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2019 NBA draft

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JonFromVA
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#501 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:16 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
In a normal draft, where talent decreases exponentially? Sure. But in this draft, where the marginal difference amongst talent from pick 2-20 isnt great? Nope.

This draft has a superstar, franchise changer in Zion then a whole bunch of role players. Some may have more potential than others, but this is not the draft you want to be picking in the 2-7 range. Said another way, the #3 pick this year =/= the #3 from 2018 or 2017.


If you are correct, then the smart move would be to trade out of the draft and get a sure thing or a future pick; but even in a supposed 1-man draft like 2012 there were still 4 other All-Stars in the draft for teams able to identify them or lucky enough to stumble upon them.

I'm not going to say you're wrong, because only time will tell, but seems most people consider this at least a 3 player draft. Being considered a tier below Zion (who's have one of the best seasons ever for a freshman) is not necessarily a knock.

Alas, losing DraftExpress to ESPN's paywall is a big blow to public pre-draft evaluations ...


Kevin O’Connor from The Ringer summed it up well:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/3/18/18270319/zion-williamson-tanking-nba-draft-lebron-james-anthony-davis

This will be a top-heavy draft class because of Zion. After him, it’s a mixed bag: Duke forward R.J. Barrett and Murray State guard Ja Morant have star potential but also come with worrisome flaws, like Barrett’s lack of feel for the game and Morant’s jumper. The draft is filled with good-not-great prospects like Vanderbilt guard Darius Garland, underwhelming elite high school recruits like Duke forward Cam Reddish, projected role players like Tennessee forward Grant Williams, and wild cards like Oregon center Bol Bol. Some players will blossom into stardom, as they always do—even the 2013 draft class, which was supposed to be historically bad, brought Giannis Antetokounmpo and Rudy Gobert into the NBA. Executives around the league agree that this draft plateaus around the fourth or fifth pick into the middle or late first round, but there is no consensus on the players that come after Williamson; one team’s fifth-ranked prospect might be 25th on another team’s board.

Williamson is on a draft board of one, though.


This years draft has a marginal difference in talent from picks 2 to ~20, IMO. RJ and Morant are atop that class, but they have very real and scary flaws. If RJ goes two and the Cavs have pick 3, I think they’d strongly consider trading for additional picks [including 2 lottery picks] than drafting another PG. This is the odd year that having more bites at the apple is more advantageous than one because the talent differentials really arent that great.


That's not how I read the reports you quoted at all. "Star potential with worrisome flaws" is pretty typical of most high-end prospects because they don't stick around long enough. Heck, if we wanted to nitpick, we could say Zion has some worrisome flaws too but he dominates with what he does have, so, we're happy.

But if bigger/stronger/faster NBA players can play off him and defend him with length around the rim and run out to contest his set shot, his lack of a jumper could become a bigger problem than Morant's.

Speaking of Morant ... he's clearly had a breakout season even if his 3pt% and competition level isn't where we'd like, but I don't recall him on anyone's radar this time last year after his freshman year.

It all comes down to talent & upside evaluation. So, maybe if Cam Reddish stays at Duke, he's the hottest prospect next year? Fans and media pundits are pretty poor at predicting this kind of thing so yeah, we see a lot of uncertainty. The NBA talent evaluators, otoh, if they want to be worth their pay had better find a way to cut through that uncertainty and be able to identify NBA talent and skills no matter how under-developed.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#502 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:51 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
If you are correct, then the smart move would be to trade out of the draft and get a sure thing or a future pick; but even in a supposed 1-man draft like 2012 there were still 4 other All-Stars in the draft for teams able to identify them or lucky enough to stumble upon them.

I'm not going to say you're wrong, because only time will tell, but seems most people consider this at least a 3 player draft. Being considered a tier below Zion (who's have one of the best seasons ever for a freshman) is not necessarily a knock.

Alas, losing DraftExpress to ESPN's paywall is a big blow to public pre-draft evaluations ...


Kevin O’Connor from The Ringer summed it up well:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/3/18/18270319/zion-williamson-tanking-nba-draft-lebron-james-anthony-davis

This will be a top-heavy draft class because of Zion. After him, it’s a mixed bag: Duke forward R.J. Barrett and Murray State guard Ja Morant have star potential but also come with worrisome flaws, like Barrett’s lack of feel for the game and Morant’s jumper. The draft is filled with good-not-great prospects like Vanderbilt guard Darius Garland, underwhelming elite high school recruits like Duke forward Cam Reddish, projected role players like Tennessee forward Grant Williams, and wild cards like Oregon center Bol Bol. Some players will blossom into stardom, as they always do—even the 2013 draft class, which was supposed to be historically bad, brought Giannis Antetokounmpo and Rudy Gobert into the NBA. Executives around the league agree that this draft plateaus around the fourth or fifth pick into the middle or late first round, but there is no consensus on the players that come after Williamson; one team’s fifth-ranked prospect might be 25th on another team’s board.

Williamson is on a draft board of one, though.


This years draft has a marginal difference in talent from picks 2 to ~20, IMO. RJ and Morant are atop that class, but they have very real and scary flaws. If RJ goes two and the Cavs have pick 3, I think they’d strongly consider trading for additional picks [including 2 lottery picks] than drafting another PG. This is the odd year that having more bites at the apple is more advantageous than one because the talent differentials really arent that great.


How quickly things change. Before the season started, everyone was touting Barrett to be the star player. Heck, some mocks even had Reddish and Little in the top 3, with Zion being ranked as low as 5th.

Barrett has been disappointing, while Zion has lived up to every bit of hype he has received. Going to be an interesting draft. I want to see if Danny thinks there's anyone worth drafting late in the 1st round. That's when he does his best work, IMO.


Top prospects often are disappointing as they're competing against better competition and upperclassmen as the NCAA tourney rolls around. Duke, otoh, has been playing a very strong schedule all year long.

Like don't you remember this time last year we were comparing Trae Young's in-conference play .vs. his out-of-conference play? Remember how one and done lottery picks like Young, Bagley, Ayton, Bamba, Carter, Sexton, etc, were mediocre to good but not exactly transcendent in the tourney?

It may be the same for this batch, but out of all of them Barrett's set up pretty well to become a tourney hero, because a) he has the experience, b) things tend to clog up for bigs, and c) defenses will have little choice but to overplay Zion. He'll have to start knocking down 3pters though, because if he doesn't some far more obscure upperclassmen on the other team will.

otoh, maybe taking the most shots will do the trick ... lol

Consider this box score from the 2011 NCAA championship game that made Kemba Walker a legend:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2011-04-04-butler.html

An NCAA junior (and future NBA star) in the biggest game of his life goes 5 for 15 and 0 for 4 on 3pters and dishes 0 assists; but ends up the star of the game because he scored 16 pts.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#503 » by SmartWentCrazy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:39 pm

JonFromVA wrote:That's not how I read the reports you quoted at all. "Star potential with worrisome flaws" is pretty typical of most high-end prospects because they don't stick around long enough. Heck, if we wanted to nitpick, we could say Zion has some worrisome flaws too but he dominates with what he does have, so, we're happy.


“After [Zion], its a mixed bag” and calling the draft flat from 4 to the late first is pretty damning. Youre welcome to believe in RJ [I dont, hes Josh Jackson 2.0] and Morant [I do, pending him going to the right team]— I’m fine agreeing to disagree.

But if bigger/stronger/faster NBA players can play off him and defend him with length around the rim and run out to contest his set shot, his lack of a jumper could become a bigger problem than Morant's.

Speaking of Morant ... he's clearly had a breakout season even if his 3pt% and competition level isn't where we'd like, but I don't recall him on anyone's radar this time last year after his freshman year.


I like Morant on the right team, where he isnt thrust as a primary offensive scorer. He’s a good set-shooter [see FT%], but heinous at pull-ups. I dislike him heavily on a team relying on him to be the primary offensive force.

Moreover, he’s a terrible fit on Cleveland next to Sexton.

It all comes down to talent & upside evaluation. So, maybe if Cam Reddish stays at Duke, he's the hottest prospect next year? Fans and media pundits are pretty poor at predicting this kind of thing so yeah, we see a lot of uncertainty. The NBA talent evaluators, otoh, if they want to be worth their pay had better find a way to cut through that uncertainty and be able to identify NBA talent and skills no matter how under-developed.


Cam Reddish is James Michael McAdoo 2.0. He should enter the draft this year and take his money. I wouldnt touch him with a ten foot pole.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#504 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:27 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:That's not how I read the reports you quoted at all. "Star potential with worrisome flaws" is pretty typical of most high-end prospects because they don't stick around long enough. Heck, if we wanted to nitpick, we could say Zion has some worrisome flaws too but he dominates with what he does have, so, we're happy.


“After [Zion], its a mixed bag” and calling the draft flat from 4 to the late first is pretty damning. Youre welcome to believe in RJ [I dont, hes Josh Jackson 2.0] and Morant [I do, pending him going to the right team]— I’m fine agreeing to disagree.

But if bigger/stronger/faster NBA players can play off him and defend him with length around the rim and run out to contest his set shot, his lack of a jumper could become a bigger problem than Morant's.

Speaking of Morant ... he's clearly had a breakout season even if his 3pt% and competition level isn't where we'd like, but I don't recall him on anyone's radar this time last year after his freshman year.


I like Morant on the right team, where he isnt thrust as a primary offensive scorer. He’s a good set-shooter [see FT%], but heinous at pull-ups. I dislike him heavily on a team relying on him to be the primary offensive force.

Moreover, he’s a terrible fit on Cleveland next to Sexton.

It all comes down to talent & upside evaluation. So, maybe if Cam Reddish stays at Duke, he's the hottest prospect next year? Fans and media pundits are pretty poor at predicting this kind of thing so yeah, we see a lot of uncertainty. The NBA talent evaluators, otoh, if they want to be worth their pay had better find a way to cut through that uncertainty and be able to identify NBA talent and skills no matter how under-developed.


Cam Reddish is James Michael McAdoo 2.0. He should enter the draft this year and take his money. I wouldnt touch him with a ten foot pole.


The article you quoted does mention that NBA execs believe the draft plauteaus from 4/5 to the middle/late, but I think that's because (as is often the case) there's a mix of high-risk/high-ceiling players with low-risk/low-ceiling players with little to help discriminate them.

That doesn't mean they're all destined to become role players, though.

Now, I don't pretend to be a talent evaluator ... I'm just familiar with the ups & downs of previous drafts, and while it's great to have a seemingly can't miss prospect lke Zion, fact is not every prospect develops at the same rate. So, you may very well be right in the case of Reddish, but it's still likely someone who seems pretty raw now will break out later.

For instance the 2011 draft was supposed to be terrible and in fact outside of Kyrie it wasn't all that great for the one & doners ... but it turned out to be a pretty good draft for select upperclassmen like Kemba Walker, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic, Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, and even #60 Isaiah Thomas, though.

I mean... Jimmy Butler as a freshman at Marquette put up 5 & 4, and was 0 for 4 on 3pters .. and was still considered a limited role player his early years in the NBA and here we go tearing up Barrett and Reddish who are contributing to Duke becoming the #1 seed in the tourney?

The talent is usually there ... somewhere, even if we can't see it.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#505 » by Roddy B for 3 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:15 am

lon3lytoaster wrote:What’s the word on Hachimura at 14? Really interesting story there. He’s shooting close to 60% and over 50% from 3 (albeit on 1 attempt/game.)

Rebounding and block numbers don’t stand out but has some solid advanced stats defensively. Wondering what it would take for him to be a true 3/4 hybrid in the NBA.



He's going to have to become/prove himself as a peremeter defender.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#506 » by fraanciiscoo » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:14 pm

we should pick Neemias Queta from utah st this kid have everything we need/want
we could get him now with a late 2nd i think, sorry i know we will rise alot with march madness
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#507 » by Bill Lumbergh » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:14 am

fraanciiscoo wrote:we should pick Neemias Queta from utah st this kid have everything we need/want
we could get him now with a late 2nd i think, sorry i know we will rise alot with march madness

Never heard of him until you wrote this. Just checked out a highlight video (so now, of course, I'm an expert). Don't know his backstory, like how many years he's been playing, but he looks like he's got some special physical tools. He's not on NBAdraft.net's mock, so I wonder if he's even coming out. Thanks for the heads up. I'd like to snag him, too.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#508 » by SmartWentCrazy » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:40 pm

Would trade Brown + all four picks for Morant. A Morant-Smart-Tatum 1-2-3 is perfect.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#509 » by thelarrybirdx » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:44 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Would trade Brown + all four picks for Morant. A Morant-Smart-Tatum 1-2-3 is perfect.


Would definitely have to require Tatum to move to #2, but yeah, I agree.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#510 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:37 am

thelarrybirdx wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Would trade Brown + all four picks for Morant. A Morant-Smart-Tatum 1-2-3 is perfect.


Would definitely have to require Tatum to move to #2, but yeah, I agree.


Naw. No chance. You keep thinking that though.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#511 » by nickgammon » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:49 am

If the Memphis pick conveys and Morant slips to 4, you best believe Danny’s emptying the war chest.

Don’t want to give up Brown or Tatum for him though. They’re perfect complements to Ja, especially Jaylen.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#512 » by Bill Lumbergh » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:54 am

I'm pretty impressed with Kevin Porter's talent. He's mocked as a late first rounder, but he's a high upside guy. He wasn't as productive at USC as his talent would suggest he should have been, so I don't know what his deal his, but he's impressive on film.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#513 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:05 pm

Other guy who’s currently underhyped: De’Andre Hunter. 6’8 wing with a 7’2 wingspan. Can shoot threes and defend. UVA players are typically hindered by their system and I can see him breaking out once he gets to the pro’s like so many other UVA guys before him. Would have to slightly trade up to get him most likely, but the cost shouldnt be too bad.

If we can leave this draft with Hunter, Bol Bol and Matisse Thybulle, ill be ecstatic.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#514 » by thelarrybirdx » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:44 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
thelarrybirdx wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Would trade Brown + all four picks for Morant. A Morant-Smart-Tatum 1-2-3 is perfect.


Would definitely have to require Tatum to move to #2, but yeah, I agree.


Naw. No chance. You keep thinking that though.


Lol because Tatum has shown so much promise this season
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#515 » by Edug27 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:54 pm

thelarrybirdx wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
thelarrybirdx wrote:
Would definitely have to require Tatum to move to #2, but yeah, I agree.


Naw. No chance. You keep thinking that though.


Lol because Tatum has shown so much promise this season


Doubt Jaylen and picks can get you the 2nd pick.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#516 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:35 pm

thelarrybirdx wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
thelarrybirdx wrote:
Would definitely have to require Tatum to move to #2, but yeah, I agree.


Naw. No chance. You keep thinking that though.


Lol because Tatum has shown so much promise this season


Lol imagine actually thinking you’d prefer the #2 pick to Tatum
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#517 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:37 pm

Edug27 wrote:
thelarrybirdx wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Naw. No chance. You keep thinking that though.


Lol because Tatum has shown so much promise this season


Doubt Jaylen and picks can get you the 2nd pick.


Morant wont go 2— too many teams picking high need wings and Barrett will go above him [stupidly].
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#518 » by Almeida » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:03 pm

fraanciiscoo wrote:we should pick Neemias Queta from utah st this kid have everything we need/want
we could get him now with a late 2nd i think, sorry i know we will rise alot with march madness

Yeah, it would be pretty cool if the first Portuguese player to ever be drafted was drafted by the Celtics.
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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#519 » by Homerclease » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:18 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
thelarrybirdx wrote:
Lol because Tatum has shown so much promise this season


Doubt Jaylen and picks can get you the 2nd pick.


Morant wont go 2— too many teams picking high need wings and Barrett will go above him [stupidly].

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Re: 2019 NBA draft 

Post#520 » by Edug27 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:50 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
thelarrybirdx wrote:
Lol because Tatum has shown so much promise this season


Doubt Jaylen and picks can get you the 2nd pick.


Morant wont go 2— too many teams picking high need wings and Barrett will go above him [stupidly].


All depends who gets 2... Phoenix will take Morant. Hawks, Cavs will probably look into Barrett.

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