Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[Darth Celtic]

EDIT: Just noticed that this was my post #13000. How awesome am I?

unmeasurable

[tfmiii]

Clips get a lot out of this. Asking for an extra pick or taking on one of our contracts (Terry/Lee) is not asking much. LA is being cheap. Maybe they have some other good options out there. We'll see. I'm perfectly happy on exploring other options or just letting KG and Doc bow out.

It's not cheap. It's that the team is in talks for other deals as well and feel Hollins/Shaw+Jordan, those 1st rounders and not taking a cap dump isn't much worse than the Celtics deal scenario. Again from the outside Doc is the best coach but you guys have dealt with him for 9 years and seem to think he's highly overrated. So let me ask you guys. Do you feel Doc is a massive upgrade to say Lionel Hollins? Because Hollins, Shaw, Scott, Gentry and many others badly want the Clippers job.

I'll be on pins and needles waiting to hear about these other deals that can vault you into true contention

Aaron Affalo is on his way!

[bs_and_cs]

Thank god this didn;'t go down.

Can't help but laugh at Clippers fans insisting that the Celtics "needed" this.

Yeah, we "needed" to take DeAndre Jordan and his horrid contract. That is just what we needed.

[The Corey's]

Danny has been notoriously stubborn when it's come to getting the "value" back he thinks he deserves through out his Celtic tenure. In particular with Paul, kg and ray.

Jokes on the clippers if they think they can pull a fast one on him.

Everyone says (well not everyone, perhaps anyone not on this forum) that la has the leverage.

Oh really? They want pierce, kg and doc.

Ainge by all accounts doesn't even think DJ is the centerpiece to a deal he would consider. I think the celtics have made the decision that they are rebuilding and gonna do it if kg and doc are on the team or not. So people might think DJ and a late pick is something they otherwise wouldn't of bad but tell doc and kg that. There the ones who aren't willin to walk away from their money if they gotta stay in boston or retire.

I'd rather we get a pick in 2014 and another one in the future. Ill take DJ and butler as their expiring a are gonna net us more than what kg is at the moment apparently.

[tlee324]

EDIT: Just noticed that this was my post #13000. How awesome am I?

unmeasurable

Immeasurable. But I do agree with the sentiment.

[tlee324]

You live in LA and watched the Clippers a few times and you're going to puff your chest out at a guy who hasn't missed a Clipper game in about 9 years? I'm well aware of DJ's shortcomings but to act like he's a NEGATIVE player is patently false and in opposition to facts. He's a 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 2 bpg PER 36 player who had the highest field goal percentage in the league and plays above average defense. His PER wasn't much worse than KG's this year at 17. Point is, overpaid like all decent centers yes. Very flawed and raw, yes. "Garbage", absolutely not. Unless you don't know the game of basketball and analyze the game on small sample sizes or what others tell you.

He's an athlete with no skills, who doesn't know how to play basketball. He is your standard issue 6p/6r, 20mpg backup center who excels at nothing besides dunking and blocked shots. No scoring, no defense, no situational awareness, no BBIQ and atrocious FT shooting.

The Warriors made a huge mistake wasting their amnesty to try to sign this guy away to an overpaid offer sheet, and you guys messed up just as bad by matching it. The idea of paying this guy twice his worth is ridonkulous, and especially with the 13m cap hit. He's Greg Steimsma with a tan and more hops.

Further, he is a huge reason you got bounced in the first round, as you had a $10m big man that you could barely even put on the floor against real competition. Go get a sample size for THAT and get back to me. Per 36 stats, my ass. If the guy could play 36 minutes, he would do that, and you wouldn't have been stuck with guys like Ryan Hollins and Turiaf out there.

Us getting DJ and the 25th pick is like going to Subway and getting a sandwich with no meat. There ain't nothing there. If that deal falling apart works out for you, great. I know it worked out for us.

Last, everyone here grew up watching Bird, Russell, KG, McHale, Cowens, Pierce, Parish, Havlicek, Rondo, etc...

We "know the game of basketball". Celts have played 100+ playoff games in the last 6 years alone. You guys have 64 in your entire franchise history, and only 42 since 1976. With no titles, and never even having made it out of the Conference Semis.

I hope this post of yours reaches double digits in "And 1"s. I'm having trouble understanding the group of NBA fans that are so in love with the athleticism and the "highlightability", and just ignoring that they are not producing on a consistent level as fundamental basketball players... My favorite is the per 36 crap... you gotta be good enough to be out there for 36 minutes a game, in my opinion, for any of that to matter...

[tfmiii]

So in conclusion, Celts fans that oppose any deal with the Clips will end with the following:

PP gets bought out.
Doc leaves for nothing.
KG retires and he still counts against the cap.

So in conclusion, you lost out on a late 1st rounder and Jordan, who's contract expires in the same amount of time as KG's, but Jordan will have more trade value than a retired expiring contract.

Looks like you guys won!!!

no, both teams lost, thought a smart guy like you would have noticed that

look up prisoner's dilemma, we learned about that in game theory at MIT, don't they teach that at your ivy league school?

the loss to the Celts is in terms of a couple low level chits in a rebuild which was inevitable, loss to the Clips is possibility to contend for one or two banners...

one side negotiated in good faith, the other stonewalled (except when it came to the media)

it's all good though, apparently KG is not even as valuable as Aaron Affalo, Pierce not even worth mentioning. Doc, too expensive... coaches are a dime a dozen... why shell out $7 mil? i look forward with baited breath to mona's reporting on the latest blockbuster from clipperland... leave no stone unturned!

oh, and you might want to retire the strawman 'celtics fans who opposed any trade with clips' - it is not opposition to any deal just one in particular... and maybe the sour taste left by the lack of good manners in the interlocutors as well.

[tfmiii]

You live in LA and watched the Clippers a few times and you're going to puff your chest out at a guy who hasn't missed a Clipper game in about 9 years? I'm well aware of DJ's shortcomings but to act like he's a NEGATIVE player is patently false and in opposition to facts. He's a 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 2 bpg PER 36 player who had the highest field goal percentage in the league and plays above average defense. His PER wasn't much worse than KG's this year at 17. Point is, overpaid like all decent centers yes. Very flawed and raw, yes. "Garbage", absolutely not. Unless you don't know the game of basketball and analyze the game on small sample sizes or what others tell you.

He doesn't play that kind of minutes. If you are citing his per 36 you are either missing a big shortcoming, or trying to hide it. Been referenced several times in this thread.

What's Fab Melo's PER 36?

EDIT: Just noticed that this was my post #13000. How awesome am I?

you are S U P E R D E L U X E

[tfmiii]

Also, how is CP/Pierce/Blake/KG a contender, when Rondo/Pierce/Green/KG isn't? Is Blake that good?

Blake and CP3 are that much better

[Avalanche]

I honestly cannot believe the Clippers wouldnt budge from Jordan and 1 late pick to get the coach they wanted (for 5 years) and Kevin Garnett when they are trying to win a championship and keep Chris Paul around..

No wonder they are getting chewed out by nearly everyone for not giving any in negotiations

I get why some people saw SOME value in this from our end, but honestly.. Jordan is on big money and do you really think he would accept less than his current deal when he is 26-27? He'd probably be looking for max money and that is rediculous

Honestly, if we are looking to rebuild then maybe nothing is better than getting him anyway.. If the vets including Doc all just walk away it makes the team considerably worse, saves a lot of money and gives us more flexibility.. or maybe Danny sits down with Doc, speaks with KG/Pierce and says he will organise something else for them before the offseason is up

The rest of the league just heard that Garnett/Doc could be had for Jordan and 2 late picks if Garnett was willing to give up the no trade clause and they team was good enough for Doc to want to coach, personally I think there is more than just one situation in the league that might be interested in that.. especially If Pierce could potentially be traded, bought out and signed for cheap as well

Dont fret over this not going through, Danny has obviously made his decision on where this team needs to go but he wasnt willing to get taken advantage of just for the sake of it, him not yielding on this has given me more faith in him then I had while these negotiations were ongoing

[tfmiii]

Did the Clippers know that they would be getting Pierce in a roundabout way through this deal?

I can't believe they would turn down KG, Terry/Lee, opportunity to have Pierce, Doc for DJ and 2 1st rounders.

yes, but apparently they did not value Pierce all that highly...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkHeisler/status/347085349907992578[/tweet]

for that matter they did not value KG or Doc that highly either it would seem...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkHeisler/status/347088885601415168[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkHeisler/status/347139208537858048[/tweet]

in short, they bought their own propaganda - 'our guys great! Celts guys lousy!'

but Aaron Affalo, whoooo boy!

[Marvel]

^I'm not surprised. And they risk losing CP3 on top of it. WOW they've taken stupidity to new levels.

[Avalanche]

Man, would be great to see CP leave now with a "they werent committed to winning" type comment

[tfmiii]

best day for Lakers in entire 2012-13 season!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkHeisler/status/347141328284565504[/tweet]

[bs_and_cs]

I'm praying with every bone in my body that CP3 leaves.

[165bows]

best day for Lakers in entire 2012-13 season!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkHeisler/status/347141328284565504[/tweet]

I am going to take some solace that this whole mess is what counts as good news for the Lakers lately.

[165bows]

I keep coming back to the first Gerald Wallace trade as a comp for this deal. Wallace was in the midst of a 15/8 season for Charlotte, at around $10M. He got traded for two lotto protected firsts, that could be expected to be around 20 give or take. At the time, Wallace had a year and a half left on his deal.

To me, that makes KG worth two late firsts as a no-brainer. Sure, Wallace is younger so the production is similar but the age is not. But you really acquire the guy for the length of the contract. You can't control the player after the deal ends, and while Wallace basically bottomed out within two years, he could have just as easily blown up and left for a better deal. Point being, you acquire the player for the life of the deal. After that is a crapshoot. Yes, KG is older, but he is tall, skilled and professional and those don't go away.

So with KG, the addition of Doc, and the anticipated addition of Paul Pierce, Danny did the right thing. He wasn't being offered enough value for what he was giving up, especially given that these three guys were the face of the franchise for five plus years. Or, pretty much what everyone here has been saying the past few days.

[sully00]

I don't think the Clippers really wanted KG, they wanted to hire Doc as their coach and I think they wanted to poison the pool and they were successful. They got Ainge dreaming of draft picks and cap solutions and now he has pimped his coach out on the market and now they have to have the sit down. Ainge is going to have to decide if he just wants let Doc out of his deal so that ownership can save the 21 mil or if he is going to try and force the marriage to continue after trying to essentially sell his wife for having a wandering eye. However it ends it is going to end badly.

I think there is a chance Ainge got played and the Clippers will end up with Doc for nothing.

[GreenMachine]

I don't think the Clippers really wanted KG, they wanted to hire Doc as their coach and I think they wanted to poison the pool and they were successful. They got Ainge dreaming of draft picks and cap solutions and now he has pimped his coach out on the market and now they have to have the sit down. Ainge is going to have to decide if he just wants let Doc out of his deal so that ownership can save the 21 mil or if he is going to try and force the marriage to continue after trying to essentially sell his wife for having a wandering eye. However it ends it is going to end badly.

I think there is a chance Ainge got played and the Clippers will end up with Doc for nothing.

Zero chance.

[Red2]

its donald sterling for crying out loud.