware of DJ's shortcomings but to act like he's a NEGATIVE player is patently false and in opposition to facts. He's a 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 2 bpg PER 36 player who had the highest field goal percentage in the league and plays above average defense. His PER wasn't much worse than KG's this year at 17. Point is, overpaid like all decent centers yes. Very flawed and raw, yes. "Garbage", absolutely not. Unless you don't know the game of basketball and analyze the game on small sample sizes or what others tell you.

He's an athlete with no skills, who doesn't know how to play basketball. He is your standard issue 6p/6r, 20mpg backup center who excels at nothing besides dunking and blocked shots. No scoring, no defense, no situational awareness, no BBIQ and atrocious FT shooting.

The Warriors made a huge mistake wasting their amnesty to try to sign this guy away to an overpaid offer sheet, and you guys messed up just as bad by matching it. The idea of paying this guy twice his worth is ridonkulous, and especially with the 13m cap hit. He's Greg Steimsma with a tan and more hops.

Further, he is a huge reason you got bounced in the first round, as you had a $10m big man that you could barely even put on the floor against real competition. Go get a sample size for THAT and get back to me. Per 36 stats, my ass. If the guy could play 36 minutes, he would do that, and you wouldn't have been stuck with guys like Ryan Hollins and Turiaf out there.

Us getting DJ and the 25th pick is like going to Subway and getting a sandwich with no meat. There ain't nothing there. If that deal falling apart works out for you, great. I know it worked out for us.

Last, everyone here grew up watching Bird, Russell, KG, McHale, Cowens, Pierce, Parish, Havlicek, Rondo, etc...

We "know the game of basketball". Celts have played 100+ playoff games in the last 6 years alone. You guys have 64 in your entire franchise history, and only 42 since 1976. With no titles, and never even having made it out of the Conference Semis.

One of the best posts in this thread, if not the best. And 1, I'm going to bed... U basically wrote most of the things I've repeating in this thread.

edit: steamer can definitely shoot it tho..

[tfmiii]

I don't see what the big deal by turning down their initial **** offer is. If Doc goes to TVland, KG retires, Pierce is traded, Rondo working back from an ACL, we're gonna suck, right? Well tanking accomplished!

And regarding tanking, Ainge is not married to that. He was trying to trade for Smith and Millsap. That's not a tanking move. A lot of assumption KG won't be back, but we haven't heard a peep from KG other than that he'd assent to this trade.

And Clippers being Clippers = Sterling being Sterling. I think Heisler is overstating it with "Sterling won't be dictated to". The guy just doesn't want to pay for a championship contender. And that will be very apparent to Chris Paul, if it already isn't.

I took his "sterling won't be dictated to" as sarcasm, to mean that Sterling does not know what it means to have a back and forth, he is used to it being his way all the way. (That's what you get when you have a slum-lord for a negotiator.) i could be wrong.

I understood it that way since, obviously, Danny had been the one to bend and try and offer different scenarios, Clips were rigid in their offer. They were the ones who were attempting to dictate.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkHeisler/status/347083331139166208[/tweet]

Sterling is essentially clueless, or as put in another tweet, 'lives in his own world'

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkHeisler/status/347084696699674627[/tweet]

[tombattor]

Sterling is a cheap loser. This was a deal that could have worked outs for both teams.

We get rid of some salary, including kg and doc's and get some draft picks to help us rebuild.

Clippers get a contender. And if things work out, they won't miss those picks because they'll be insignificant to them.

You gotta give something to get something.

[AKFO]

If I'm the Clips, I'd take Lee, Terry, KG, Doc, and essentially Pierce for 2 bottom 13 percent 1sts, Jordan (who they would love to get rid of) and Butler.

Lee gives them a solid-sized, defensive guard who can hit the three. Great complimentary player for a team that doesn't have a 6 foot 5 defensive guard like such.

Terry gives them championship swagger and the ability to hit big shots if need be; expires in just two years.

They get great D, championship experience, and leadership in KG

They get Paul Pierce for free

They get a top 3 coach in the league

They unload Jordan and his **** octuple digit contract, whom they can't even play when it matters.

They guarantee Chris Paul returns

They lose two 25-30 picks who wouldn't get much time to develop under LA's championship window (CP3's five year contract) and two players who would maybe suck anyways.

They keep their only two assets (Griffin and Bledsoe) to upgrade their team elsewhere (Howard?)

They bring home a championship


Good job Clips.

[tfmiii]

Eric Bledsoe is a poor man's Raymond Felton. Why this guy is considered "untouchable" is beyond me. The guy is nothing special. Not in college. Not in the pros. And Deandre Jordan? LOL. Big pile of TRASH with a bad contract. No thanks.

blame Doc?

[mapko81]

At this point, the best-case for the Clippers is:

Pierce gets bought out, we amnesty Garnett, release Doc-
Both sign with LA, as does Doc.

Pretty sure we can't amnesty Garnett because his contract came after the lockout.

Also, I couldn't be happier that Ainge held his ground and refused to take back negative value for Garnett. I would much rather see Garnett and Pierce retire as Celtics rather than receive a late first rounder and an overpaid Jordan.

Maybe you guys think that DJ is overpaid, but that's not a view around the league... a lot of teams would be more than happy to take that contract off of LACs hands. Maybe you are spoiled having KG playing C at a hometown discount, but Cs like DJ are hard to find in the league. He would easily get a $10 mill per year offer if he was a FA this summer.