Ray joins the Heat/Ray Allen appreciation thread

[tmac22]

I do agree that his defense is poor and that he is primarily a 3 point assassin but that doesn't mean he is not effective.

[Valid]

So we're using one lone example to characterize Ray Allen's game? Okay. The fact that I was so stunned when I saw Ray throw down that dunk should speak volumes on what he has turned into.

I think we're done here.

[Valid]

I do agree that his defense is poor and that he is primarily a 3 point assassin but that doesn't mean he is not effective.

Who said he isn't effective at what he does?

All I'm saying is that Terry is the better player at THIS STAGE of their careers.

[tmac22]

Agree to disagree I guess. Most all teams would rather have Ray Allen than Jason Terry right now, in fact I think all.

[Valid]

Agree to disagree I guess. Most all teams would rather have Ray Allen than Jason Terry right now, in fact I think all.

I highly, highly doubt that, but yes; agree to disagree.

Either way, what other teams would rather have doesn't really matter. Terry just fits this team's system better than Ray does at this point of their careers.

[702Celtics]

Agree to disagree I guess. Most all teams would rather have Ray Allen than Jason Terry right now, in fact I think all.

Terry is a better ball handler, quicker, can create his own shot better, and is two years younger than Allen. Oh, and Terry isn't coming off another ankle surgery too.

I'd take Terry ten times out of ten over Ray Allen at this point in their careers.

[AVolumeScorer]

Ray Allen as close as two years ago would've been a debate over to have him or Terry
Right now?Don't see it

[DelMonte West]

I'm a bit surprised at how mad I am at this.

Imagine if KG has signed elsewhere.

I see where you're going with this, but the two really aren't comparable. KG will forever be remembered for changing the culture of this team with enough intensity to power a nuclear reactor; he was the face of our turnaround and will forever be respected and remembered for that. He may have pissed off other players/fans with his intensity but that was just the side-effect of his playing mentality. Ray was always perceived as the mature, wise professional who did everything below the radar, had his lovely mother in the stands for every home game, and was respected by the fans of other teams who hated everyone else on our club.

If Ray, who will turn 38 soon and has been in the NBA longer than nearly everyone else, is petty enough to sign with Miami out of spite for being replaced in the starting lineup (fair and square) by a more dynamic player, or because he was perceived as a valuable trading piece, it essentially proves right there that he was nowhere near as "mature" as we thought he was. As mentioned earlier, ESPN/ABC will (predictably) transform him from a past-his-prime rickety old vet to a game-changing superhuman role player. I'm not crying over this loss; the fact that it took as long as it did was reason enough to see it coming.

I hope he takes Donny "fellow UConn alum" Marshall with him.

[tmac22]

Agree to disagree I guess. Most all teams would rather have Ray Allen than Jason Terry right now, in fact I think all.

Terry is a better ball handler, quicker, can create his own shot better, and is two years younger than Allen. Oh, and Terry isn't coming off another ankle surgery too.

I'd take Terry ten times out of ten over Ray Allen at this point in their careers.

Seems like a biased answer but okay. Pretty sure Ray Allen will get plenty of open looks when the defense crashes on Lebron. And he doesn't need to create his own shot because he just comes off 2 screens and has open three's with that quick release. You guys are making him sound like a scrub.

[chrisab123]

Why do Heat fans troll this topic?I'm a Knick fan so I shouldn't be here either but reading this thread has made me come up with a lot of different thoughts.

1. Ray wanting to "stick it" to the Celtics is pathetic considering Rondo got shopped way more than him, and even Garnett was shopped. It's not like he was the only Celtic ever on the block.
2. The Rondo/Ray rift I can't comment on because we don't know much about it and the only person to comment on this so far is Doc
3. Again, Ray getting hurt that the Celtics courted Garnett first is pathetic. Garnett is worth 10x more than him at this point, was the most important player throughout the post season[or Rondo], and if you asked any smart Miami fan if they'd take Allen or Garnett, they'd take Garnett
4. Why are Miami fans acting like they got 2007 Ray Allen?I mean, this ups their chances to win the East by a whole lot, but he won't even start and it's debatable at this point if him or Battier are worth more to Miami
5. To all Boston fans, does it hurt more that Allen left you guys and you'll miss his production?Or does it hurt more that he went to Miami, and you'd take Jet over him anyway?

Number 3 is the one I have the hardest time grasping, Pierce is the captain BUT if you ask real fans who is the leader on the court and who is the leader in the locker room, at worst it would be split between Pierce and KG. Its Pierce's team because hes the longest tenured Celtic but in reality they all answer to KG. So when Ray gets pissy that the Celtics wanted to get KG back in the fold first then good riddance. KG meant more to this team than pretty much anyone there and yeah he was shopped around too. Danny shopped around everyone on the roster because he wanted to make this team better, and in reality maybe he should have made sure that Memphis trade went through and maybe that would have saved everyone trouble and Ray would have signed with the Heat anyways and no one would have looked like the bad guy. But in the end, Ray gave us the best chance to win last season but I think this leaves us in a good situation anyways, maybe Bradley comes back in the 2nd half and can be a solid rotation player, hell JET has the ability to be our starting 2 anyways.

I think we'll be fine though

[Valid]

Agree to disagree I guess. Most all teams would rather have Ray Allen than Jason Terry right now, in fact I think all.

Terry is a better ball handler, quicker, can create his own shot better, and is two years younger than Allen. Oh, and Terry isn't coming off another ankle surgery too.

I'd take Terry ten times out of ten over Ray Allen at this point in their careers.

Seems like a biased answer but okay. Pretty sure Ray Allen will get plenty of open looks when the defense crashes on Lebron. And he doesn't need to create his own shot because he just comes off 2 screens and has open three's with that quick release. You guys are making him sound like a scrub.

I'm not sure how you see these as "biased" answers. Have you even watched Ray Allen the past two years? Did you see how inept he was toward the end of the season and in the playoffs because of his ankles?

He has trouble even working off of screens anymore because he has lost so much quickness.

[702Celtics]

Agree to disagree I guess. Most all teams would rather have Ray Allen than Jason Terry right now, in fact I think all.

Terry is a better ball handler, quicker, can create his own shot better, and is two years younger than Allen. Oh, and Terry isn't coming off another ankle surgery too.

I'd take Terry ten times out of ten over Ray Allen at this point in their careers.

Seems like a biased answer but okay. Pretty sure Ray Allen will get plenty of open looks when the defense crashes on Lebron. And he doesn't need to create his own shot because he just comes off 2 screens and has open three's with that quick release. You guys are making him sound like a scrub.

It's not being biased. It's observing what kind of player Allen is becoming. He's 37 years old and doesn't move well at all. How do you expect him to get wide open looks when he runs like he's got a piano on his back?

Allen also took like 10 seconds to come off those two screens and get a semi-wide open look. I doubt Miami is going to run offensive sets like that for him. If they do, they're stupid. You don't run an offensive play like that when you have James and Wade being able to throw one down on a drive.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Ray Allen is a borderline scrub at this point. He has one, maybe two decent years left in his career.

[DelMonte West]

That's why I said ALMOST like, not quite the same thing. Ray wasn't here as long as them obviously but it's along those lines because they're the "Big 3"

But Parrish left the Celtics and joined Michael Jordan and the Bulls in 1995-96 and won a championship......

Terrible comparison.

No offense, but you clearly don't understand this dynamic. Bird and McHale had BOTH RETIRED by then; heck, McHale retired at the end of the '92-93 season while Bird retired the year before. By that time the Celtics were horrible and going nowhere. In this case, both "Bird" and "McHale" would still be active and the team would still be a contender, yet "Parish (one R, not two)" would STILL join the Lakers (a more appropriate comparion than the Bulls, as those two teams were never at/near the top at the same time).

[Valid]

702Celtics hit it right on the head. He is a borderline scrub.

I mean, he really is a lesser version of Kyle Korver at this point.

[AVolumeScorer]

Why do Heat fans troll this topic?I'm a Knick fan so I shouldn't be here either but reading this thread has made me come up with a lot of different thoughts.

1. Ray wanting to "stick it" to the Celtics is pathetic considering Rondo got shopped way more than him, and even Garnett was shopped. It's not like he was the only Celtic ever on the block.
2. The Rondo/Ray rift I can't comment on because we don't know much about it and the only person to comment on this so far is Doc
3. Again, Ray getting hurt that the Celtics courted Garnett first is pathetic. Garnett is worth 10x more than him at this point, was the most important player throughout the post season[or Rondo], and if you asked any smart Miami fan if they'd take Allen or Garnett, they'd take Garnett
4. Why are Miami fans acting like they got 2007 Ray Allen?I mean, this ups their chances to win the East by a whole lot, but he won't even start and it's debatable at this point if him or Battier are worth more to Miami
5. To all Boston fans, does it hurt more that Allen left you guys and you'll miss his production?Or does it hurt more that he went to Miami, and you'd take Jet over him anyway?

Number 3 is the one I have the hardest time grasping, Pierce is the captain BUT if you ask real fans who is the leader on the court and who is the leader in the locker room, at worst it would be split between Pierce and KG. Its Pierce's team because hes the longest tenured Celtic but in reality they all answer to KG. So when Ray gets pissy that the Celtics wanted to get KG back in the fold first then good riddance. KG meant more to this team than pretty much anyone there and yeah he was shopped around too. Danny shopped around everyone on the roster because he wanted to make this team better, and in reality maybe he should have made sure that Memphis trade went through and maybe that would have saved everyone trouble and Ray would have signed with the Heat anyways and no one would have looked like the bad guy. But in the end, Ray gave us the best chance to win last season but I think this leaves us in a good situation anyways, maybe Bradley comes back in the 2nd half and can be a solid rotation player, hell JET has the ability to be our starting 2 anyways.

I think we'll be fine though

Agree with nearly everything you said, but Jet imo is better in a Manu type role[comes off the bench, plays all the crunch time minutes] than starting. I don't see Bradley being able to carry the scoring load in a second unit like he can.

[AVolumeScorer]

702Celtics hit it right on the head. He is a borderline scrub.

I mean, he really is a lesser version of Kyle Korver at this point.

Now, I wouldn't go that far

[tmac22]

[/quote]
I'm not sure how you see these as "biased" answers. Have you even watched Ray Allen the past two years? Did you see how inept he was toward the end of the season and in the playoffs because of his ankles?

He has trouble even working off of screens anymore because he has lost so much quickness.[/quote]

The last one seemed biased because the guys name was "702Celtics". And yes his ankles are much weaker with his age but coming off the bench and just having surgery should be enough to make him an effective shooter for 25-30 mins.

[chrisab123]

Agree to disagree I guess. Most all teams would rather have Ray Allen than Jason Terry right now, in fact I think all.

Terry is a better ball handler, quicker, can create his own shot better, and is two years younger than Allen. Oh, and Terry isn't coming off another ankle surgery too.

I'd take Terry ten times out of ten over Ray Allen at this point in their careers.

Seems like a biased answer but okay. Pretty sure Ray Allen will get plenty of open looks when the defense crashes on Lebron. And he doesn't need to create his own shot because he just comes off 2 screens and has open three's with that quick release. You guys are making him sound like a scrub.

Ray isn't a scrub, but he isn't Ray Allen circa 2008 either. The answer probably lies somewhere in between. His numbers will probably lie somewhere inbetween what he did for us in the 1st half of the year (he was our best player) and the 2nd half (he was a liability)...at the same time as noted on here the Miami Heat fans are claiming they got the Ray Allen from the "He Got Game" era, hes a past his prime star that might not finish out his contract anyways.

Whenever the Boston media reports something you always have to look at it with a critical eye, Ray leaves and all of a sudden hes a diva. I wouldn't doubt there was heat between Ray and Rondo that KG and Doc had to buffer out, however Doc's words about issues yesterday, I think there is probably something to that jealousy story that was kept under wraps in the locker room.

[702Celtics]

I'm not sure how you see these as "biased" answers. Have you even watched Ray Allen the past two years? Did you see how inept he was toward the end of the season and in the playoffs because of his ankles?

He has trouble even working off of screens anymore because he has lost so much quickness.

The last one seemed biased because the guys name was "702Celtics". And yes his ankles are much weaker with his age but coming off the bench and just having surgery should be enough to make him an effective shooter for 25-30 mins.

Sounds like you didn't read my post or haven't seen Ray Allen play in over 4 years. Maybe both.

[Valid]

tmac:

Um, you do realize that this is a CELTICS forum, right? So I don't see why a poster with that name "702Celtics" should surprise you.

Anyway, I don't see any need in arguing with you further. It's obvious that you haven't watched Ray Allen at all recently.

I bet you still think McGrady can drop 25 a night, too.