2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22

[BostonCouchGM]

Failed to mention my top choice isn't a player YET, but trading PP for either another pick or package to move up.

this is my hope. There's a few teams with multiple 1st round picks:

Jazz have three (needs a PG and Ainge drafted him)
Pacers have three (need another PG and they need shooting)
Blazers have two (might move on from Dame and might need PG either starter or depth)
Magic have two (not a need)
Rockets have two (need shooting and a PG)
Hornets have two (need depth)

It's imho a weaker draft. There isn't a PG that is anywhere near PP's value after the lottery. The only issue might be that he'll be on the last year of his contract (though he's a RFA so there's some control) so teams might not want to give up a first round pick and a player they can control for several years and the fact that he's cheap and still under contract and we have guys who have missed time and it's always nice to have depth so we might not be willing.

The Jazz remain the favorites. I think he would start for them and Ainge knows if he produces and is a wild success he can match offers to keep him long-term and if he's average, he can keep him cheap as depth. I think a guy like Trace Jackson-Davis, a 4/5 I think we should get, might go in that late 1st so Utah might be willing to trade back to our 33/35 pick from their 29 pick if he's still available and we offer PP.

Knowing Ainge, and the fact that he's got three 1st round picks and no real immediate expectations placed upon him, he might be more interested in taking a draft and stash or long-term project. But since this is a weak class, there really aren't a lot of players that fit this description which could be in our favor.

The Blazers are the next most logical landing spot. They are cost-conscience so his RFA rights likely appeal to them. They badly need PG depth as it is and if they choose to move Dame and/or Simons and rebuild he could start. PP played college at ORE and is kind of a cult hero there. People forget that PP was an excellent college player and Pac12 player of the year. Acquiring him would be a great marketing move.

[Hal14]

Mock draft posted yesterday:

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nba-mock-draft-april-14-post-march-madness/

Leonard miller, lively, clowney, murray, Jackson-davis, Nnaji all off the board before our pick.

They have us taking Marcus Sasser, a 6'2" combo-guard who's a decent defender, decent passer, really good shooter. Sasser is a good player and could end up having a decent career as a role player, but I think all of us don't really want us to take an undersized guard with this pick.

In this mock, the 2 guys who really stand out who are still on the board at 35 = Sidy Cissoko and Julian Strawther. Both wings, although Cissoko could potentially play some at the 4 (his best position is the 3, though).

If we go BPA, we would take 1 of them. I'm very high on both of them.

If we want to grab a big man, it would probably be Bona. Weird, that they don't have Bona being drafted at all in this mock. Perhaps they have intel that he's returning to college? I have heard some rumors lately that he will be returning to college, but haven't heard anything official yet.

The other bigs still available at 35 in this mock who I like are Oso Ighodao (hasn't declared yet), Eli N'diaye and Vukcevic (hasn't declared yet). Others I like who are still on the board at 35 here = Jordan Miller, Jalen Slawson, Kobe Brown.

Needless to say, there will be some good options available at 33 or 35.

[captain green]

I could only see two seconds not 3 but I'd trade to get into the late first and target derrick livlely. Both seconds and pp should get it done.

[Curmudgeon]

I wouldn't be disappointed with Tubelis, the Lithuanian kid who averaged nearly 20 ppg for Arizona, and led the Pac-10 in fg percentage. He's big, strong and efficient. When Arizona lost to Princeton, Tubelis was about the only Wildcat who showed up.

[BostonCouchGM]

Mock draft posted yesterday:

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nba-mock-draft-april-14-post-march-madness/

Leonard miller, lively, clowney, murray, Jackson-davis, Nnaji all off the board before our pick.

They have us taking Marcus Sasser, a 6'2" combo-guard who's a decent defender, decent passer, really good shooter. Sasser is a good player and could end up having a decent career as a role player, but I think all of us don't really want us to take an undersized guard with this pick.

In this mock, the 2 guys who really stand out who are still on the board at 35 = Sidy Cissoko and Julian Strawther. Both wings, although Cissoko could potentially play some at the 4 (his best position is the 3, though).

If we go BPA, we would take 1 of them. I'm very high on both of them.

If we want to grab a big man, it would probably be Bona. Weird, that they don't have Bona being drafted at all in this mock. Perhaps they have intel that he's returning to college? I have heard some rumors lately that he will be returning to college, but haven't heard anything official yet.

The other bigs still available at 35 in this mock who I like are Oso Ighodao (hasn't declared yet), Eli N'diaye and Vukcevic (hasn't declared yet). Others I like who are still on the board at 35 here = Jordan Miller, Jalen Slawson, Kobe Brown.

Needless to say, there will be some good options available at 33 or 35.

I hate when the people that do mock drafts don’t know the teams they’re mocking for. We just took JD so there’s almost no chance we take a small PG

He’s got the Rockets taking Miller when they just took Smith.

But tbh, the rest of the mock is actually pretty damn solid. I agree with pretty much every pick except HOU

[165bows]

I wouldn't be disappointed with Tubelis, the Lithuanian kid who averaged nearly 20 ppg for Arizona, and led the Pac-10 in fg percentage. He's big, strong and efficient. When Arizona lost to Princeton, Tubelis was about the only Wildcat who showed up.

Agree I think he's a candidate on the list. This team likes bigs with ball skills and he's solid there though seems like the shooting is still more potential than reality. Should be decently defensively. Also gets up and down the floor quickly. Fell off the mocks after they got bounced early in the tourney but he's a good potential versatile back up big man.

[Hal14]

I wouldn't be disappointed with Tubelis, the Lithuanian kid who averaged nearly 20 ppg for Arizona, and led the Pac-10 in fg percentage. He's big, strong and efficient. When Arizona lost to Princeton, Tubelis was about the only Wildcat who showed up.

Agree I think he's a candidate on the list. This team likes bigs with ball skills and he's solid there though seems like the shooting is still more potential than reality. Should be decently defensively. Also gets up and down the floor quickly. Fell off the mocks after they got bounced early in the tourney but he's a good potential versatile back up big man.

I'm not too high on Tubelis.

Moves fairly well and has pretty good skill set for a 6'11" dude. He's certainly draftable but I wouldn't take him till mid to late 2nd round. Think we can do better at 33 / 35.

Tubelis is kind of similar to Sanogo in that a lot of his points come off post ups (play type that doesn't translate as well to the NBA game) or they're easy layups/dunks after catching a dump-off pass in the dunker's spot. Not great athleticism, not a great rim runner / rim protector type of big. More of a finesse/skilled big who can shoot/handle/pass pretty well, but I'm not sure if he does any of those things well enough. And overall, his defense is kind of suspect.

[Hal14]

I know I've posted about him already, but I am really high on Bobi Klintman and don't think 33/35 would be reach at all to pick him.

His stats at Wake Forest might not jump off the page. But some college teams bring freshmen along slowly, don't give them much of a role or many minutes.

When he did get more minutes and a bigger role, he averaged 16 PPG, 10 RPG, 5 APG, 1.5 SPG and 1 BPG. A look at the footage from that tournament:

Watch on YouTube

Klintman shot 44% from 3 on 3 attempts per game over his last 17 games.

In depth piece with clips from various parts of his game:
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/bobi-klintman-the-swede-freak-the

A couple of games:

2:10 smooth, catch and shoot 3
3:03 nice dig here on help defense, comes up with the steal. Leads the break, hits the open shooter for a transition 3
3:26 good defense in space here. Filipowski tries to drive on him in isolation, gets nowhere. Good D to shut down the drive and force Filipowski to pass it.
3:49 smooth catch and shoot 3

Watch on YouTube

3:45 Here we see him run PnR, throws a great pass to the roll man for the layup. 6'10" freshmen in a high major conference who can run PnR typically go in the 1st round.

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUid2FrZSBmb3Jlc3QgdnMgbmMgc3RhdGUgYmFza2V0YmFsbA%3D%3D

Like his versatility, too. Can handle it, pass, shoot. On defense can defend inside or outside. Best position is stretch 4. But could play some small ball 5 too, and maybe even some at the 3.

Let's take a swing on a guy with some size, skill and some serious upside. Still young, too - just turned 20.

[165bows]

I wouldn't be disappointed with Tubelis, the Lithuanian kid who averaged nearly 20 ppg for Arizona, and led the Pac-10 in fg percentage. He's big, strong and efficient. When Arizona lost to Princeton, Tubelis was about the only Wildcat who showed up.

Agree I think he's a candidate on the list. This team likes bigs with ball skills and he's solid there though seems like the shooting is still more potential than reality. Should be decently defensively. Also gets up and down the floor quickly. Fell off the mocks after they got bounced early in the tourney but he's a good potential versatile back up big man.

I'm not too high on Tubelis.

Moves fairly well and has pretty good skill set for a 6'11" dude. He's certainly draftable but I wouldn't take him till mid to late 2nd round. Think we can do better at 33 / 35.

Tubelis is kind of similar to Sanogo in that a lot of his points come off post ups (play type that doesn't translate as well to the NBA game) or they're easy layups/dunks after catching a dump-off pass in the dunker's spot. Not great athleticism, not a great rim runner / rim protector type of big. More of a finesse/skilled big who can shoot/handle/pass pretty well, but I'm not sure if he does any of those things well enough. And overall, his defense is kind of suspect.

I agree they could prob move down and he'd be available. I think you are underselling a few points though. He's not a rim protecting big (though outside of Rob it hasn't been a big priority for this team), but he does play well in transition, with foot speed, passing and handling. And he's not a great defensive guy, but he was recruited based primarily on his D and then developed into a scorer. More of a Grant Williams type versatile defender than a lock down or shot blocking guy.

So I agree he is a skilled big who may or may not be good enough to make it on those merits but better or worse big men with skill is what this team targets. He prob doesn't make it and goes to Europe but he's got an outside shot at being able to compete as a big while shooting and passing and that's the type of back up big this team has brought in (Muscala, Kornet, Blake et al). Vonleh wasn't great at either but he had some basic balls skills for a big as well.

Edit: from a couple years back.

Watch on YouTube

Not any slam dunk choice or anything but he ticks some basic boxes of what the team likes in it's bigs and has steadily improved.

[Curmudgeon]

Not any slam dunk choice or anything but he ticks some basic boxes of what the team likes in it's bigs and has steadily improved.

And he has that Darius Songaila drop step. There is something to be said for players who understand the five man game.

There are definitely guys that could be there at #35 who are more attractive, e.g Dariq Whitehead or Dereck Lively. But you never know.

[Hal14]

This means we get the 35th pick, I think. Since the rockets have 2nd worst record, their 2nd round pick will be 32. We would have gotten their 2nd rounder if it was 33 or worse.

Pretty sure this makes it official - we'll have the 35th pick.

Read on Twitter

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/36192329/2023-nba-draft-complete-order-all-58-picks

Bummer that we're not getting the 33rd pick. Would have been nice to move up 2 spots. But This is a deep draft. We can still get a good player at 35.

[165bows]

This means we get the 35th pick, I think. Since the rockets have 2nd worst record, their 2nd round pick will be 32. We would have gotten their 2nd rounder if it was 33 or worse.

Pretty sure this makes it official - we'll have the 35th pick.

Read on Twitter

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/36192329/2023-nba-draft-complete-order-all-58-picks

Bummer that we're not getting the 33rd pick. Would have been nice to move up 2 spots. But This is a deep draft. We can still get a good player at 35.

Is that even accurate? Hadn't we found that the second rounders land the inverse order of the first for tie-breakers? Could be wrong but thought that's how it went. I mean, not much difference but I think they might actually have that backwards.

Currently team has 11 guys under contract (including Muscala's team option (and Gallo) but assuming Pritchard doesn't come back) next year. Becomes 12 with Grant back, 13 with Griffin and 14 with Davison, plus the two stash guys in the potential mix. So it's a pretty full roster.

Unless there are deals seems like the young-guy two-way may be back in order, so some of these young international guys may be the move again, or at least a young guy overall that doesn't need time outside the G-league.

Edit:

This is two years old so may have changed, but cites what I mentioned above (at the verrry bottom).

Might have changed but here it indicates what I'd thought (see OKC/CLE picks in 1st/2nd).

https://pr.nba.com/tiebreakers-2021-nba-draft/

[Hal14]

This means we get the 35th pick, I think. Since the rockets have 2nd worst record, their 2nd round pick will be 32. We would have gotten their 2nd rounder if it was 33 or worse.

Pretty sure this makes it official - we'll have the 35th pick.

Read on Twitter

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/36192329/2023-nba-draft-complete-order-all-58-picks

Bummer that we're not getting the 33rd pick. Would have been nice to move up 2 spots. But This is a deep draft. We can still get a good player at 35.

Is that even accurate? Hadn't we found that the second rounders land the inverse order of the first for tie-breakers? Could be wrong but thought that's how it went. I mean, not much difference but I think they might actually have that backwards.

Looks like according to this, 35th pick it is for us.

Lottery results only impact the draft order of picks 1-14.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-lottery-explainer

The Draft selections for the remainder of the first round (No. 15-30) and the entire second round (No. 30-60), are determined by reverse order of regular season record. Each NBA team gets one selection in the first round and one selection in the second round.

So, that's why there was a coin toss today with rockets and spurs. Since they finished with same reg season record. And picks 15-60 are determined by reverse of regular season record.

So, regardless of lottery results, rockets get 32nd pick and we get 35th pick.

[165bows]

This means we get the 35th pick, I think. Since the rockets have 2nd worst record, their 2nd round pick will be 32. We would have gotten their 2nd rounder if it was 33 or worse.

Pretty sure this makes it official - we'll have the 35th pick.

Read on Twitter

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/36192329/2023-nba-draft-complete-order-all-58-picks

Bummer that we're not getting the 33rd pick. Would have been nice to move up 2 spots. But This is a deep draft. We can still get a good player at 35.

Is that even accurate? Hadn't we found that the second rounders land the inverse order of the first for tie-breakers? Could be wrong but thought that's how it went. I mean, not much difference but I think they might actually have that backwards.

Looks like according to this, 35th pick it is for us.

Lottery results only impact the draft order of picks 1-14.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-lottery-explainer

The Draft selections for the remainder of the first round (No. 15-30) and the entire second round (No. 30-60), are determined by reverse order of regular season record. Each NBA team gets one selection in the first round and one selection in the second round.

So, that's why there was a coin toss today with rockets and spurs. Since they finished with same reg season record. And picks 15-60 are determined by reverse of regular season record.

So, regardless of lottery results, rockets get 32nd pick and we get 35th pick.

Well that doesn't even address the second round (edit: tiebreakers) at all, as the link I posted did. From that link:

Note: Teams that finished the regular season with identical records will select in the second round in inverse order of the order in which they select in the first round. With respect to ties between Lottery teams: since the order of selection in the first round for these sets of teams may change based on the results of the Lottery, the order of selection in the second round cannot be determined until after the Lottery is conducted (on June 22, 2021).

After picking that out of the link I posted, it looks like they likely will pick #33 unless the lottery changes the odds (edit: order). There isn't anything in your link that addresses that just fyi.

[snowman]

Is that even accurate? Hadn't we found that the second rounders land the inverse order of the first for tie-breakers? Could be wrong but thought that's how it went. I mean, not much difference but I think they might actually have that backwards.

Looks like according to this, 35th pick it is for us.

Lottery results only impact the draft order of picks 1-14.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-lottery-explainer

The Draft selections for the remainder of the first round (No. 15-30) and the entire second round (No. 30-60), are determined by reverse order of regular season record. Each NBA team gets one selection in the first round and one selection in the second round.

So, that's why there was a coin toss today with rockets and spurs. Since they finished with same reg season record. And picks 15-60 are determined by reverse of regular season record.

So, regardless of lottery results, rockets get 32nd pick and we get 35th pick.

Well that doesn't even address the second round (edit: tiebreakers) at all, as the link I posted did. From that link:

Note: Teams that finished the regular season with identical records will select in the second round in inverse order of the order in which they select in the first round. With respect to ties between Lottery teams: since the order of selection in the first round for these sets of teams may change based on the results of the Lottery, the order of selection in the second round cannot be determined until after the Lottery is conducted (on June 22, 2021).

After picking that out of the link I posted, it looks like they likely will pick #33 unless the lottery changes the odds (edit: order). There isn't anything in your link that addresses that just fyi.

Tankathon has had us picking 35th all along until today, after the coin toss. Now they have us moved to the 33rd. At the bottom of their site, it also mentions that ties that are settled in the first round, are in reverse order in the second round.

But they also have us with the 35th pick from Portland, which I don't we get to keep if we got the 33rd. So, who knows.

[Trilogy25]

Yeah, it won't be decided until May. Houston's 1st needs to remain ahead of San Antonio's after the lottery.

[playa-hater]

thanks now I am more confused than ever.

But after reading these posts, I think we pick 33

[Hal14]

Is that even accurate? Hadn't we found that the second rounders land the inverse order of the first for tie-breakers? Could be wrong but thought that's how it went. I mean, not much difference but I think they might actually have that backwards.

Looks like according to this, 35th pick it is for us.

Lottery results only impact the draft order of picks 1-14.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-lottery-explainer

The Draft selections for the remainder of the first round (No. 15-30) and the entire second round (No. 30-60), are determined by reverse order of regular season record. Each NBA team gets one selection in the first round and one selection in the second round.

So, that's why there was a coin toss today with rockets and spurs. Since they finished with same reg season record. And picks 15-60 are determined by reverse of regular season record.

So, regardless of lottery results, rockets get 32nd pick and we get 35th pick.

Well that doesn't even address the second round (edit: tiebreakers) at all, as the link I posted did. From that link:

Note: Teams that finished the regular season with identical records will select in the second round in inverse order of the order in which they select in the first round. With respect to ties between Lottery teams: since the order of selection in the first round for these sets of teams may change based on the results of the Lottery, the order of selection in the second round cannot be determined until after the Lottery is conducted (on June 22, 2021).

After picking that out of the link I posted, it looks like they likely will pick #33 unless the lottery changes the odds (edit: order). There isn't anything in your link that addresses that just fyi.

Hmm. Well your Link is from 2021. Mine is from 2023 so maybe the rule was changed recently. Idk..

Both of our links came straight off nba.com

There's also this:

Read on Twitter

The drawing would appear to be what happened today, where Rockets get 2nd worst record, and 32nd pick - which Weiss says the pick will go to IND. But if the drawing had the Rockets with 3rd worst record, it would have been 33rd pick and we would have gotten the 33rd pick...I think lol

[cl2117]

Unless they've changed the rules, which I haven't seen, then the tiebreakers flip in the 2nd round.

So Houston winning the tiebreaker is good for us. They have the "2nd" pick right now pre-lottery (obviously lottery odds are same for top 3), which leaves the Spurs with the "3rd" pick. That then flips in the 2nd round giving us 33 overall and Spurs having 32.

That's how it will play out unless the Spurs jump Houston as part of the lottery. In that scenario the Rockets will get 32 (going to Indy) and Spurs get 33, with the Celtics taking home 35 from Portland.

As 165bows pointed out the best example from recent years is OKC/CLE in 2021:

OKC won the tiebreaker coin flip so got better lottery odds and should have had later 2nd round pick as a result. Cleveland then jumps them in the lottery and therefore OKC retains the higher 2nd round pick despite having won the tiebreaker coin flip.

So at this stage we're rooting for the Rockets to get higher pick than Spurs and that will then cement us getting the 33rd pick. So we won't know for another month, but this is a positive result in the interim.

[Hal14]

Unless they've changed the rules, which I haven't seen, then the tiebreakers flip in the 2nd round.

So Houston winning the tiebreaker is good for us. They have the "2nd" pick right now pre-lottery (obviously lottery odds are same for top 3), which leaves the Spurs with the "3rd" pick. That then flips in the 2nd round giving us 33 overall and Spurs having 32.

That's how it will play out unless the Spurs jump Houston as part of the lottery. In that scenario the Rockets will get 32 (going to Indy) and Spurs get 33, with the Celtics taking home 35 from Portland.

As 165bows pointed out the best example from recent years is OKC/CLE in 2021:

OKC won the tiebreaker coin flip so got better lottery odds and should have had later 2nd round pick as a result. Cleveland then jumps them in the lottery and therefore OKC retains the higher 2nd round pick despite having won the tiebreaker coin flip.

So at this stage we're rooting for the Rockets to get higher pick than Spurs and that will then cement us getting the 33rd pick. So we won't know for another month, but this is a positive result in the interim.

It seems like the rule has changed then.

This article was last updated on 4/17/23 at 5:30 pm:

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-lottery-explainer

The Draft selections for the remainder of the first round (No. 15-30) and the entire second round (No. 30-60), are determined by reverse order of regular season record.

So according to this, the 2nd round draft order is simply the reverse order of the standings, so worst team gets pick 31, rockets get pick 32 (to IND), etc. and we get pick 35..