The (Quintessential) Trade Thread, 2017 (Part 5.0)

[Edug27]

I reckon any deal for Butler/George will be in the offseason... when both Chicago actually do a review and choose their direction going forward (sell off and tank or build around Jimmy) and Indiana ask PG13 to sign an extension to which he will either say yes or no.

Exactly. Also, it prevents Boston from overpaying. At the deadline, Indy and Chicago would do the deal assuming the Nets pick is in the 3 range. If it lands top overall and Danny isn't head over heels in love with Fultz or Ball, then you won't have to include the players you'd have to include at the deadline to make a deal work.

IT, Hayward and PG are 3 players who fit the system and 3 players who can all create their own shot. Imagine that... 3 players who can create a shot?

[darrendaye]

Wait, so is the 2017 BKN pick on the table for either Butler and George, based on what Ainge has been saying in the media?

Well, technically he said it's open to discussion, not that it is being offered.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Butler needs the ball in his hands offensively-- it's why he, Wade and Rondo didn't work out. I'm not sure it's much different here with IT. George is a much better off ball player and provides much better spacing.

The major difference in that equation is that IT can shoot and those guys can't. A lot of success this season seems to come from IT initially off-ball and doing work against an already scrambling D.

I think Butler may be the better fit simply because Crowder is better than AB if that makes sense.

Yes and no. Our bigs spacing and IT's shooting definitely differentiates the situation with Chicago, but I'm still not sure he's the best fit here.

He's shooting better this year, but you still attack Butler defensively by daring him to shoot. Having a defender sagging off Butler allows for him to help and rotate quicker when Isaiah drives. Butlers game may improve but IT would be negatively impacted.

George is a much better fit. He's a different class of a shooter and would help to further space the floor. He would accentuate IT, and likely improve himself with another first option.

[darrendaye]

I reckon any deal for Butler/George will be in the offseason... when both Chicago actually do a review and choose their direction going forward (sell off and tank or build around Jimmy) and Indiana ask PG13 to sign an extension to which he will either say yes or no.

Exactly. Also, it prevents Boston from overpaying. At the deadline, Indy and Chicago would do the deal assuming the Nets pick is in the 3 range. If it lands top overall and Danny isn't head over heels in love with Fultz or Ball, then you won't have to include the players you'd have to include at the deadline to make a deal work.

IT, Hayward and PG are 3 players who fit the system and 3 players who can all create their own shot. Imagine that... 3 players who can create a shot?

Exactly. If they can get Hayward, perhaps the conversation shifts to PG with Horford being included in a 3 team trade scenario. It's been suggested for the past couple of years that George is best used at PF, though he apparently is balking at this point.

[165bows]

I reckon any deal for Butler/George will be in the offseason... when both Chicago actually do a review and choose their direction going forward (sell off and tank or build around Jimmy) and Indiana ask PG13 to sign an extension to which he will either say yes or no.

Exactly. Also, it prevents Boston from overpaying. At the deadline, Indy and Chicago would do the deal assuming the Nets pick is in the 3 range. If it lands top overall and Danny isn't head over heels in love with Fultz or Ball, then you won't have to include the players you'd have to include at the deadline to make a deal work.

IT, Hayward and PG are 3 players who fit the system and 3 players who can all create their own shot. Imagine that... 3 players who can create a shot?

It also makes crowder at the four much more feasible and effective. He's been great there at times, but when the other four guys with him are all hugely undersized it blows the whole thing up. Butler-Hayward-Crowder, it should go back to working again.

[ConstableGeneva]

I feel like we're not talking about Gallo enough.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I reckon any deal for Butler/George will be in the offseason... when both Chicago actually do a review and choose their direction going forward (sell off and tank or build around Jimmy) and Indiana ask PG13 to sign an extension to which he will either say yes or no.

PG already said he wouldn't commit to an extension. If Indy wants to maximize their return, it behooves them to deal him by the deadline.

[Green89]

I feel like we're not talking about Gallo enough.

I'm just not sure he's a Crowder upgrade. Crowder shoots a better percentage in both 2s and 3s, and their PERs are nearly identical. Crowder is better on defense. Both are somewhat injury prone with Gallo even worse than Jae. His 3 more PPG would probably even out if he came here and he'd get about the 14 Jae gets now.

[Pacino62]

Just out of curiosity, how much better do people think Butler is then Hayward?

Quite a bit because of defense. However, IMO Hayward is far superior in offense and is a closer. Got to look at both ends though. Butler is in that second tier, while Hayward is one below.

Like em both.

And Butler is a tier below KG and likely PP too. Is Butler a Brown or Fultz + tier better?

This is my issue with trading for Butler now. He's closer to Ray Allen than KG. The Allen deal only made sense after Ainge knew he had an avenue to KG beforehand. Ainge already went second shoe first, signing Horford trying to lure KD. Let's not do it again. At least until you know what you are giving up. Can't want until this deadline passes. Usually eat this up, but, while I typically like Ainge's tactics in trades, I fear he might be too married to IT/Horford and do something rash.

Through back channels Ainge should have an idea whether he has a legit shot at Hayward by the draft.

Yep. Hence "the second tier" comment. No Brooklyn pics for Jimmy. Like I said, I like both players. Not comparing either to the likes of Pierce, KG or even George (who IMO is in that top tier).

[Edug27]

I reckon any deal for Butler/George will be in the offseason... when both Chicago actually do a review and choose their direction going forward (sell off and tank or build around Jimmy) and Indiana ask PG13 to sign an extension to which he will either say yes or no.

Exactly. Also, it prevents Boston from overpaying. At the deadline, Indy and Chicago would do the deal assuming the Nets pick is in the 3 range. If it lands top overall and Danny isn't head over heels in love with Fultz or Ball, then you won't have to include the players you'd have to include at the deadline to make a deal work.

IT, Hayward and PG are 3 players who fit the system and 3 players who can all create their own shot. Imagine that... 3 players who can create a shot?

Exactly. If they can get Hayward, perhaps the conversation shifts to PG with Horford being included in a 3 team trade scenario. It's been suggested for the past couple of years that George is best used at PF, though he apparently is balking at this point.

I don't know about all of that. I think Horford is your ideal small ball 5. Plus it's bad business to trade away the one good free agent this franchise was able to sign after just a year. Too many assets on this team to have to include Horford.

- Sign Hayward
- Trade Fultz/Ball, and some combo of Rozier, Young, Crowder etc for George.
- Shop Avery.

[Homerclease]

Exactly. Also, it prevents Boston from overpaying. At the deadline, Indy and Chicago would do the deal assuming the Nets pick is in the 3 range. If it lands top overall and Danny isn't head over heels in love with Fultz or Ball, then you won't have to include the players you'd have to include at the deadline to make a deal work.

IT, Hayward and PG are 3 players who fit the system and 3 players who can all create their own shot. Imagine that... 3 players who can create a shot?

Exactly. If they can get Hayward, perhaps the conversation shifts to PG with Horford being included in a 3 team trade scenario. It's been suggested for the past couple of years that George is best used at PF, though he apparently is balking at this point.

I don't know about all of that. I think Horford is your ideal small ball 5. Plus it's bad business to trade away the one good free agent this franchise was able to sign after just a year. Too many assets on this team to have to include Horford.

- Sign Hayward
- Trade Fultz/Ball, and some combo of Rozier, Young, Crowder etc for George.
- Shop Avery.

This is the dream scenario.

[Edug27]

I feel like we're not talking about Gallo enough.

I'm just not sure he's a Crowder upgrade. Crowder shoots a better percentage in both 2s and 3s, and their PERs are nearly identical. Crowder is better on defense. Both are somewhat injury prone with Gallo even worse than Jae. His 3 more PPG would probably even out if he came here and he'd get about the 14 Jae gets now.

All Crowder does is stand there and chuck 3's. he's streaky. He doesn't really provide much more offensively, and his defense is a bit overrated. Gallo (who I don't even want btw) provides so much more to the team than Crowder. It goes wayyyy beyond shooting % numbers. He can create. He can pass. He can drive. Add a different dimension to the team. Also, Gallos shooting numbers and efficiency would be better playing in our system... just as Crowder probably wouldn't have all the open looks playing in Denver.

[reload141]

Exactly. If they can get Hayward, perhaps the conversation shifts to PG with Horford being included in a 3 team trade scenario. It's been suggested for the past couple of years that George is best used at PF, though he apparently is balking at this point.

I don't know about all of that. I think Horford is your ideal small ball 5. Plus it's bad business to trade away the one good free agent this franchise was able to sign after just a year. Too many assets on this team to have to include Horford.

- Sign Hayward
- Trade Fultz/Ball, and some combo of Rozier, Young, Crowder etc for George.
- Shop Avery.

This is the dream scenario.

Agreed. Pairing George & Hayward with IT & Horford is ideal... I fully trust in Zizic and/or a Vet Min big man helping down low... we need ELITE wings and while I love Bradley (we can't be the ones to pay him) and Crowder (amazing year on such a cheap contract it's ridiculous) we can't win a title with non-elite wings.

[ConstableGeneva]

I feel like we're not talking about Gallo enough.

I'm just not sure he's a Crowder upgrade. Crowder shoots a better percentage in both 2s and 3s, and their PERs are nearly identical. Crowder is better on defense. Both are somewhat injury prone with Gallo even worse than Jae. His 3 more PPG would probably even out if he came here and he'd get about the 14 Jae gets now.

Wow, someone bit. I was half-kidding. I was just wondering since he was among the names mentioned in the Bulpett article. Isn't he considered a "rental" or is Ainge willing to sign him in the offseason if Hayward/Griffin fell through?

He's an upgrade to Jerebko in staggered bench lineups and also an upgrade offensively (can create his own shot) from both Bradley and Crowder in crunch time lineups. He and Crowder could switch as SF/PF in the starting lineup if Stevens decides to just double down on the all-offense, no rebounding thing (think Ariza/Anderson in Houston except they're a much better rebounding team).

[Edug27]

Exactly. If they can get Hayward, perhaps the conversation shifts to PG with Horford being included in a 3 team trade scenario. It's been suggested for the past couple of years that George is best used at PF, though he apparently is balking at this point.

I don't know about all of that. I think Horford is your ideal small ball 5. Plus it's bad business to trade away the one good free agent this franchise was able to sign after just a year. Too many assets on this team to have to include Horford.

- Sign Hayward
- Trade Fultz/Ball, and some combo of Rozier, Young, Crowder etc for George.
- Shop Avery.

This is the dream scenario.

Not to get ahead of myself, but let's say all of this does happen. And next season an all star big man becomes available.. Does another team have a better possible package of Nets18 and Brown?

[Celts17Pride]

I feel like we're not talking about Gallo enough.

I'm just not sure he's a Crowder upgrade. Crowder shoots a better percentage in both 2s and 3s, and their PERs are nearly identical. Crowder is better on defense. Both are somewhat injury prone with Gallo even worse than Jae. His 3 more PPG would probably even out if he came here and he'd get about the 14 Jae gets now.

If the Celtics do get Gallo he would not be taking Crowder's spot. Gallo would be taking Jerebko's slot along side KO

[ConstableGeneva]

Exactly. If they can get Hayward, perhaps the conversation shifts to PG with Horford being included in a 3 team trade scenario. It's been suggested for the past couple of years that George is best used at PF, though he apparently is balking at this point.

I don't know about all of that. I think Horford is your ideal small ball 5. Plus it's bad business to trade away the one good free agent this franchise was able to sign after just a year. Too many assets on this team to have to include Horford.

- Sign Hayward
- Trade Fultz/Ball, and some combo of Rozier, Young, Crowder etc for George.
- Shop Avery.

This is the dream scenario.

I thought dream scenario was the second line to be trade for Anthony Davis. Maybe just my dream.

[Edug27]

I don't know about all of that. I think Horford is your ideal small ball 5. Plus it's bad business to trade away the one good free agent this franchise was able to sign after just a year. Too many assets on this team to have to include Horford.

- Sign Hayward
- Trade Fultz/Ball, and some combo of Rozier, Young, Crowder etc for George.
- Shop Avery.

This is the dream scenario.

I thought dream scenario was the second line to be trade for Anthony Davis. Maybe just my dream.

**Realistic dreams

If you're talking fantasy, I'd rather have Lebron than AD.

[jirrit]

Doubt Either one joins, but who would you guys prefer out of PG or Butler? I'm torn.

It's very close for me right now. I have Butler slightly ahead because I think he is currently better and has the additional year on his contract, but George shoots better, is half a year younger, and is longer so I expect him to age more gracefully. Will ultimately come down to price.

They both seem to be sulking this season, but it's notable to me how it seems that Butler is playing better despite it.

Position wise there's also a difference, no? SG-SF vs SF-small ball PF or am I wrong?

[Marvel]

Would the BKN 17, Smart, Crowder be too much for PG/Jimmy?