"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[ddb]

Few draft notes. I'm in on Maker. Here's why.....I get that he's raw. But 7 footers that can move like that, shoot like that, dribble like that and block shots like that DO NOT grow on trees. Plus, he's a worker. He tried being a face up player which hurt his stock, but with good coaching and a good organization, this kid has a chance to be really, really good.

I'd much rather gamble on a Maker then draft a Brice Johnson. Just my opinion.

Also, Buddy Hield is going to be a star. He has the X Factor. If Boston has #3 or 4, doesn't trade the pick and Buddy is on the board....gonna be hard to pass him up. Ainge shouldn't pass him up. Draft a star

[ddb]

I'd be pretty thrilled with a Hield, Maker, Valentine draft. Move up if need be for Maker and/or Valentine if we don't trade for established star or land in Top 2

[rony zeira]

Of course the brags comparison is not perfect, no comparison is, I just think the the flaws that prevented brags from being a really good player are very similar to the ones I've seen from Bender this season, that's why I think he is a big risk at the 3rd pick. I also don't think Bender will be able to play much SF in the NBA, he will play at that position maybe in his first seasons, like KG did in his first seasons when he was too skinny to fight in the paint for too long, but Bender's long term position will be at the PF where he will be able to take advantage of his quickness and outside shooting, you hardly ever see anyone his height play SF in their prime years, with most teams going for quicker lineups these days, having him as a SF is a big disadvantage as he's not as quick as a 6-7 or a 6-8 SF and not physical enough to take advantage of shorter defenders.

As for measurements, that's not what I would focus on with Bender, he clearly has great size for the PF position (Does it really matter if he is 7-0 or 7-1?), you can clearly see from any highlight clip that his shooting mechanics are good and that he is at the very least pretty quick and an adequate athlete even at an NBA level for a guy his size, like I said, this guys has all the tools you could want, the question mark for me is his character, will we work hard enough to improve himself? Will he be willing to take contact in the paint and fight for position and rebound? will he be aggressive when he's got the ball? Will he keep his focus on defense? You don't see those things on measurements, you might be able to see some of them on workouts if he agrees to workout with other prospects and won't go for Yi's chairman routine.

[Bluewhale]

I know why people compare Bargiani and Bender, due to possible draft order. (And some put KP in Knicks in the conversation, too.)

But I wonder why people not comparing Gannis and Bender? They are both quick and more SF/PF than the PF/C as Barg and KP.

[LacosteM]

I know why people compare Bargiani and Bender, due to possible draft order. (And some put KP in Knicks in the conversation, too.)

But I wonder why people not comparing Gannis and Bender? They are both quick and more SF/PF than the PF/C as Barg and KP.

I like AK47 comp for Bender.

[Bluewhale]

I'd be pretty thrilled with a Hield, Maker, Valentine draft. Move up if need be for Maker and/or Valentine if we don't trade for established star or land in Top 2

The problem is, I think Maker will be drafted at top 10, and it is very hard to trade up from #16 to top 10 (Ainge tried last year and fail)

[rony zeira]

Giannis has freakish athleticism and length, Bender doesn't, OTOH, Bender even now is likely a better outside shooter (Well, at least a better set shooter) than Giannis. As for AK47, he was a great defensive player with a limited offensive arsenal who made a big portion of his points off of hassle and hard work, Bender can be much more than that on the offensive side, but I really doubt he will ever be close the defensive Juggernaut Kirilenko was.

As for the KP comparison, from what I've seen from KP, I do like that one (Haven't seen too much of him outside of highlight I must say), KP could be a sort of prototype to what Bender might become if he develops the right attitude and becomes more aggressive.

[cellar-door]

Giannis has freakish athleticism and length, Bender doesn't, OTOH, Bender even now is likely a better outside shooter (Well, at least a better set shooter) than Giannis. As for AK47, he was a great defensive player with a limited offensive arsenal who made a big portion of his points off of hassle and hard work, Bender can be much more than that on the offensive side, but I really doubt he will ever be close the defensive Juggernaut Kirilenko was.

As for the KP comparison, from what I've seen from KP, I do like that one (Haven't seen too much of him outside of highlight I must say), KP could be a sort of prototype to what Bender might become if he develops the right attitude and becomes more aggressive.

I agree with all of this.

Bender to me is a guy who has the potential (ceiling) to be an outstanding offensive player with above average D. He's never going to be an elite defender, but I don't think there's much chance he's Kevin Love on defense either.

[brackdan70]

Last night caused me to shift my focus towards Davis. I'm paying close attention to him at the combine. Others include Diallo, B. Johnson, Gabusele, Jeanne, and Zubac.

Davis is very intriguing. he seem like a stretch at top 5 though and may not be around for 16. trade back in the draft?

Please no. If Danny wants Davis, he has to trade UP to get him.

agreed, thats a better option. depends on the package though. If Cs are 3-6 I have no problem trading back for a good package. Just really depends.

[Envelope]

Bargnani is an interesting comp for Bender in terms of where he is at this point vs. where Bargs was at 20.

I think it would be a mistake to take that as a projection going forward though because from what I have seen of Bender he has quite a bit more lateral agility than Bargnani, but will have less bulk. Bargnani was a guy who projected as a PF/C, where Bender is more of a SF/PF type. Skills wise I'd agree they are similar, but body and athleticism wise they are different.

I think Bender has a higher ceiling than Bargs ever did, and I personally think the #3 pick is probably about right for him, as long as a team understands he's at least 1 probably 2 years away from being a rotation guy and his upside is probably more like 2.5-3.5 years away total.

It will also be interesting to see new measurables on Bender, we have numbers from when he was 16 then 17 (he grew) it'll be interesting to see if he grew again and how much weight he put on.

Overall I think he's a decent pick at 3 if you know he's a project, he's to me the best of the project big men. If a team wants to go with a guard or wing who is closer to ready I think that's fine as well.

Bender isn't a SF, nor a SF/PF hybrid, no matter how many times you guys say it. And if he was really skilled, he'd get on the court in the shty Israel league. I seriously doubt Bargs was toiling on the bench in shty Israel league at 18 years old.

And think about it, do you want to lose a playoff series next year, or the year after that, because our prize draft pick is years away? Years away from what, anyway? Does Bender even look like a good bet to be a championship centerpiece? No, no he doesn't.

James Young was drafted even though it was known that he was a two/three year project. Meanwhile, guys who could actually be helping us against Atlanta in the playoffs were passed over.

If the point is to win championships, why forfeit 2-3 seasons waiting on a draft pick, unless the guy is a near sure thing for being not just a max player, but a guy who plays better than the free agents you could sign for max money.

An 18 year old future NBA superstar would be playing significant minutes in shty Israel league, and their talent and impact would be obvious when they did get on the court.

Bender's perceived upside is all hypothetical and theoretical, and based on a whole lot of things that have no basis in observable reality.

You guys can't stand soft players, and yet you're drooling over this guy, and assuming he'll be a tough NBA player and suddenly develop currently invisible deadly scoring moves in the NBA.

And you're obsessing about the lottery order just so you can get the 3rd pick and piss it away on a three year project who may or may not ultimately be better than Jerebko.

[LacosteM]

Bargnani is an interesting comp for Bender in terms of where he is at this point vs. where Bargs was at 20.

I think it would be a mistake to take that as a projection going forward though because from what I have seen of Bender he has quite a bit more lateral agility than Bargnani, but will have less bulk. Bargnani was a guy who projected as a PF/C, where Bender is more of a SF/PF type. Skills wise I'd agree they are similar, but body and athleticism wise they are different.

I think Bender has a higher ceiling than Bargs ever did, and I personally think the #3 pick is probably about right for him, as long as a team understands he's at least 1 probably 2 years away from being a rotation guy and his upside is probably more like 2.5-3.5 years away total.

It will also be interesting to see new measurables on Bender, we have numbers from when he was 16 then 17 (he grew) it'll be interesting to see if he grew again and how much weight he put on.

Overall I think he's a decent pick at 3 if you know he's a project, he's to me the best of the project big men. If a team wants to go with a guard or wing who is closer to ready I think that's fine as well.

Bender isn't a SF, nor a SF/PF hybrid, no matter how many times you guys say it. And if he was really skilled, he'd get on the court in the shty Israel league. I seriously doubt Bargs was toiling on the bench in shty Israel league at 18 years old.

And think about it, do you want to lose a playoff series next year, or the year after that, because our prize draft pick is years away? Years away from what, anyway? Does Bender even look like a good bet to be a championship centerpiece? No, no he doesn't.

James Young was drafted even though it was known that he was a two/three year project. Meanwhile, guys who could actually be helping us against Atlanta in the playoffs were passed over.

If the point is to win championships, why forfeit 2-3 seasons waiting on a draft pick, unless the guy is a near sure thing for being not just a max player, but a guy who plays better than the free agents you could sign for max money.

An 18 year old future NBA superstar would be playing significant minutes in shty Israel league, and their talent and impact would be obvious when they did get on the court.

Bender's perceived upside is all hypothetical and theoretical, and based on a whole lot of things that have no basis in observable reality.

You guys can't stand soft players, and yet you're drooling over this guy, and assuming he'll be a tough NBA player and suddenly develop currently invisible deadly scoring moves in the NBA.

And you're obsessing about the lottery order just so you can get the 3rd pick and piss it away on a three year project who may or may not ultimately be better than Jerebko.

Says the guy who wants to draft Thon Maker with the 3rd pick...

[lon3lytoaster]

Don't know if I buy Heild being maxed out. He's gotten better every year. I tend to lean towards Murray just slightly but goddamn I would love a couple prolific space makers on this team. None of the top ten bigs excite me except Simmons.

[LacosteM]

Bargnani is an interesting comp for Bender in terms of where he is at this point vs. where Bargs was at 20.

I think it would be a mistake to take that as a projection going forward though because from what I have seen of Bender he has quite a bit more lateral agility than Bargnani, but will have less bulk. Bargnani was a guy who projected as a PF/C, where Bender is more of a SF/PF type. Skills wise I'd agree they are similar, but body and athleticism wise they are different.

I think Bender has a higher ceiling than Bargs ever did, and I personally think the #3 pick is probably about right for him, as long as a team understands he's at least 1 probably 2 years away from being a rotation guy and his upside is probably more like 2.5-3.5 years away total.

It will also be interesting to see new measurables on Bender, we have numbers from when he was 16 then 17 (he grew) it'll be interesting to see if he grew again and how much weight he put on.

Overall I think he's a decent pick at 3 if you know he's a project, he's to me the best of the project big men. If a team wants to go with a guard or wing who is closer to ready I think that's fine as well.

Bender isn't a SF, nor a SF/PF hybrid, no matter how many times you guys say it. And if he was really skilled, he'd get on the court in the shty Israel league. I seriously doubt Bargs was toiling on the bench in shty Israel league at 18 years old.

And think about it, do you want to lose a playoff series next year, or the year after that, because our prize draft pick is years away? Years away from what, anyway? Does Bender even look like a good bet to be a championship centerpiece? No, no he doesn't.

James Young was drafted even though it was known that he was a two/three year project. Meanwhile, guys who could actually be helping us against Atlanta in the playoffs were passed over.

If the point is to win championships, why forfeit 2-3 seasons waiting on a draft pick, unless the guy is a near sure thing for being not just a max player, but a guy who plays better than the free agents you could sign for max money.

An 18 year old future NBA superstar would be playing significant minutes in shty Israel league, and their talent and impact would be obvious when they did get on the court.

Bender's perceived upside is all hypothetical and theoretical, and based on a whole lot of things that have no basis in observable reality.

You guys can't stand soft players, and yet you're drooling over this guy, and assuming he'll be a tough NBA player and suddenly develop currently invisible deadly scoring moves in the NBA.

And you're obsessing about the lottery order just so you can get the 3rd pick and piss it away on a three year project who may or may not ultimately be better than Jerebko.

FYI Bargnani started to get significant minutes just as a 20 year old in an Italian league. Also needless to say that Israelian league is streets ahead of college hoops. The amount of ignorance you just spilled in one post is just sad.

[Envelope]

Isreali league way ahead of college hoops? How many NBA players play in the Israeli league?

Now compare Israeli league to Nike Hoops Summit, which is packed with future NBA players, and where Maker already shined as a defensive and rebounding stud as an 18 year old with 4 years of basketball experience. No comparison.

At least admit that drafting Bender would be a huge roll of the dice, and that nobody has enough information to safely predict his NBA success.

If you want to draft the next Jerebko, why not draft one who is a safer pick?

Or is there only one Jerebko in this draft and we must get him at #3, lol.

[FlatearthZorro]

16 and 31 for for say 12, draft Davis, consolidate draft picks...

Man, I really want Ingram over Simmons. Ingram could be generational talent, so can Simmons, but Ingram has a real 2 way superstar player type of talent.

[Envelope]

Bargnani is an interesting comp for Bender in terms of where he is at this point vs. where Bargs was at 20.

I think it would be a mistake to take that as a projection going forward though because from what I have seen of Bender he has quite a bit more lateral agility than Bargnani, but will have less bulk. Bargnani was a guy who projected as a PF/C, where Bender is more of a SF/PF type. Skills wise I'd agree they are similar, but body and athleticism wise they are different.

I think Bender has a higher ceiling than Bargs ever did, and I personally think the #3 pick is probably about right for him, as long as a team understands he's at least 1 probably 2 years away from being a rotation guy and his upside is probably more like 2.5-3.5 years away total.

It will also be interesting to see new measurables on Bender, we have numbers from when he was 16 then 17 (he grew) it'll be interesting to see if he grew again and how much weight he put on.

Overall I think he's a decent pick at 3 if you know he's a project, he's to me the best of the project big men. If a team wants to go with a guard or wing who is closer to ready I think that's fine as well.

Bender isn't a SF, nor a SF/PF hybrid, no matter how many times you guys say it. And if he was really skilled, he'd get on the court in the shty Israel league. I seriously doubt Bargs was toiling on the bench in shty Israel league at 18 years old.

And think about it, do you want to lose a playoff series next year, or the year after that, because our prize draft pick is years away? Years away from what, anyway? Does Bender even look like a good bet to be a championship centerpiece? No, no he doesn't.

James Young was drafted even though it was known that he was a two/three year project. Meanwhile, guys who could actually be helping us against Atlanta in the playoffs were passed over.

If the point is to win championships, why forfeit 2-3 seasons waiting on a draft pick, unless the guy is a near sure thing for being not just a max player, but a guy who plays better than the free agents you could sign for max money.

An 18 year old future NBA superstar would be playing significant minutes in shty Israel league, and their talent and impact would be obvious when they did get on the court.

Bender's perceived upside is all hypothetical and theoretical, and based on a whole lot of things that have no basis in observable reality.

You guys can't stand soft players, and yet you're drooling over this guy, and assuming he'll be a tough NBA player and suddenly develop currently invisible deadly scoring moves in the NBA.

And you're obsessing about the lottery order just so you can get the 3rd pick and piss it away on a three year project who may or may not ultimately be better than Jerebko.

FYI Bargnani started to get significant minutes just as a 20 year old in an Italian league. Also needless to say that Israelian league is streets ahead of college hoops. The amount of ignorance you just spilled in one post is just sad.

It would probably take Bender until age 20 to get minutes in the Italian or Spanish league. One more similarity between the two.

[Envelope]

16 and 31 for for say 12, draft Davis, consolidate draft picks...

Man, I really want Ingram over Simmons. Ingram could be generational talent, so can Simmons, but Ingram has a real 2 way superstar player type of talent.

Yeah, Ingram is the best prospect in this draft, and would fit our team perfectly, even off the bench as a rookie he could compete for 6th man of the year and ROY as well.

His 3 point shooting numbers are virtually identical to Durant's in college. 3s attempted, 3s made, and 3 pt % are all virtually identical.

[Wes-J]

Few draft notes. I'm in on Maker. Here's why.....I get that he's raw. But 7 footers that can move like that, shoot like that, dribble like that and block shots like that DO NOT grow on trees. Plus, he's a worker. He tried being a face up player which hurt his stock, but with good coaching and a good organization, this kid has a chance to be really, really good.

I'd much rather gamble on a Maker then draft a Brice Johnson. Just my opinion.

Also, Buddy Hield is going to be a star. He has the X Factor. If Boston has #3 or 4, doesn't trade the pick and Buddy is on the board....gonna be hard to pass him up. Ainge shouldn't pass him up. Draft a star

Gamble on Maker when? You do realize Johnson damn nearly put up 20/10 for a deep talented team that made the finals. Not to mention he'll ace any athletic testing. I love Maker in the 2nd rd, 35 at the highest. I'm totally good with Buddy assuming the frontline is seriously addressed.

[radcot]

I'd be pretty thrilled with a Hield, Maker, Valentine draft. Move up if need be for Maker and/or Valentine if we don't trade for established star or land in Top 2

I don't know anything about Maker aside from what's been written in this thread, but I'd rather take a large gamble with the 16th or 23rd picks than with the 3rd (or 4th or 5th). If we're keeping the 3rd (big "if"), I think we need it to yield a player who can help us right away. We need shooting and we need at least one starter quality big. We won't get the latter with the 3rd pick, but I agree that Hield could very well help our woeful shooting from Day 1.

[Dave_From_NB]

For what it is worth, Zhou has declared (7'2, 210 (!) pounds). Would seem to be a stretch (ha ha) to make it. Maybe if Sully is signed, he could become this guys nutritional consultant?