Official Draft Thread 2015-16

[ddb]

I'm hearing from a few bball ops execs that I know that the top 3 prospects in this draft in terms of star potential are Simmons, Dunn and Ingram. I'd have to agree. I love all 3 and would be happy with any of those guys in Celtics green.

Simmons- LeBron type
Ingram- Durant type
Dunn- Wade type, but with more PG skills

Gonna go out on a limb right now and say none of these guys are franchise players - Ingrim is a bust waiting to happen, Simmons is "point-forward Rondo", Dunn is a legit scorer.

These 3 combined will make less All Star games than any one of those comparisons, i'd bet.

I think point forward Rondo with good FT shooting sounds like a total beast. And yes, betting that ddb's trio won't be the next LBJ/KD/Wade is pretty safe, but I'm still amazed at how much people are tempering their expectations on Simmons.

Rich man's Odom without the nosecandy addiction would be close to a franchise player in my book. Maybe not in the same class as LBJ/Curry/KD, but a total stud you could start to build a team around. The Jason Kidd/Gary Payton/Karl Malone/Chris Webber/Clyde Drexler class of stud.

I couldn't agree more. Imagine a less stubborn, 6'10, better FT shooting Rondo? Isn't that a Hall of Fame player? If Simmons develops a respectable outside shot, forget it. He's special, special.

[ddb]

Gonna go out on a limb right now and say none of these guys are franchise players - Ingrim is a bust waiting to happen, Simmons is "point-forward Rondo", Dunn is a legit scorer.

These 3 combined will make less All Star games than any one of those comparisons, i'd bet.

history/percentages would favor your assessment. Although I'll disagree about Simmons. He's the next face of the NBA

Simmons does a lot of awesome things - but I need more than "I think his shot will develop" to convince me he is a future franchise player - his shot is BROKEN, trust me, i watched him shoot for hours.

Instead of arguing on this point, tell me how he SCORES THE BASKETBALL, in the event he can't shoot any better than he currently does.

Thats all I want - somebody to explain how you consistently generate points in the NBA if you are only a threat to drive the ball. He is not a physically dominant player like Amare or Griffin, does not use his body like that. Are we assuming that can be learned? Because he will be a total liability as a 4 if he remains as finesse/contact averse as he is now.

If he has to play the 3, how does he function as a scorer with a defense set to defend him?

That's the only question I can't answer in order to endorse him as the "the next guy". Is that mot a fair criticism or do I have to continue to listen to "yaaa, but his shooting will get better" or "he'll learn to be more physical" - two things that DO NOT IMPROVE as frequently as they remain the same. What happens if odds are on the latter?

Anyone?

Ben Simmons will start out as a play making Point Forward that that gets to the line regularly. Even if LeBron couldn't shoot, he'd still be dominate because of how physically gifted he is. Simmons isn't close to as STRONG as Bron is, but Simmons is taller and quicker. Simmons has incredible vision and Hoops IQ. Like off the charts, special vision.

You're acting like he's Josh Smith. I think he's closer to LeBron James. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but leaning a bit more towards LeBron. At worst, he's a 7X All-Star. at best, he's a franchise changing Hall of Famer. Very special talent

[Murta]

Random .. and before my time .. but how good was KG's jumper coming out of high school? Watching Simmons 43 pt highlights reminds me of a younger KG. Of course I'm not saying he's the next KG or anything. Just a random thought.

http://cgscoutperspective.blogspot.hr/2011/03/cgs-view-of-kg-kevin-garnett-when-he.html

Draining his shots during warm-ups. High release point on jump shot. Good mid-range shooting ability at this stage. Can catch, turn & shoot from 12-15 feet out.

So, no, KG's jumper was way better. BUT, Chris Webber was a bad shooter, particularly from the free throw line, but that never stopped him from averaging 23+ pts in Sacramento from 1999 until 2003 in teams he felt comfortable.

[Gomes3PC]

Lamar Odom was used as a comp for Simmons too. It's not perfect - Simmons is much worse as a defender but much more skilled in the post - but if he's close to Odom that's a damn fine piece. In Odom's prime years he was an 8-10 win share player - a legit #2 piece for a title team.

[BfB]

Chris Webber had amazing pist footwork

[ddb]

whatever. I'm so done defending Simmons. Bottom line, if you aren't a Simmons guy, fine. But you have ZERO shot at convincing me that Ben Simmons isn't going to be a Super star. He's the real deal. People can keep trying to pick him apart, just like they tried to pick LeBron apart. At the end of the day Simmons is going to be EVEN BETTER in the NBA where it's a more wide open game.

He's going to mess around and get a triple doubles regularly in the league

[Kenhov]

I agree on Simmons.

He is what Royce White could have been if he wasn't a nutjob and egomaniac.

Simmons will get a shot but until then he will break records because his size and vision make him impossible to stop.

[BfB]

whatever. I'm so done defending Simmons. Bottom line, if you aren't a Simmons guy, fine. But you have ZERO shot at convincing me that Ben Simmons isn't going to be a Super star. He's the real deal. People can keep trying to pick him apart, just like they tried to pick LeBron apart. At the end of the day Simmons is going to be EVEN BETTER in the NBA where it's a more wide open game.

He's going to mess around and get a triple doubles regularly in the league

That's fine -as long as you understand that the argument was about being a go-to scorer, not "triple doubles" - I don't want there to be any revisionist history.

The game is wide open in the NBA Put KO/Jae/AB/IT around him to space the floor and he'll have many a triple double and make those guys better offensively...that's different from being a top 10 scoring 1st option. That's the only point i was making.

We'll see how many points he scores against BOS while playing for PHI next year.

[ddb]

whatever. I'm so done defending Simmons. Bottom line, if you aren't a Simmons guy, fine. But you have ZERO shot at convincing me that Ben Simmons isn't going to be a Super star. He's the real deal. People can keep trying to pick him apart, just like they tried to pick LeBron apart. At the end of the day Simmons is going to be EVEN BETTER in the NBA where it's a more wide open game.

He's going to mess around and get a triple doubles regularly in the league

That's fine -as long as you understand that the argument was about being a go-to scorer, not "triple doubles" - I don't want there to be any revisionist history.

The game is wide open in the NBA Put KO/Jae/AB/IT around him to space the floor and he'll have many a triple double and make those guys better offensively...that's different from being a top 10 scoring 1st option. That's the only point i was making.

We'll see how many points he scores against BOS while playing for PHI next year.

gross to think about Philly getting #1. they're an embarrassment to the league with how they're rebuilding. I hope they get #3 again and draft a bust

[BfB]

Haha - that was just a tweek man - long way to go before we know how the draft order stacks up

[SmartWentCrazy]

I think both DDB and BfB are right about Simmons. To me, he's a 6'10 Rondo. Surround him with talent and he'll look like Magic. He will not score 20+ regularly, but will still be an elite player. If you expect him to carry a scorers burden, you will be disappointed.

Fun fact, in 8 of Magic's 12 seasons pre-HIV, he averaged less than 20 PPG. You can dominate the game without being relied on for scoring, especially if your surrounded by top-tier talent.

[DK-All Day]

LBJ called Simmons "special".

[Pacino62]

That Exchange was some of the best back and forth on here in a loooooong time. This board has changed. That was old school Celtics realgm. No name mindless arguing, calling people out or finger pointing. Just good basketball talk. Figured I'd chime in with that. Great stuff guys.

[BfB]

I think both DDB and BfB are right about Simmons. To me, he's a 6'10 Rondo. Surround him with talent and he'll look like Magic. He will not score 20+ regularly, but will still be an elite player. If you expect him to carry a scorers burden, you will be disappointed.

Fun fact, in 8 of Magic's 12 seasons pre-HIV, he averaged less than 20 PPG. You can dominate the game without being relied on for scoring, especially if your surrounded by top-tier talent.

He's the best player comp there is I think - if we got 18/11/8/3/2 I think we'd all do cartwheel. He definitely has that potential....need to see him pull together this talented LSU team before I am totally comfortable predicting his highest upside - Magic kept a tight ship at Michigan State, his leadership being his strongest on-court trait.

If he shows me that this year he is truly a no-brainer franchise guy. If not, he's still a Tier 1 prospect just not as easy to go "full Magic" on my expectations. I think thats a balanced perspective to have.

[Marvel]

i'd hate for the Sixers to get a special talent like Simmons. They don't deserve him.

[BfB]

LBJ called Simmons "special".

Players are not always the best evaluators of the intangibles, though excellent judges of physical talent. I've watched MJ and Kobe place unreasonable expectations on too many players for decades to just go with their "gut" - hanging out at "fabulous" events together and **** around on the court occassionally at pseudo-bball pickups is not the same as puttingmin work with players.

I'd love him to play with some real solid grinders for a while and have to lunch pail it as low tuy on the totem pole for about 2-3 years as if you were grooming a new QB in football - managed minutes and reps in situations of controlled and varied leverage.

BOS is actually a great team environment for him to grow provided IT/AB continue as a duel scoring threat putting up 40-45 ppg efficiently. If 2 of Zeller/KO/Sully were to start combining for 30-40 per night with their PnR, Pop, and Spot Up/Drive games Simmons would absolutely be able to pump all those guys up another 15-20% production-wise and kill it himself in the process.

[BfB]

...but thats the problem, we need more certainty on our own roster before we really know which way to lean organizationally - trade, draft, or development...

[lon3lytoaster]

Honestly I'll do cartwheels for pretty much any of the big five prospects this year. Simmons, Skal, Bender, Brown and Ingram.

[jmr07019]

Well none of us want Philly to get Simmons but Simmons Okafor Noel is just an awful awful fit. Would open the door for a Brooklyn pick for Noel trade

[gdagod10]

Well none of us want Philly to get Simmons but Simmons Okafor Noel is just an awful awful fit. Would open the door for a Brooklyn pick for Noel trade

I imagine if Sixers get Simmons they 100% move one of their bigs. They'll be in the market for a stretch four and a PG who can play off the ball. Okafor and Noel are so mindbogglingly terrible when they're on the court together. If Embiid can play that trade is pretty much set in stone.