Celtics General Thread 2019-20, "Re-Start"

[5InOfLouisville]

GB might quiet when RPM comes out and Tatum is 5th on the list in RPM, 5th in win shares, and 2nd in def RPM....

He's a jump in efficiency away from being a top 15 player, I think people underestimate just how valuable a legitimate two way stud is.

I think part of it is a young guy getting his first taste of real freedom, figuring out what he does best and honing it.

I get frustrated with the missed layups, but I do think he will clean that up.

I like his mental makeup, and at the end of a shot clock, quarter, or game, I like the ball in his hands. I expect that shot to go in now, and more importantly, it looks like he does too.

I don't want to crown him yet, but there sure is a lot of potential there.

[sam_I_am]

Our team is 3rd best in NBA and it feels like they should be playing so much better. Pacer, Sixers and Dallas games showed a disturbing trend of letting an outlet type player - Holiday, Scott, Curry - really do damage and let a game that was under control slip away or almost slip away in Dallas. I gotta think a healthy Smart changes that dynamic.

I also think a healthy Hayward on West Coast trip might have changed outcome in 1 of the games - Sac, Den, LAC.

With 2-3 less losses the Celtics are right there with Lakers and Bucks. With very big roles entrusted to young players, the Celtics are a team that barring injury should get stronger as year progresses.

I still can’t believe how fun this year is turning out!

[Gant]

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[zoyathedestroya]

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Would not be against strategic resting. Except our depth is ****, injuries or not. So we may lose some winnable games along the way. I do hope we don't rest our key guys for marquee matchups.

Here's the sched:



Rest vs. ATL, vs. SAS, vs. DET, vs. MEM
Can't rest @ PHI, @MIL, vs. LAL, @MIA, vs. PHI, @HOU, vs. LAC

JMHO.

[Roddy]

GB might quiet when RPM comes out and Tatum is 5th on the list in RPM, 5th in win shares, and 2nd in def RPM....

He's a jump in efficiency away from being a top 15 player, I think people underestimate just how valuable a legitimate two way stud is.

We are C's fans, we overestimate most of our players (don't tell me this is not true...) and others fanbase underestimate our players.

I know we are in an era where everybody like to look at the stats and metrics BEFORE watching the games (just go to the GB where people like to judge players on their TS% without watching the players play).

There are some things I hate on Tatum's game (same with Jaylen). But I know that these things can be fix with work and experience. And we should be very pleased to have young guys like them who are hard workers and want to improve their game.

The ONE thing I really hate about our team this season, is that almost no one is boxing out. This is a fundamental skill ! They really need to work on it.

Right now we are probably a 2nd round exit team. I don't expect more. But the future might be bright if everybody keep their feet firmly on the ground (which is hard for basketball players )

[keevsnick1]

His defense doesn’t get enough respect. It’s just assumed that Smart and Brown are better defensively but Tatum may be having a greater impact on that end than either of those two this season.

Tatum's defense gets a big boost from playing like 40-50% of his minutes against second units thanks to the c's substitution patterns. He also only has to play the opposing teams 3rd or 4th best offensive option most nights. That said I do like his team defense, he has excelled in the role he's been placed in defensively. I just think Brown/Smart are clearly better/more impactful on defense then Tatum is given what he's asked to do.

Again, he deserves more respect than you are giving him. He is blocking or altering shots as help defender, grabbing contested rebounds in traffic and getting to loose balls. When the team needs a big stop it is often Tatum in on the big stop or turnover. He may not be locking anybody down, but he impacts that side of the floor in a similar way that Larry Bird did....just not as furiously yet. As far as getting a break leading the second unit....he is asked to carry that unit on his back offensively and more often than not is leading it defensively too.

I agree offensively, defensively its not that hard to carry a second unit. You are facing vastly inferior offensive players at that point. Although even on 2nd units he rarely covers the best on ball guy. Still gets outmuscled or beat off the drive a lot on ball. Look, I'm not saying he isnt good defensively just that I don't think he is as good/impactful as Brown or Smart have been on that end which was the thesis of the original statement.

[zoyathedestroya]

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[Shak_Celts]

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GOAT answer!! They said holiday, not Xmas! Hah got em!! Nice job Rob!! BOL

[zoyathedestroya]

I can't help but wonder if Kemba called and consulted Lebron first before deciding to give them those gifts.

[Gomes3PC]

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GOAT answer!! They said holiday, not Xmas! Hah got em!! Nice job Rob!! BOL

When you're the Timelord, any day can be Halloween.

[sam_I_am]

Tatum's defense gets a big boost from playing like 40-50% of his minutes against second units thanks to the c's substitution patterns. He also only has to play the opposing teams 3rd or 4th best offensive option most nights. That said I do like his team defense, he has excelled in the role he's been placed in defensively. I just think Brown/Smart are clearly better/more impactful on defense then Tatum is given what he's asked to do.

Again, he deserves more respect than you are giving him. He is blocking or altering shots as help defender, grabbing contested rebounds in traffic and getting to loose balls. When the team needs a big stop it is often Tatum in on the big stop or turnover. He may not be locking anybody down, but he impacts that side of the floor in a similar way that Larry Bird did....just not as furiously yet. As far as getting a break leading the second unit....he is asked to carry that unit on his back offensively and more often than not is leading it defensively too.

I agree offensively, defensively its not that hard to carry a second unit. You are facing vastly inferior offensive players at that point. Although even on 2nd units he rarely covers the best on ball guy. Still gets outmuscled or beat off the drive a lot on ball. Look, I'm not saying he isnt good defensively just that I don't think he is as good/impactful as Brown or Smart have been on that end which was the thesis of the original statement.

And yet he has a better defensive rating this year than either Brown or Smart have ever had and has an on off differential of +12 which is third best in NBA behind GA. (+15) and KL (+13). There is no rule in NBA that our second unit must only play against other teams second units and in fact that unit is often on the court against other teams starters too.

My eye test is very different from yours. When our team is losing ground it is usually because Tatum is on the bench and when he plays we do much better. And the numbers back up what my eyes tell me.

[zoyathedestroya]

For all our whining about our weak/young bench, they have now moved up to 5th in net rating:



But unlike the other teams in the top 5, Cs bench are holding their own by virtue of their stingy defense (yes, Cs with a top 4 bench defense with Kanter playing heavy minutes still has me scratching my head).

It would be interesting to see how our bench scoring would look once Hayward/Smart are healthy and as Langford/Grant keep progressing. If possible, would still love a knockdown three-point specialist (via trade/buyout) that defenders would need to pay extra attention to.

[Gomes3PC]

We have an incredibly talented roster and a really flexible one. Really only hole is defending guys like Embiid, which unfortunately is a critical gap. Hoping that Timelord comes back soon and can start to take more of that role on in the second half of the year.

[Fencer reregistered]

Our team is 3rd best in NBA and it feels like they should be playing so much better. Pacer, Sixers and Dallas games showed a disturbing trend of letting an outlet type player - Holiday, Scott, Curry - really do damage and let a game that was under control slip away or almost slip away in Dallas. I gotta think a healthy Smart changes that dynamic.

I also think a healthy Hayward on West Coast trip might have changed outcome in 1 of the games - Sac, Den, LAC.

With 2-3 less losses the Celtics are right there with Lakers and Bucks. With very big roles entrusted to young players, the Celtics are a team that barring injury should get stronger as year progresses.

I still can’t believe how fun this year is turning out!

Toronto has had health issues too. Indiana obviously has. And while the Clips brought any Kawhi or PG health issues on themselves -- still, they're there.

[Fencer reregistered]

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GOAT answer!! They said holiday, not Xmas! Hah got em!! Nice job Rob!! BOL

When you're the Timelord, any day can be Halloween.

Judging by Carsen Edwards' haircut, thinking holiday meant "Halloween" may not have been crazy at the time of filming.

[zoyathedestroya]

I'm inclined to believe TackoMania brought this on...

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Once Tacko Fall signs a standard contract with the Cs next season, we'll have all 82 RS games nationally-televised.

[Slax]

Our team is 3rd best in NBA and it feels like they should be playing so much better. Pacer, Sixers and Dallas games showed a disturbing trend of letting an outlet type player - Holiday, Scott, Curry - really do damage and let a game that was under control slip away or almost slip away in Dallas. I gotta think a healthy Smart changes that dynamic.

I also think a healthy Hayward on West Coast trip might have changed outcome in 1 of the games - Sac, Den, LAC.

With 2-3 less losses the Celtics are right there with Lakers and Bucks. With very big roles entrusted to young players, the Celtics are a team that barring injury should get stronger as year progresses.

I still can’t believe how fun this year is turning out!

Toronto has had health issues too. Indiana obviously has. And while the Clips brought any Kawhi or PG health issues on themselves -- still, they're there.

The Pacers are massively underrated. They're an incredibly well balanced, young team, missing their best player and still in the mix in the standings.

That said, I do think our team deserves a lot of praise for withstanding multiple injuries to important players and just powering through it.

[Shak_Celts]

GOAT answer!! They said holiday, not Xmas! Hah got em!! Nice job Rob!! BOL

When you're the Timelord, any day can be Halloween.

Judging by Carsen Edwards' haircut, thinking holiday meant "Halloween" may not have been crazy at the time of filming.

I love dreads, wish he kept them. I just hit my first year of growth.

[Slax]

We have to go after Jeff Green. I mean he was valuable enough to net a Memphis first rounder, so he must be an absolutely incredible player, right??

[Fencer reregistered]

We have to go after Jeff Green. I mean he was valuable enough to net a Memphis first rounder, so he must be an absolutely incredible player, right??

I wouldn't put it exactly that way. But Danny does seem to get a large return every time he trades away Jeff Green or the rights to him.