Buyout Thread: If Celtics get a player in buyout market, who would be cut?

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

As things currently stand, the Boston Celtics bench ranks 28th in the league in points-per-game averages (28.1), 27th in 3-point percentage (31.5) and 21st in the league in offensive rating (52.5).

How are they doing in terms of defense?

[Gant]

As things currently stand, the Boston Celtics bench ranks 28th in the league in points-per-game averages (28.1), 27th in 3-point percentage (31.5) and 21st in the league in offensive rating (52.5).

That initially seems terrible, but in the only way that matters -the score- Boston has the 6th most effective bench in the league...

In overall plus/minus, the Celtics bench ranks 6th. They are plus 1.7 per game, behind only MIlwaukee, the Lakers, Toronto, the Clippers, and Dallas:

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?StarterBench=Bench&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1


How does the bench outscore the opponent while scoring so poorly themselves? The answer is, it's because they hardly shoot at all, leaving the shots to the more efficient starters. The Celtics' bench is second to last in FGA per game, taking only 22.8 shots:

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?StarterBench=Bench&sort=FGA&dir=-1


The bench is dead last in 3 point attempts, which given their percentage is smart basketball.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?StarterBench=Bench&sort=FG3A&dir=-1


The bottom line is the Celtics bench is one of more effective in the league because they do mostly what they're good at, and don't so much of what they're bad at. (A Brad Stevens hallmark for player after player over the years.)


Could they be upgraded?... Of course. Having another dynamic scorer would help a lot.

Are they ineffective in contributing to wins?... Just the opposite.

[cloverleaf]

Depends on who they get. If Tristan T becomes available Vinnie goes. Othwrwise Javonte seems to have lost his role to Romeo.

[Darth Celtic]

I love IT but he’s washed. He has no explosion he might get you 10 pts but he will allow 20.

Still a better net than Wannamaker getting 2 points and giving up 15. (-10 > -13).

IT net rating of -10, Wanamaker +5 (higher is better).
https://stats.nba.com/player/202954/

Also for the whatevereth time we don't need Wanamaker to score. We have four premier perimeter scorers, two of whom are on the court at any time, and Wanamaker's job is to use his 6'3" 209lb frame to play good D, push it in transition, move the ball, and make open shots.

OR to put it another way, do you want IT taking shots from
a. Tatum
b. Walker
c. Brown
d. Hayward
e. Smart

because after that it's just scraps and we have the 5th highest offensive rating in the league (https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1) while also sporting the 3rd best defensive rating (https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1) so it seems highly unlikely we're going to bring in one of the absolute worst defenders in the league (actually he's now out of the league) and play him any minutes.

OMG this times 1 million.

Wannamaker is better in every stat except high volume scoring, which he basically doesn't do unless he's on the fast break, otherwise he passes.

People are so mad that our bench doesn't score, well, they also don't shoot much. We have 4 guys who score 20 ppg and a 5th who tries too. In the playoffs, the rotation will be much shorter. 8 guys, MAYBE 9 as we play 3 centers. Nobody will care about bench scoring. Brad rotates his 4 scorers around where 1-2 are on the court at all times to take up those shots. The bench is just to get them the shots, play defense, and rebound.

People are mad at wannabrickers bad game against the lakers and the bench lack of scoring compared to the Lakers.

Well, our 35mpg all star starting pg was out taking away our main bench scorer in Smart. Lakers have 2 off injured mega stars and a bunch of dudes. Of course they need guys to score off the bench. We have 4 scorers.

Playoffs

Kemba 35mins, Smart 13Min
Brown 35mins, Smart 13Mmin
Hayward 35m Smart 10Min Semi 3min
Tatum 36mpg, Semi 12mpg
Theis 30 MPG, Kanter 18 MPG

Now, Kanter, Semi, Timelord, Grant can all be interchanged depending on matchup and how they are playing, but the point is in the playoffs our starters should play 171mpg of a 240mpg game. That's 69 mins of bench vs the regular season which is more like 30 mpg more bench time. Smart will take up 36 of that leaving 33mins for 2-3 guys.

Unless you are injured or in foul trouble, bench is not as important in the playoffs and Bench scoring is even less to worry about when you have 4 20 ppg scorers.

[Darth Celtic]

love watching the sixers scrubs they traded for at the deadline. My god i'm glad we didn't give up rosters spots and 2nd round picks for those 2.

[Green89]

Still a better net than Wannamaker getting 2 points and giving up 15. (-10 > -13).

IT net rating of -10, Wanamaker +5 (higher is better).
https://stats.nba.com/player/202954/

Also for the whatevereth time we don't need Wanamaker to score. We have four premier perimeter scorers, two of whom are on the court at any time, and Wanamaker's job is to use his 6'3" 209lb frame to play good D, push it in transition, move the ball, and make open shots.

OR to put it another way, do you want IT taking shots from
a. Tatum
b. Walker
c. Brown
d. Hayward
e. Smart

because after that it's just scraps and we have the 5th highest offensive rating in the league (https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1) while also sporting the 3rd best defensive rating (https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1) so it seems highly unlikely we're going to bring in one of the absolute worst defenders in the league (actually he's now out of the league) and play him any minutes.

OMG this times 1 million.

Wannamaker is better in every stat except high volume scoring, which he basically doesn't do unless he's on the fast break, otherwise he passes.

People are so mad that our bench doesn't score, well, they also don't shoot much. We have 4 guys who score 20 ppg and a 5th who tries too. In the playoffs, the rotation will be much shorter. 8 guys, MAYBE 9 as we play 3 centers. Nobody will care about bench scoring. Brad rotates his 4 scorers around where 1-2 are on the court at all times to take up those shots. The bench is just to get them the shots, play defense, and rebound.

People are mad at wannabrickers bad game against the lakers and the bench lack of scoring compared to the Lakers.

Well, our 35mpg all star starting pg was out taking away our main bench scorer in Smart. Lakers have 2 off injured mega stars and a bunch of dudes. Of course they need guys to score off the bench. We have 4 scorers.

Playoffs

Kemba 35mins, Smart 13Min
Brown 35mins, Smart 13Mmin
Hayward 35m Smart 10Min Semi 3min
Tatum 36mpg, Semi 12mpg
Theis 30 MPG, Kanter 18 MPG

Now, Kanter, Semi, Timelord, Grant can all be interchanged depending on matchup and how they are playing, but the point is in the playoffs our starters should play 171mpg of a 240mpg game. That's 69 mins of bench vs the regular season which is more like 30 mpg more bench time. Smart will take up 36 of that leaving 33mins for 2-3 guys.

Unless you are injured or in foul trouble, bench is not as important in the playoffs and Bench scoring is even less to worry about when you have 4 20 ppg scorers.

IT was on a terrible team and Wannamaker plays on one of the best in the league, so you can't compare net ratings like that. As far as being a bad defender, the point of a bench scorer is not exactly defense. Do you think the Clippers expect Lou Will to play any D?? Yah, right. Not his role. Also, along with IT, Bradley Beal and Trae Young round out the top 3 worst defenders in the league. You going to tell me we wouldn't want either of those two other guys coming off our bench come playoff time, because of their bad D?

And if we play Semi 15mpg in the playoffs, we're ******. Whatever scorer is on the floor with him will be immediately double teamed. Good coaches will look for weak offensive players to leave and be able to trap/double the best scorers on the floor. Semi screams "leave me wide open" to any smart defender and opposing coach.

We have such short term memory here of playoff games we lost because of offensive lulls when bench players come into the game. We can't have offensively weak bench players. You saw how the Lakers crushed us when we trotted out the **** lineup in the 4th, and then how they doubld Tatum as soon as he came in. This is just a regular season game. We'll get that all playoff series long.

[Darth Celtic]

IT net rating of -10, Wanamaker +5 (higher is better).
https://stats.nba.com/player/202954/

Also for the whatevereth time we don't need Wanamaker to score. We have four premier perimeter scorers, two of whom are on the court at any time, and Wanamaker's job is to use his 6'3" 209lb frame to play good D, push it in transition, move the ball, and make open shots.

OR to put it another way, do you want IT taking shots from
a. Tatum
b. Walker
c. Brown
d. Hayward
e. Smart

because after that it's just scraps and we have the 5th highest offensive rating in the league (https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1) while also sporting the 3rd best defensive rating (https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1) so it seems highly unlikely we're going to bring in one of the absolute worst defenders in the league (actually he's now out of the league) and play him any minutes.

OMG this times 1 million.

Wannamaker is better in every stat except high volume scoring, which he basically doesn't do unless he's on the fast break, otherwise he passes.

People are so mad that our bench doesn't score, well, they also don't shoot much. We have 4 guys who score 20 ppg and a 5th who tries too. In the playoffs, the rotation will be much shorter. 8 guys, MAYBE 9 as we play 3 centers. Nobody will care about bench scoring. Brad rotates his 4 scorers around where 1-2 are on the court at all times to take up those shots. The bench is just to get them the shots, play defense, and rebound.

People are mad at wannabrickers bad game against the lakers and the bench lack of scoring compared to the Lakers.

Well, our 35mpg all star starting pg was out taking away our main bench scorer in Smart. Lakers have 2 off injured mega stars and a bunch of dudes. Of course they need guys to score off the bench. We have 4 scorers.

Playoffs

Kemba 35mins, Smart 13Min
Brown 35mins, Smart 13Mmin
Hayward 35m Smart 10Min Semi 3min
Tatum 36mpg, Semi 12mpg
Theis 30 MPG, Kanter 18 MPG

Now, Kanter, Semi, Timelord, Grant can all be interchanged depending on matchup and how they are playing, but the point is in the playoffs our starters should play 171mpg of a 240mpg game. That's 69 mins of bench vs the regular season which is more like 30 mpg more bench time. Smart will take up 36 of that leaving 33mins for 2-3 guys.

Unless you are injured or in foul trouble, bench is not as important in the playoffs and Bench scoring is even less to worry about when you have 4 20 ppg scorers.

IT was on a terrible team and Wannamaker plays on one of the best in the league, so you can't compare net ratings like that. As far as being a bad defender, the point of a bench scorer is not exactly defense. Do you think the Clippers expect Lou Will to play any D?? Yah, right. Not his role. Also, along with IT, Bradley Beal and Trae Young round out the top 3 worst defenders in the league. You going to tell me we wouldn't want either of those two other guys coming off our bench come playoff time, because of their bad D?

And if we play Semi 15mpg in the playoffs, we're ******. Whatever scorer is on the floor with him will be immediately double teamed. Good coaches will look for weak offensive players to leave and be able to trap/double the best scorers on the floor. Semi screams "leave me wide open" to any smart defender and opposing coach.

We have such short term memory here of playoff games we lost because of offensive lulls when bench players come into the game. We can't have offensively weak bench players. You saw how the Lakers crushed us when we trotted out the **** lineup in the 4th, and then how they doubld Tatum as soon as he came in. This is just a regular season game. We'll get that all playoff series long.

if you look at the rotations I posted and the only thing that comes out of it that playing IT at the PF spot over semi would be a net positive for us, I don't think there is any reason for us to talk basketball. Probably better to argue over the shape of the earth as that's more in question.

[zoyathedestroya]

I think our top 5 players are all capable of playing 38 mpg in the playoffs. Theis, if kept out of foul trouble, around 30 mpg. That would leave 20 minutes for Kanter/either Williams/Wanamaker/Semi/Langford depending on need/circumstance.

But again, that's cutting it close. You can't predict an injury that could keep a top player out for a game or two. So if there's anyone available that's versatile and reliable enough that could at least match our 7th to 10th guys in terms of net impact, I'd want that guy as insurance. Maybe Ainge, Brad, and co. trust the current band of young misfits more than we do. Or there just isn't a player out there that's gonna help, but adding just one vet who's been there and done that would calm my nerves a bit.

[Green89]

I think our top 5 players are all capable of playing 38 mpg in the playoffs. Theis, if kept out of foul trouble, around 30 mpg. That would leave 20 minutes for Kanter/either Williams/Wanamaker/Semi/Langford depending on need/circumstance.

But again, that's cutting it close. You can't predict an injury that could keep a top player out for a game or two. So if there's anyone available that's versatile and reliable enough that could at least match our 7th to 10th guys in terms of net impact, I'd want that guy as insurance. Maybe Ainge, Brad, and co. trust the current band of young misfits more than we do. Or there just isn't a player out there that's gonna help, but adding just one vet who's been there and done that would calm my nerves a bit.

And healthy. He's barely seen the court for us the last three years in the playoffs.

[Green89]

OMG this times 1 million.

Wannamaker is better in every stat except high volume scoring, which he basically doesn't do unless he's on the fast break, otherwise he passes.

People are so mad that our bench doesn't score, well, they also don't shoot much. We have 4 guys who score 20 ppg and a 5th who tries too. In the playoffs, the rotation will be much shorter. 8 guys, MAYBE 9 as we play 3 centers. Nobody will care about bench scoring. Brad rotates his 4 scorers around where 1-2 are on the court at all times to take up those shots. The bench is just to get them the shots, play defense, and rebound.

People are mad at wannabrickers bad game against the lakers and the bench lack of scoring compared to the Lakers.

Well, our 35mpg all star starting pg was out taking away our main bench scorer in Smart. Lakers have 2 off injured mega stars and a bunch of dudes. Of course they need guys to score off the bench. We have 4 scorers.

Playoffs

Kemba 35mins, Smart 13Min
Brown 35mins, Smart 13Mmin
Hayward 35m Smart 10Min Semi 3min
Tatum 36mpg, Semi 12mpg
Theis 30 MPG, Kanter 18 MPG

Now, Kanter, Semi, Timelord, Grant can all be interchanged depending on matchup and how they are playing, but the point is in the playoffs our starters should play 171mpg of a 240mpg game. That's 69 mins of bench vs the regular season which is more like 30 mpg more bench time. Smart will take up 36 of that leaving 33mins for 2-3 guys.

Unless you are injured or in foul trouble, bench is not as important in the playoffs and Bench scoring is even less to worry about when you have 4 20 ppg scorers.

IT was on a terrible team and Wannamaker plays on one of the best in the league, so you can't compare net ratings like that. As far as being a bad defender, the point of a bench scorer is not exactly defense. Do you think the Clippers expect Lou Will to play any D?? Yah, right. Not his role. Also, along with IT, Bradley Beal and Trae Young round out the top 3 worst defenders in the league. You going to tell me we wouldn't want either of those two other guys coming off our bench come playoff time, because of their bad D?

And if we play Semi 15mpg in the playoffs, we're ******. Whatever scorer is on the floor with him will be immediately double teamed. Good coaches will look for weak offensive players to leave and be able to trap/double the best scorers on the floor. Semi screams "leave me wide open" to any smart defender and opposing coach.

We have such short term memory here of playoff games we lost because of offensive lulls when bench players come into the game. We can't have offensively weak bench players. You saw how the Lakers crushed us when we trotted out the **** lineup in the 4th, and then how they doubld Tatum as soon as he came in. This is just a regular season game. We'll get that all playoff series long.

if you look at the rotations I posted and the only thing that comes out of it that playing IT at the PF spot over semi would be a net positive for us, I don't think there is any reason for us to talk basketball. Probably better to argue over the shape of the earth as that's more in question.

Maybe if these rotations you posted were even logical. Smart has only ever played over 30mpg once in a playoff series in his career (when he was at 32mpg) yet you have him pegged for 36. Semi played 5.7mpg in last year's playoffs and now this season, he's been utterly awful and is already behind Langford on the depth chart, but he's going to get 15mpg? Yah, totally realistic.

[Ernest]

I’m not trying to hate on our bench... BUT... against the Lakers we were right in the game with 1 of our top guys go down. But if we had 2 guys out I think it would be all over even in the first round. We have a good bench but we need one more player. Doesn’t even matter the position really.

Let’s just sign the best vet we can, see if they can crack our rotation.

[snowman]

Or we could just give Langford the minutes that Semi and Wannamaker would get. He can be our 5-6 scorer off the bench, and holds his own on defense. Her also doesn't get stupid fouls. I think that is why he is getting minutes now, CBS getting him ready for playoff time.

[Gant]

Kanter has been ineffective since his hip injury. Hopefully he'll get back to what he was.

It does look like Langford's moved ahead of Ojeleye and Green, and has a good shot of being in the playoff rotation. His defense has been more than acceptable; it's been shockingly good. If he can develop a little comfort on offense in the next couple of months, that would be big.

As a lottery pick with length and ability, it makes sense that Romeo has moved up the ladder. He's been injured or playing injured back to his college days. Now he's finally healthy.

[Ben-N1ce]

Bench isn't good. Should have at least one knock down shooter to spread the floor and make people pay on double teams. They don't have one guy that can be counted on to even pick up the slack in one game of a seven game series if the starters aren't balling out or god forbid an injury.

[TheMartian]

Is Jamal Crawford still serviceable?

[BillessuR6]

Ryan Broekhoff is available, he was cut by Dallas for MKG...he is shooting 40 % from three…

Do not know much about him but he can shoot it seems...

[Floody100]

Ryan Broekhoff is available, he was cut by Dallas for MKG...he is shooting 40 % from three…

Do not know much about him but he can shoot it seems...

Don’t know how good he is defensively but he’s a good catch & shoot player.
We’d probably cut Javonte if we were looking to bring him in.

[Higgs Boston]

The team needs to cut Green and sign someone useful, we already have 2 wasted roster spots. If you don't trust Green and don't use him why the hell you want him on the roster?
The current situation is really absurd.

[chrisab123]

How bad is IT right now? This guy should have been signed to take over for Wannamaker.

[5InOfLouisville]

How bad is IT right now? This guy should have been signed to take over for Wannamaker.

Wannamaker > IT. At almost everything. IT is a SLIGHTLY better 3 point shooter at this point. That's it.

And that is more an indictment of IT than a pro-brad stance, although i do think wannamaker has been, for the most part, serviceable.