The Official Off-Season Thread, part I of many

[Curmudgeon]

Even if Duncan, Ginobili and David Weest decline their options, the Spurs do not have the cap space to add a max free agent next year. They can speculate all they want about Durant and Conley, but it isn't happening unless they dump salary.

And even if they are able to trade someone like Danny Green-- say Danny Green straight up for Amir Johnson on draft night-- adding Conley or Horford to that core does not make them a contender. Perhaps adding Durant does, but why should a team like Boston facilitate San Antonio's decision to snatch Durant without getting real value in return?

The Spurs are an aging team that was embarrassed by OKC in the playoffs. Father time has caught up to them, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. It's simply a question of how long the decline will be before they rise again.

Chamberlain was traded (twice). So were Kareem, Mourning, Rodman, Dennis Johnson, Barkley, Moses Malone, Dominique Wilkins, Walt Bellamy, Tiny Archibald, Earl Monroe, Lovelette, Maravich, Parrish, Thurmond, DeBusschere and Jerry Lucas.

[165bows]

Scal with a thinly veiled prop for Boston as a FA destination on his recent Vertical spot.

Names Miami and Houston as top locations due to weather, night life and low taxes. Boston and Utah as best basketball locales.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/scalabrine/status/739790000112422913[/tweet]

[SichtingLives]

It was Tony Parker who obviously has been killing them and needs to go. If they replace him with Conley, they are very much still right in the thick of it. Hell they could replace him with a pedestrian point guard who isn't past his prime and still do better than current TP. They've effectively phased out Duncan to where he is not asked to be more than a role player. Ginobili the same. They have a great core right now, still. This is the same short-sighted panic logic that broke up a Heat team that was very much a contender in need of some minor tweaks a few years ago. You don't blow up a legit contending situation until you've exhausted your options. That's what we did here, ran it off the rails and bailed when it was (beyond) cooked, seizing a great deal to start over with in the process. Lebron absolutely blew it bailing on Miami due to a simple ego punt to the face in the finals (hindsight w/ Bosh notwithstanding). That was his shot to build a real legacy with a true alpha taking that heat off his back, the way it needs to be for him to thrive, the way he is downright desperate for someone like Chris Paul to save his ass. Different story tho. SA might find themselves forced into a rebuilding scenario in a few years but right now they are NBA light years away from having to make that decision. And of all front offices who would blow what they have there, SA's is on the bottom of the list.

[soxfan2003]

It was Tony Parker who obviously has been killing them and needs to go. If they replace him with Conley, they are very much still right in the thick of it. Hell they could replace him with a pedestrian point guard who isn't past his prime and still do better than current TP. They've effectively phased out Duncan to where he is not asked to be more than a role player. Ginobili the same. They have a great core right now, still. This is the same short-sighted panic logic that broke up a Heat team that was very much a contender in need of some minor tweaks a few years ago. You don't blow up a legit contending situation until you've exhausted your options. That's what we did here, ran it off the rails and bailed when it was (beyond) cooked, seizing a great deal to start over with in the process. Lebron absolutely blew it bailing on Miami due to a simple ego punt to the face in the finals (hindsight w/ Bosh notwithstanding). That was his shot to build a real legacy with a true alpha taking that heat off his back, the way it needs to be for him to thrive, the way he is downright desperate for someone like Chris Paul to save his ass. Different story tho. SA might find themselves forced into a rebuilding scenario in a few years but right now they are NBA light years away from having to make that decision. And of all front offices who would blow what they have there, SA's is on the bottom of the list.

I agree with you on Parker...

However, leaving Miami was the right decision for Lebron since the Heat seemed done and I think were done. Heat would be looking like this years Cavs against the Warriors. The Heat role players were just brutal -- ready for retirement homes -- and Wade was getting too old to hustle on the biggest stage. His defense was comical at times. Bosh was declining as well. Lebron played brilliantly against SAS and the Heat were still smashed. It was over for them. Not as much as the 2012 Celtics after RA left but still over.

But and I said it at the time repeatedly, trading Wiggins plus a couple of assets for Love was a mistake/bad gamble... especially on a team that had Irving who was a known bad defender. Pundit after pundit pointed out pretty irrefutable evidence the guy was a bad defender but he still had serious trade value.

The Warriors being this good was unexpected but the Cavs were building a team with a level of defense that rarely wins championships.

Keep Wiggins, trade Irving for a player that fits better and wisely use the picks you have from Miami and elsewhere and the Cavs had a great shot at winning int this year. But they were hellbent on trying to win it in Lebron's first year in Cleveland -- not willing to wait for Wiggins or any other young player to start developing --- and that was unlikely.

Now the Spurs situation is not a rebuild situation. 67 wins and your best player is 24 and you have some flexibility to legitimately get better is not a rebuild situation. And the Spurs have a bunch of good contracts except for Tony Parker who is at least a name that some PG starved team may trade for.

The Spurs were not embarrassed in this years playoffs like the Heat were in the finals. They almost really had the Thunder on the ropes.

[Murta]

#3 to Knicks, Melo to Cavs, Love to Celtics

Who says no? IDK if I'd do it from Cs perspective, but does Danny say no?

[Curmudgeon]

Celtics say no. Love isn't worth #3, especially with his cap clogging deal.

[Celts17Pride]

#3 to Knicks, Melo to Cavs, Love to Celtics

Who says no? IDK if I'd do it from Cs perspective, but does Danny say no?

Let's see, Love or someone like Bender for the 3rd pick? That's a no brainer. Give me some Love.

That said, Cavs say no.

[canman1971]

Celtics say no. Love isn't worth #3, especially with his cap clogging deal.

I think the Love window has closed, especially for the #3 pick. He just doesn't address any of this team's needs.

[Curmudgeon]

Can you imagine a team built around Rondo (given a long term extension) and Love (signed long-term for the max) given where both of them are today? I cringe to think about it. Not even Brad Stevens could make chicken salad out of that.

[BleedGreen1989]

Can you imagine a team built around Rondo (given a long term extension) and Love (signed long-term for the max) given where both of them are today? I cringe to think about it. Not even Brad Stevens could make chicken salad out of that.

Even better, slap Omer Asik and Jeff Green with long term contracts on there, that was once a thought.

Shows what I know. You could of easily talked my into locking myself into a Rondo/Bradley/Green/Love/Asik core.

[Kenhov]

Anytime a white player of any talent is available Boston and the stereotype kicks in.

I really detest the natural inclination even on the trade board to assume that once Love doesn't work out at Cleveland, Boston will be dying to get him. The whole Dragan bender MUST go to Boston thing is also predicated on this mythical need for the next Bird like white superstar figure to sate the supposed typical Boston fan.

I don't want Love because I think he is soft and he will exist very happily on a Boston team that loses over and over again early in the playoffs whilst rebuilding his rep as a triple double machine.

No thanks.

I do think Gordon Hayward would be a better fit than Jimmy Butler. He has more potential with the 3 ball and Stevens knows his game well.

I also have come over to the fact that Dwight Howard at this stage of his career is underrated. In a defined limited role I think he will be incredible. I detested his game enough over the years but he would be the biggest centre upgrade we have ever had even at this declined stage.

IT / Rozier
Bradley / Smart
Hayward / Crowder
Horford (Ryan Anderson) / KO
Howard / Mahinimi

This team could be surprisingly very difficult to beat.

Ryan Anderson is a terrible defender but a lights out shooter.

The lineup with Al Horford instead of Ryan Anderson (my other thought) would be an incredible defensive team but would not be a great shooting team but would still be difficult to beat.

3 and 16 and RJ Hunter would have to go to Utah to get Hayward. We could have enough leftovers to trade up and get someone like Buddy Hield to plug in immediately.

[London2Boston]

Celtics say no. Love isn't worth #3, especially with his cap clogging deal.

Of course he's worth the #3 and I'm not even that big on the guy. Hell, I don't even want him, but you would be more than happy if whoever you pick at #3 ends up as good as Love.

[Murta]

I do think Gordon Hayward would be a better fit than Jimmy Butler. He has more potential with the 3 ball and Stevens knows his game well.

I also have come over to the fact that Dwight Howard at this stage of his career is underrated. In a defined limited role I think he will be incredible. I detested his game enough over the years but he would be the biggest centre upgrade we have ever had even at this declined stage.

IT / Rozier
Bradley / Smart
Hayward / Crowder
Horford (Ryan Anderson) / KO
Howard / Mahinimi

This team could be surprisingly very difficult to beat.

Ryan Anderson is a terrible defender but a lights out shooter.

The lineup with Al Horford instead of Ryan Anderson (my other thought) would be an incredible defensive team but would not be a great shooting team but would still be difficult to beat.

3 and 16 and RJ Hunter would have to go to Utah to get Hayward. We could have enough leftovers to trade up and get someone like Buddy Hield to plug in immediately.

The problem with Hayward is that his contract expires in 2017 and we really don't know how much he'd ask or he's worth. But we'd sure as hell have to pay the guy from whom the 3rd pick is traded. If another team offers Hayward full max, do Celtics match?

[Kenhov]

Thats a tough one.

Hopefully the relationship with Stevens will help.

[Jingles]

Celtics say no. Love isn't worth #3, especially with his cap clogging deal.

Of course he's worth the #3 and I'm not even that big on the guy. Hell, I don't even want him, but you would be more than happy if whoever you pick at #3 ends up as good as Love.

Love is only worth the 3 if you know Durant is coming behind him. That's one of the only ways you can recoup some of the value you just set on fire by acquiring a defensive nightmare with diminishing physical skills and back problems.

I wouldn't go balls to the wall for impending FA Hayward in trade if the back channels may be suggesting that he's interested in coming to play for CBS again. Might be our one true unique free agent "in."

[2Mas]

I'm a believer in all these talented players. Love, Dwight, idk you can add other players who have talent but have had a bad season or two recently. I think the team/cultural/coaching/personnel.

Dwight was getting 16-11 on 10fga's when HOU went to the WCF. & He was battling knee issues that whole year & missed half the season. Even this year he was getting 13-12-2 on not even 9 shots a game.

Now i'm not tryna max him out (could see a team like the Hornets doing that), but i'd be down to get him for sure. best C we'd have since who knows when. I think that 16-11 & touching the ball more, & being shown more love would make him that much better.

Same with Love. Always picked on, not used correctly, not a ideal personality with LBJ. But if he was in a situation where he was happier, I can def see him playing better.

[Edug27]

Even if Duncan, Ginobili and David Weest decline their options, the Spurs do not have the cap space to add a max free agent next year. They can speculate all they want about Durant and Conley, but it isn't happening unless they dump salary.

And even if they are able to trade someone like Danny Green-- say Danny Green straight up for Amir Johnson on draft night-- adding Conley or Horford to that core does not make them a contender. Perhaps adding Durant does, but why should a team like Boston facilitate San Antonio's decision to snatch Durant without getting real value in return?

The Spurs are an aging team that was embarrassed by OKC in the playoffs. Father time has caught up to them, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. It's simply a question of how long the decline will be before they rise again.

Chamberlain was traded (twice). So were Kareem, Mourning, Rodman, Dennis Johnson, Barkley, Moses Malone, Dominique Wilkins, Walt Bellamy, Tiny Archibald, Earl Monroe, Lovelette, Maravich, Parrish, Thurmond, DeBusschere and Jerry Lucas.

What type of nonsense?? Aging? Khawi is 24 and LMA is 30. Those were the top 2 players for the Spurs this season. Those are the 2 players who are most responsible for that 67 win season. Adding Conley and Horford doesn't make them a contender??? Oy vey.

Embarrassed by OKC? They lost in 6. Came within 4 pts in game 5 to making it a 7 game series. They lost in 7 to the Clips last season in the first round and everyone called them old and done as well and they came back better.

The Spurs need a younger supporting cast. The core is already in place. I think Conley is a strong possibility for them as well.

[Writebloc]

Kevin Love makes me want to throw up in my mouth. No way.

[Curmudgeon]

If the Spurs want Conley they will have to trade someone for expiring contracts. Conley ain't coming for 10 million a year-- and they can only afford that if Duncan, Ginobili and West decline their options. Why don't you propose a realistic scenario? Parker has little or no value. Green has some value, but not a whole lot. Both of those guys had mediocre years. Look at the Spurs payroll and tell me how you are going to fit a $15M player under a $90M cap.

And no, Conley doesn't get them anywhere close to Golden State, especially with Duncan and Ginobili riding off into the sunset. LaMarcus Aldridge was a disappointment in the playoffs, just as he was for all of those years in Portland. He's a very nice player, but he's a ball stopper who shoots too many long two pointers. Unless a team can challenge the Warriors, it's not a contender in the West. It's a faux contender.

[sam_I_am]

If the Spurs want Conley they will have to trade someone for expiring contracts. Conley ain't coming for 10 million a year-- and they can only afford that if Duncan, Ginobili and West decline their options. Why don't you propose a realistic scenario? Parker has little or no value. Green has some value, but not a whole lot. Both of those guys had mediocre years. Look at the Spurs payroll and tell me how you are going to fit a $15M player under a $90M cap.

And no, Conley doesn't get them anywhere close to Golden State, especially with Duncan and Ginobili riding off into the sunset. LaMarcus Aldridge was a disappointment in the playoffs, just as he was for all of those years in Portland. He's a very nice player, but he's a ball stopper who shoots too many long two pointers. Unless a team can challenge the Warriors, it's not a contender in the West. It's a faux contender.

I see your point in regards to cap flexibility. However, Spurs did not rely on Ginobili and Duncan this year. They won 67 games. They blew out OKC in game 1. OKC choked away a 3-1 lead and got jobbed by refs when Green wasn't suspended for obvious flagrant 2. GSW are crushing the East. Spurs could do nothing and expect that better chemistry with Aldridge plus maturity of their franchise wing makes them a contender again next year. Curry and Klay are dynamic but Barnes might be gone, age and injury could diminish Bogut/Iggy/Livingston and Curry's ankles could sideline him at any time.

The smart move is to stand pat and tweak roster. If they can finagle a way to add another good player or replace Parker - fine. Aldridge and Kawhi are just as good a 1-2 as Klay/Curry in many ways.... its just that GSW have top 7 lottery picks in Livingston, Barnes, Bogut, Iggy plus Draymond Green to augment them. All possible due to shrewd below market contracts. GSW cannot last and probably cannot be duplicated until next time there is an absurd jump in salary cap 3 years in a row (not likely ever again)