If It Is To Be Said. So It Be. So It Is. The First Deadline Trade Thread.

[zoyathedestroya]

****, I blocked that Bam block out of my consciousness. Thanks for bringing it back.

[Feed Your Head]

From the middle of last season.

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He had a TS of 60.1% in crunch time last season, and 61.6% two years ago. That’s elite efficiency in the hardest moments of a game.

I’m all for blaming him for almost all of our crunch time issues this year, but dude had been clutch as hell the previous two seasons.

[Ben-N1ce]

From the middle of last season.

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He had a TS of 60.1% in crunch time last season, and 61.6% two years ago. That’s elite efficiency in the hardest moments of a game.

I’m all for blaming him for almost all of our crunch time issues this year, but dude had been clutch as hell the previous two seasons.

The trick is not to need that many go ahead baskets with 5 seconds left...

[sully00]

Tatum and Brown dominating the ball inhibits the play of the young guys. Someone tell Ime.

Tatum and Brown run this team, not Ime. Ime said publicly at the beginning of the year that the "your turn my turn" offense had to go and he chided Brad that the team was 28th in assists. Remember? Don't you think they coaches say the same thing every day?

But nothing has changed, although to Tatum and Brown's credit (with a little help from Schroder) they have improved to 26th in assists.

I don't know how you can watch this team and not realize that the limitations of the offense are based on the limitations of the players in it. Neither Tatum or Brown are pg's and while high usage players they are relatively low turn over players. The rest of this club is a low usage high turnover nightmare. The team itself ranks about 18th in the league in turn over % but if you took away Tatum and Brown they would be dead last. Outside of Tatum, Brown, and Schroder the rest of this team is just as likely to turn it over as they are to squeeze off a shot. Most of them were on this team last year and they weren't great but they weren't this bad. They do not know whether to **** or go blind on the offensive end.

Blame Tatum, Brown the Coach, Brad, Danny it doesn't matter in the end the guys on the floor have to stop sucking. If it was Tatum and Brown's fault why aren't the Celtics better when they are off the floor instead they twice as bad.

[zoyathedestroya]

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BREAKING: The Wizards are trading for Jayson Tatum.

[Feed Your Head]

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BREAKING: The Wizards are trading for Jayson Tatum.

I don’t share info on here anymore really, but I can say for a fact that Beal is privately putting a ton of pressure on the front office to make a big, win now move. Publicly too, obviously lol.

If the Wizards don’t make a big trade, I think it’s because they don’t want to give him that insane contract.

[darylbe]

Sorry for blowing up. My perception is that tatum stinks early and only turns it up in the 4th. Quick bball reference

He is 25th in pts scored 1st half. Not terrible. But he's one of the best in points scored for second half (7th). For high volume shooters-say the top 20, he is the second worst (lillard worse). Curry is down there, but curry is shooting more 3's,at 38%.(tatum is at like 32%).

Why is he chucking the ball up more when it's his worst career shooting? (kw+ef <Schroeder and Richardson? ). Idfk.

[bisme37]

Tatum struggles this year, first off he's been really good defensively, and improved his playmaking and getting to the rim. As far as the shooting and clutch performance, in my head I've considered a number of things and think it's probably a combination of several.

First off he came into the season with the goal of getting to the free throw line more. That was the main complaint about him last season and he worked on it last summer and bulked up and practiced ways to finish through contact and get fouled. But then they changed the rules and much of what was a foul a year ago isn't a foul anymore. So I think that got him frustrated, and he's had to adjust. Which he's done a good job at imo.

Then a couple weeks into the season Smart chewed him out for not passing. Which the media then picked up on. Which I think annoyed JT and got him in his head, but he's a good humble kid and gave it a lot of thought and wants to improve with his passing and playmaking. But I think he's been out there second guessing himself instead of just playing his game. In the moment, instead of confidently being Jayson Tatum, he's wondering what the right play is all the sudden.

And some of that overlaps with the new coach, his first new coach since college. Udoka worked with him in the summer (Olympics) and came to the Celtics preaching ball movement (among other things). I don't think Udoka plays to our players' strengths as much as he should and instead it's like he's trying to turn guys into different players midseason. I think he puts a huge burden on JT, overplays him and gasses him out, doesn't use lineups that give him good spacing or passing outlets, has him in his head wondering if he should score or pass in big moments, and then passive-aggressively bitches about it after we lose.

Also, I mean, good players have shooting slumps. Even GOAT shooter Curry was in one just recently.

I'm rambling now I think haha. But I think we forget Tatum is only 23 and it's perfectly reasonable that he's still figuring some stuff out.

[Half-Full]

Tatum and Brown dominating the ball inhibits the play of the young guys. Someone tell Ime.

Tatum and Brown run this team, not Ime. Ime said publicly at the beginning of the year that the "your turn my turn" offense had to go and he chided Brad that the team was 28th in assists. Remember? Don't you think they coaches say the same thing every day?

But nothing has changed, although to Tatum and Brown's credit (with a little help from Schroder) they have improved to 26th in assists.

I don't know how you can watch this team and not realize that the limitations of the offense are based on the limitations of the players in it. Neither Tatum or Brown are pg's and while high usage players they are relatively low turn over players. The rest of this club is a low usage high turnover nightmare. The team itself ranks about 18th in the league in turn over % but if you took away Tatum and Brown they would be dead last. Outside of Tatum, Brown, and Schroder the rest of this team is just as likely to turn it over as they are to squeeze off a shot. Most of them were on this team last year and they weren't great but they weren't this bad. They do not know whether to **** or go blind on the offensive end.

Blame Tatum, Brown the Coach, Brad, Danny it doesn't matter in the end the guys on the floor have to stop sucking. If it was Tatum and Brown's fault why aren't the Celtics better when they are off the floor instead they twice as bad.

I guess I am not seeing the rest of the team as a "high turnover nightmare." The Jays, yes. They turn the ball over a lot. Who in the supporting cast has a high turnover rate?

[Feed Your Head]

Tatum and Brown run this team, not Ime. Ime said publicly at the beginning of the year that the "your turn my turn" offense had to go and he chided Brad that the team was 28th in assists. Remember? Don't you think they coaches say the same thing every day?

But nothing has changed, although to Tatum and Brown's credit (with a little help from Schroder) they have improved to 26th in assists.

I don't know how you can watch this team and not realize that the limitations of the offense are based on the limitations of the players in it. Neither Tatum or Brown are pg's and while high usage players they are relatively low turn over players. The rest of this club is a low usage high turnover nightmare. The team itself ranks about 18th in the league in turn over % but if you took away Tatum and Brown they would be dead last. Outside of Tatum, Brown, and Schroder the rest of this team is just as likely to turn it over as they are to squeeze off a shot. Most of them were on this team last year and they weren't great but they weren't this bad. They do not know whether to **** or go blind on the offensive end.

Blame Tatum, Brown the Coach, Brad, Danny it doesn't matter in the end the guys on the floor have to stop sucking. If it was Tatum and Brown's fault why aren't the Celtics better when they are off the floor instead they twice as bad.

I guess I am not seeing the rest of the team as a "high turnover nightmare." The Jays, yes. They turn the ball over a lot. Who in the supporting cast has a high turnover rate?

They don’t turn the ball over a lot though, for guys with their usage, their turnover rates are actually quite low. It’s just they don’t get a ton of assists, so it looks worse.

Of the top 20 usage guys, only Booker, Derozen, and SGA have a lower turnover rate than Tatum. And Jaylen is in the middle of the pack, nothing egregious.

[zoyathedestroya]

Tatum and Brown run this team, not Ime. Ime said publicly at the beginning of the year that the "your turn my turn" offense had to go and he chided Brad that the team was 28th in assists. Remember? Don't you think they coaches say the same thing every day?

But nothing has changed, although to Tatum and Brown's credit (with a little help from Schroder) they have improved to 26th in assists.

I don't know how you can watch this team and not realize that the limitations of the offense are based on the limitations of the players in it. Neither Tatum or Brown are pg's and while high usage players they are relatively low turn over players. The rest of this club is a low usage high turnover nightmare. The team itself ranks about 18th in the league in turn over % but if you took away Tatum and Brown they would be dead last. Outside of Tatum, Brown, and Schroder the rest of this team is just as likely to turn it over as they are to squeeze off a shot. Most of them were on this team last year and they weren't great but they weren't this bad. They do not know whether to **** or go blind on the offensive end.

Blame Tatum, Brown the Coach, Brad, Danny it doesn't matter in the end the guys on the floor have to stop sucking. If it was Tatum and Brown's fault why aren't the Celtics better when they are off the floor instead they twice as bad.

I guess I am not seeing the rest of the team as a "high turnover nightmare." The Jays, yes. They turn the ball over a lot. Who in the supporting cast has a high turnover rate?

Smart and Timelord have higher for lower usage players who are part of the main rotation. Wish we could break it down into live-ball and dead-ball TOs. It feels like Jays have the former variety more. And their TO rate is higher in the 4th.

[cheezone]

Some people watch Fox News and don't get vaccinated. Other people listen to WEEI and want to trade Smart.

Some people watch CNN and are sheep who want to be ruled by a communist government

Other people just just know when it’s time to give up on a player that just hasn’t worked out the way we expected and want to trade him (smart)

[zoyathedestroya]

I'm again making the mistake of lumping the two Jays together. This is just via eye test so I could be totally off. Tatum's turnovers are usually offensive fouls (when he's caught pushing off) and passes that miss their mark (go out of bounds). Brown's TOs are offensive fouls and when he gets stripped due to overdribbling.

Anyway, their TOs are not a big issue for me. I just want a better offensive flow. Jays then coach are biggest culprits imo in why that hasn't happened yet.

[Curmudgeon]

Spencer Dinwiddie, Kyle Kuzma and Demi Avdija for Jason Tatum and Dennis Schroder.

[Bohemian]

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BREAKING: The Wizards are trading for Jayson Tatum.

I don’t share info on here anymore really, but I can say for a fact that Beal is privately putting a ton of pressure on the front office to make a big, win now move. Publicly too, obviously lol.

If the Wizards don’t make a big trade, I think it’s because they don’t want to give him that insane contract.

So I guess we should keep an eye on the Wizards trade deadline moves (or hopefully lack of) as much as on our own moves.

[Shak_Celts]

I feel like from previous POBO, Celtics tried to force some veteran all star to mesh with 2 young kids and try and compete for a ring. It's been a disaster every year after JT rookie season. We've never built on that.

This team goes as far as the Jay's take us. They have a lot to learn and grow. Neither is clutch. Neither than take the ball and score when needed. Game winning buzzer beater? Good f-ing luck. It's not a knock. They are only 25 and 23. I'm confident it will come. Tatum has a lot of maturing to do.

Rather than forcing yet another veteran older all star in, the direction should be adding young talented players to grow and develop as the Jays grow and develop. This should have been going on for the past 3 years. Yet here we are. Still Jerking it with hopes of Langford becoming something, with a pile of tpe's from huge contracts that didn't mesh, that will be used on some player that probably won't mesh either.

Tatum may have more buzzer beaters and go ahead/game winners in his career than probably most of NBA and I don't care what level player you're talking. I don't know anything about stats, but IIRC he was more clutch than anybody last season. Brown used to be clutch too, IIRC, but not off too many game winners because Tat was taking and making them. I'm not going to look for proof, but I try to pay attention when people do the work for me.

We have struggled this season, but come on now!

This is too narrow of a definition, but Tatum has never had a buzzer beater in his career. Side note: I counted 5 buzzer-beaters by Cs in Stevens era, six against them same span.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/buzzer-beaters.html

I'm sure he's had a few go-ahead/game-tying baskets in the final two minutes of a game. Dunno where to look for that (probably a site behind a paywall).

game winners, okay. sorry.

[canman1971]

Spencer Dinwiddie, Kyle Kuzma and Demi Avdija for Jason Tatum and Dennis Schroder.

OK, this is just acting like a troll and I know you are better than that.

[Curmudgeon]

Spencer Dinwiddie, Kyle Kuzma and Demi Avdija for Jason Tatum and Dennis Schroder.

OK, this is just acting like a troll and I know you are better than that.

I've been fairly consistent in my view, unpopular though it may be on this forum, that the Celtics ought to move on from Tatum and Brown. Does that mean that every time I propose a plausible deal for one or both of them that I'm trolling?

[canman1971]

Spencer Dinwiddie, Kyle Kuzma and Demi Avdija for Jason Tatum and Dennis Schroder.

OK, this is just acting like a troll and I know you are better than that.

I've been fairly consistent in my view, unpopular though it may be on this forum, that the Celtics ought to move on from Tatum and Brown. Does that mean that every time I propose a plausible deal for one or both of them that I'm trolling?

I know you have been consistent. But what you proposed is nowhere near plausible. That's all.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, no deal involving Tatum or Brown is "plausible" since the franchise has declared both of them to be untradeable, wrongly in my view.