LeBron startled by hypocrisy of KG, PP leaving Celtics

[SuperDeluxe]

Well, I'm a simple man. I believe in what I can prove, or what makes logical sense, so unless people can present evidence of this claim I'm going to assume it is untrue.

So I assume you're already googling?

I'm out. Good luck.

[DijonRondo]

People have already made my point for me. What Lebron said is pretty reasonable. Guys ripped on Ray for leaving, even though the Celtics were the ones who wouldn't show Ray any loyalty. I'm also not sure the Celtics were really still a real shot for the title when Ray booked, though of course they weren't rebuilding like they are now. KG could have retired or suffered through it, but like most players he did what was best for him. And so did Ray (and in retrospect it worked for him).

Ray owed nothing to the Celtics, but he owed everything to his brothers, KG and Pierce, and the Celtics FANS.

KG and Pierce were the ones who told Ainge to stop the Grizzlies trade, and now he turns his back on them?! (IIRC) The Celtics probably would have made the finals if they had Mayo playing sixth man too.

KG didn't only just do what was best for him, he did what was best for the Celtics organization, because without him, the Celtics wouldn't have gotten the return that they got. Lebron didn't say anything that was reasonable, and anyone who agrees with him is beyond me.

[2Mas]

Man just stop even responding to this clown Durins Baynes.

Yo man. Worry about your team. You have nothing to do with Celtic business.

[Durins Baynes]

For all you know I am a Celtic fan. Strictly speaking Celtic interests are best served by Doc staying on the Celtics, and not coaching a rival team into the future. I'm not sure how helping Brooklyn really serves Celtic interests, given the fairly modest return obtained for them in a trade. Lastly, OJ Mayo is not any sort of upgrade on Ray Allen. Mayo has already proven he doesn't belong on a winning team. I think a lot of Celtic fans are disappointed with sending off Pierce, KG and Doc, and the decision not to pay more to keep Allen. You could easily have tanked this year with KG and Pierce playing every 2nd game in limited minutes (and with other moves designed to artificially lower the win total). Pierce especially clearly didn't want to go elsewhere. Personally of course, I'd have traded them, or KG at least, because this is a business. But if it's a business, you can't fault Ray for leaving either. It's pretty obvious which way the wind was blowing. The Celtics wanted to replace him with Bradley, and were heading towards a rebuild. He just got out a year early.

[aporel18]

For all you know I am a Celtic fan. Strictly speaking Celtic interests are best served by Doc staying on the Celtics, and not coaching a rival team into the future. I'm not sure how helping Brooklyn really serves Celtic interests, given the fairly modest return obtained for them in a trade. Lastly, OJ Mayo is not any sort of upgrade on Ray Allen. Mayo has already proven he doesn't belong on a winning team. I think a lot of Celtic fans are disappointed with sending off Pierce, KG and Doc, and the decision not to pay more to keep Allen. You could easily have tanked this year with KG and Pierce playing every 2nd game in limited minutes (and with other moves designed to artificially lower the win total). Pierce especially clearly didn't want to go elsewhere. Personally of course, I'd have traded them, or KG at least, because this is a business. But if it's a business, you can't fault Ray for leaving either. It's pretty obvious which way the wind was blowing. The Celtics wanted to replace him with Bradley, and were heading towards a rebuild. He just got out a year early.

Mayo was healthy, Ray's ankles were shot and he was less than 40% the player he was the previous season. That could've made a difference, but KG and PP stood up for Ray. That's what bummed KG.

But this is not about Ray, I don't care about Ray, he did what was best for him, and he didn't care about his teammates, fans or the Club. KG and PP worked a deal that was the best option for both themselves and the Celtics. KG and PP acted like Celtics and to me they're Celtics for life. That's what this whole thread is about. You can't compare the two situations and if an idiot like LeBroid or a dirty scumbag like Wade call out KG and PP, Celtic fans have all the right to defend them. KG and PP deserve to be defended by Celtic fans. Ray... I don't give a **** for him.

LeBrick and LeHamster aka D-Whistle should shut up and mind their own business. I don't think it's that hard to understand.

[Fiktion]

LeBron James won't talk about Brooklyn Nets that were former Celtics anymore

“I’m not commenting on any more teams or players,” James said before the start of Thursday’s preseason game against the Nets, when asked an innocuous question about the Nets' chances of contending for a title.

[kulo]

For all you know I am a Celtic fan. Strictly speaking Celtic interests are best served by Doc staying on the Celtics, and not coaching a rival team into the future. I'm not sure how helping Brooklyn really serves Celtic interests, given the fairly modest return obtained for them in a trade. Lastly, OJ Mayo is not any sort of upgrade on Ray Allen. Mayo has already proven he doesn't belong on a winning team. I think a lot of Celtic fans are disappointed with sending off Pierce, KG and Doc, and the decision not to pay more to keep Allen. You could easily have tanked this year with KG and Pierce playing every 2nd game in limited minutes (and with other moves designed to artificially lower the win total). Pierce especially clearly didn't want to go elsewhere. Personally of course, I'd have traded them, or KG at least, because this is a business. But if it's a business, you can't fault Ray for leaving either. It's pretty obvious which way the wind was blowing. The Celtics wanted to replace him with Bradley, and were heading towards a rebuild. He just got out a year early.

No, for all I know you're a Spurs fan.
Yeah! that's going to go down well with Stern! Why would Ainge want to keep KG and Pierce and then not play them
Instead he gets 3 1st rounders - But somehow he is trying to help Brooklyn, but you know we would be tanking with KG, Pierce and Terry! YEP, Danny somehow got 4 1st rounders from trading the tank brigade! But I guess that's a fairly modest return!? well which one is it?

[Durins Baynes]

I think Danny wanted something back, and I would have done the same thing (which I already said). But if it's fair game to trade your players, it's fair game for them to leave when they see the writing on the wall anyway.

[GreenBloodedC]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR5RGAcPhSw[/youtube]
Pierce just responded.

BTW, it was really cool when Pierce said "I left Boston?"

[campybatman]

I think LeBron's criticism is misguided. If we're talking about disloyalty, I still point the finger at Rivers for bailing on Boston. I mean, if you're under contract, then you honor that contract. The Boston ownership made him one of the highest paid head coaches in the NBA. So I don't blame them for no longer wanting to take on his salary if he no longer had a desire to be the head coach of the Boston Celtics.

Pierce only encouraged Garnett to accept a trade to Brooklyn because he was faced with the choices of playing in Boston without him and Rondo or retire. On the other hand, if you waive your no-trade clause, you get traded to a contending team. The circumstances dictated the decision of Ainge and Garnett. Nobody just left...

I disagree. It wasn't hard for Allen to sign elsewhere. He no longer wanted to be a Celtic. If the reports are true, he could've re-signed with Boston for a higher salary and snubbed Boston. In my opinion, I believe his decision had more to do with Ainge than Rondo.

You have to admit they've got point here. All they talked about was loyalty, and Garnett constantly talked about "bleeding green," and yet once the rats appeared to be bailing on the good ship Celtic, he and Pierce sailed off to Brooklyn, leaving Rajon Rondo alone to go down to the sea. And that's fine. You've got to look out for your career. But to blast Allen as publicly as they did and then turn around and bail, to a division rival, when things got tough, is not a great look.

The answer will be that Pierce and Garnett were traded, they didn't leave as free agents. But Garnett had to approve the trade to make it work, and Pierce has admitted to lobbying him to do so. It was obviously hard for them to leave Boston, but it was probably also hard for Allen to do the same.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... over-allen

[15th overall]

Well, I'm a simple man. I believe in what I can prove, or what makes logical sense, so unless people can present evidence of this claim I'm going to assume it is untrue.

But you can't prove your assumptions...

Ray was pricing himself out so he'd have a "reason" to bolt.. it was a half assed PR move. Not sure what makes this so unbelievable for you but that would seem to be your problem.

[Durins Baynes]

My assumptions don't rely on claims I can't prove. You claim Ray asked for $12 mill a year- please provide proof if you're going to insist it's true.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

For all you know I am a Celtic fan. Strictly speaking Celtic interests are best served by Doc staying on the Celtics, and not coaching a rival team into the future. I'm not sure how helping Brooklyn really serves Celtic interests, given the fairly modest return obtained for them in a trade. Lastly, OJ Mayo is not any sort of upgrade on Ray Allen. Mayo has already proven he doesn't belong on a winning team. I think a lot of Celtic fans are disappointed with sending off Pierce, KG and Doc, and the decision not to pay more to keep Allen. You could easily have tanked this year with KG and Pierce playing every 2nd game in limited minutes (and with other moves designed to artificially lower the win total). Pierce especially clearly didn't want to go elsewhere. Personally of course, I'd have traded them, or KG at least, because this is a business. But if it's a business, you can't fault Ray for leaving either. It's pretty obvious which way the wind was blowing. The Celtics wanted to replace him with Bradley, and were heading towards a rebuild. He just got out a year early.

How do Walter Allen's balls taste, now that they reside in sweaty south beach?

Do tell.

[kgfor3]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rodboone/status/391036506133258240[/tweet]

Love KG

[15th overall]

Multiple eye witnesses are enough evidence to send a man to his death in the eyes of the law.. but when it comes to Ray Allen's contract demands that just doesn't cut the mustard.

This is probably all an elaborate ruse to make an ass out of RealGM poster Durins Baynes (and it's working!). Good detective work, gumshoe.

[Reservoirdawgs]

Ray owed nothing to the Celtics, but he owed everything to his brothers, KG and Pierce, and the Celtics FANS.

KG and Pierce were the ones who told Ainge to stop the Grizzlies trade, and now he turns his back on them?! (IIRC) The Celtics probably would have made the finals if they had Mayo playing sixth man too.

KG didn't only just do what was best for him, he did what was best for the Celtics organization, because without him, the Celtics wouldn't have gotten the return that they got. Lebron didn't say anything that was reasonable, and anyone who agrees with him is beyond me.

That is an incredibly ridiculous point. Allen was a free agent who used his free agent powers to go to a place he thought was best for his family and his career. It's his right to go to a place he wants instead of re-signing with an organization that was going no where and had repeatedly tried to trade him over the years. Pierce and Garnett did not leave for the benefit of their franchise - they were under contract and could be traded by the Celtics management. Celtics management traded Pierce and KG for the benefit of the franchise, not for the benefit for the players. They didn't even want to be traded, but the Celtics did it anyways (well, they traded Pierce and when it was obvious they were rebuilding KG agreed to waive his no-trade clause because he wanted to be paid instead of retire and he didn't want to stay on a team that was rebuilding. This is the guy who 'bleeds green' btw). Allen isn't brothers with KG and Pierce, he doesn't owe anything to them just like neither of them owe anything to each other. To try to assert otherwise is just being ridiculous and emotional. As the ridiculousness of the responses in the Celtics board has shown the past year, Allen certainly doesn't owe the "fans" anything.

It's not really Lebron exposing the hypocrisy of Garnett and Pierce (even if they did act very foolish when Ray signed with the Heat) but rather exposing the hypocrisy of NBA fans. Fans are hyper emotional and don't really care about the players but rather themselves and their team. Let's assume that Allen re-signed with the Celtics last summer - he would have been on a bad team going no where and would now have been traded somewhere he did not want to be (when he could have just signed with whoever he wanted had he gone the free agent route). Do you think any of the Boston fans would bemoan Celtics management for not being loyal to Allen? Of course not, they would have wanted to get rid of him and get anything in return because "he doesn't fit with the rebuilding year". Basically, Celtics fans are upset at Allen because he had the audacity to go somewhere he wanted to go instead of stay on a sinking ship with management that had tried to trade him (actually, HAD traded him) to a place he didn't want to go.

In the end, Garnett and Pierce are the ones who look the most foolish and Allen looks the most justified. He went to a team that won the championship and his Game 6 shot has become timeless and will be replayed every June during the NBA Finals. The Celtics got one more year of ticket sales out of Pierce and Garnett and were able to get out of their contracts and get some relief for their eventual rebuild. Garnett and Pierce, however, were screwed. They wanted to retire as Celtics but management viewed them as disposable and traded them just like they tried to trade Allen several times (and would have done again this year if Allen had resigned with them).

[KGboss]

My assumptions don't rely on claims I can't prove. You claim Ray asked for $12 mill a year- please provide proof if you're going to insist it's true.

There was a report that came out after the 2012 ECF while they were doing contract negotioations that Ray kept coming back to the table with increaingly ridiculous offers. Celtics offered him 2 years and a no trade clause - same contract KG got, and Ray asked for an obscene amount of money in order to accept it. Im not sure if it was actually 12 million, but if you really want to read it you can do your own detective work on the subject.

I know the article which is being talked about, so im just here to support the claim.




Additionally - and in no response to the poster quoted, How awesome is Pierce right now? going at Lebron like that on the court. This is a mans game. Men dont do their talking behind a camera.

[SuperDeluxe]

Reservoirdawgs, even if I don't agree with everything you said, that was a great post, thank you.

Let's assume that Allen re-signed with the Celtics last summer - he would have been on a bad team going no where and would now have been traded somewhere he did not want to be (when he could have just signed with whoever he wanted had he gone the free agent route). Do you think any of the Boston fans would bemoan Celtics management for not being loyal to Allen? Of course not, they would have wanted to get rid of him and get anything in return because "he doesn't fit with the rebuilding year".

I'm going to assume you don't know Celtics fans. There were A LOT of fans on this very board (maybe even the majority) who were crucifying Danny Ainge here even before the Nets trade happened -- they believed that loyalty was owed to both of these players, in particular Pierce. Just wanted to clarify that.

[exculpatory]

A word spelled correctly with more than 1 syllable would STARTLE (& befuddle) LeBron.

On the other hand, he has tens of millions of dollars. LOL.

[Durins Baynes]

Multiple eye witnesses are enough evidence to send a man to his death in the eyes of the law.. but when it comes to Ray Allen's contract demands that just doesn't cut the mustard.

This is probably all an elaborate ruse to make an ass out of RealGM poster Durins Baynes (and it's working!). Good detective work, gumshoe.

Eye witnesses who were actually there, and are swearing before a court risking perjury charges. You're some dude on the internet who could be a 10 year old from South Korea for all we know, astonishingly the credibility of "anonymous people on the internet" is meaningless, in a court of law or otherwise. Back your claim up with evidence, or stop asserting it. Put up or shut up.