The Pursuit of Paul George

[ConstableGeneva]

Spoiler:

It's very possible the Celtics can get both George/Hayward. It depends on the order they do it in and 3 of (Brown, Bradley, Smart, Tatum and Crowder) have to go.

So it means Hayward is a S&T acquisition? 'Cos we need the cap space to sign PG to an extension.

Not if you sign Hayward first. Order is important. That's why the deal probably wasn't done last night.

Kaufman is suggesting a three-year extension. In order to extend a player, Celtics would need the cap space, which we will already use to sign Hayward if he's not a S&T. With cap space gone, Cs can't extend George.

That's different from simply signing Hayward into cap space then trading for George, no problem. The extension part is where it gets confusing for me.

Smitty, where you at?

Also, why would PG even agree to this? Wouldn't he able to maximize his profits if he waited for his current contract to expire instead then sign a 4-year contract next offseason?

[sully00]

We still need to make moves to open up space for Hayward though. My head is spinning right now where is Smitty at

You do not make moves prior to signing anyone. Agree to sign the player then spin off the parts as necessary. Only idiots trade assets, by that I mean good players on good contracts prior to having a deal. Think the Kings last year.

[Green_teamer]

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[pasfru]

Also, I'm assuming George's extension would need to be at the max ($30 million). Since that salary wouldn't kick in until 2018/19, does that mean the salary for George, in terms of salary-matching purposes of the trade, would still be at his current salary of $17-18 million?

They'd have to renegotiate next year's contract for it to be practical, which makes free agency a bit tighter. George can only sign an extension for 2018-19 starting at $23.4M on his current money.

[Darth Celtic]

So it means Hayward is a S&T acquisition? 'Cos we need the cap space to sign PG to an extension.

Not if you sign Hayward first. Order is important. That's why the deal probably wasn't done last night.

Kaufman is suggesting a three-year extension. In order to extend a player, Celtics would need the cap space, which we will already use to sign Hayward if he's not a S&T. With cap space gone, Cs can't extend George.

That's different from simply signing Hayward into cap space then trading for George, no problem. The extension part is where it gets confusing for me.

Smitty, where you at?

Also, why would PG even agree to this? Wouldn't he able to maximize his profits if he waited for his current contract to expire instead then sign a 4-year contract next offseason?

you don't need cap space to extend him. We didn't have cap space when we traded and extended KG. We are trading for his bird rights.

[Homerclease]

We still need to make moves to open up space for Hayward though. My head is spinning right now where is Smitty at

You do not make moves prior to signing anyone. Agree to sign the player then spin off the parts as necessary. Only idiots trade assets, by that I mean good players on good contracts prior to having a deal. Think the Kings last year.

So they would have to agree to a deal in principle then send out enough money in the Paul George deal to fit Hayward under the cap. Craziness

[GregB]

I like Kaufman as a media personality compared to 95% of them around here, but don't trust him as a reporter. I also don't see George committing to a contract extension right away. I think if we get him, which I still think is a very realistic scenario, it's as a cheaper rental w/the hope of changing his mind. At best maybe he expresses some openess/happiness to Ainge about coming here rather than continuing threats of LA and maybe it gives Ainge a bit more confidence to pull the trigger but doesn't it cost him a significant amount of money to do an extension now compared to July 1st, 2018?

He broke a lot of info on the Philly trade that sounded like it was coming directly from someone in Ainges inner circle.

[chakdaddy]

Were going to end up getting him but not until after free agency. Book it. We won't have to give up Brown Taytum or Brooklyn 18. Maybe the LAL/sac pick at worst.

Disagree, if PG is coming with a 3 year extension, he's much more valuable and I can't see it getting done without them getting Tatum or Jaylen back in return along with that LAL/SAC pick.

I'll eat my hat if we give up Taytum or Jaylen Brown for George.


Write this down.

the offer will be

Avery Bradley Jae Crowder Demitruis Jackson Lal/Sac pick Memphis pick clipper pick. That gets it done and allows us to continue on this compete now and later patb

That's what im saying...blows Lakers low-ball offers out of the water. Lal/sac pick only with extension though.

[pasfru]

Not if you sign Hayward first. Order is important. That's why the deal probably wasn't done last night.

Kaufman is suggesting a three-year extension. In order to extend a player, Celtics would need the cap space, which we will already use to sign Hayward if he's not a S&T. With cap space gone, Cs can't extend George.

That's different from simply signing Hayward into cap space then trading for George, no problem. The extension part is where it gets confusing for me.

Smitty, where you at?

Also, why would PG even agree to this? Wouldn't he able to maximize his profits if he waited for his current contract to expire instead then sign a 4-year contract next offseason?

you don't need cap space to extend him. We didn't have cap space when we traded and extended KG. We are trading for his bird rights.

Non-designated extensions can only be up to 120% of the player's previous year salary.

Unless PG wants to sign an extension for $7-8M less than the max, we're gonna need a bit of cap space. Alternatively, the Pacers can sign the extension for us before trading him.

[Green_teamer]

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[Celts17Pride]

We still need to make moves to open up space for Hayward though. My head is spinning right now where is Smitty at

Wouldn't be surprised if the Paul George trade end up being a 3 way deal so the Celtics can keep more players.

[sully00]

So it means Hayward is a S&T acquisition? 'Cos we need the cap space to sign PG to an extension.

Not if you sign Hayward first. Order is important. That's why the deal probably wasn't done last night.

Kaufman is suggesting a three-year extension. In order to extend a player, Celtics would need the cap space, which we will already use to sign Hayward if he's not a S&T. With cap space gone, Cs can't extend George.

That's different from simply signing Hayward into cap space then trading for George, no problem. The extension part is where it gets confusing for me.

Smitty, where you at?

Also, why would PG even agree to this? Wouldn't he able to maximize his profits if he waited for his current contract to expire instead then sign a 4-year contract next offseason?

First Boston would not be extending George IND would, second he is a Bird FA so no cap space is not necessary. There are rules around extend and trade deals that limit raises and length that are unattractive but would in this case give George a significant raise for '17-'18. I believe Boston would be hard capped if they consummate an extend and trade.

[Froob]

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Hm...I'd like to hang onto that. If we get George we really help that Lakers pick while leaving ourselves a chance to get two top 5 picks. I want those picks to offer for Davis. I'd offer Zizic in a George offer if there's an extension.

[ConstableGeneva]

Not if you sign Hayward first. Order is important. That's why the deal probably wasn't done last night.

Kaufman is suggesting a three-year extension. In order to extend a player, Celtics would need the cap space, which we will already use to sign Hayward if he's not a S&T. With cap space gone, Cs can't extend George.

That's different from simply signing Hayward into cap space then trading for George, no problem. The extension part is where it gets confusing for me.

Smitty, where you at?

Also, why would PG even agree to this? Wouldn't he able to maximize his profits if he waited for his current contract to expire instead then sign a 4-year contract next offseason?

you don't need cap space to extend him. We didn't have cap space when we traded and extended KG. We are trading for his bird rights.

Okay. Finally. Thanks. So it's different from renegotiate-and-extend? Like what Rockets did with Harden?

[pasfru]

Kaufman is suggesting a three-year extension. In order to extend a player, Celtics would need the cap space, which we will already use to sign Hayward if he's not a S&T. With cap space gone, Cs can't extend George.

That's different from simply signing Hayward into cap space then trading for George, no problem. The extension part is where it gets confusing for me.

Smitty, where you at?

Also, why would PG even agree to this? Wouldn't he able to maximize his profits if he waited for his current contract to expire instead then sign a 4-year contract next offseason?

you don't need cap space to extend him. We didn't have cap space when we traded and extended KG. We are trading for his bird rights.

Okay. Finally. Thanks. So it's different from renegotiate-and-extend? Like what Rockets did with Harden?

Nope, the KG extension's an apples to oranges comparison.

You still need to renegotiate, but if it's part of a trade deal, the Pacers can do that bit for us.

[brackdan70]

wow...if a 2+1 extension is in the works, I am willing to shell out a lot for this guy. Tatum or Brown + Crowder or Bradley + Laker pick and/or other lesser picks. cuts into cap space, but still possible to sign and trade Hayward if he wants to be here.

thats ideal, but if that extension is on the table i am fine letting the hayward ship sale also.

[Celts17Pride]

Bottomline: Ainge is planning a lot of moves before next season.

[Dogen]

Were going to end up getting him but not until after free agency. Book it. We won't have to give up Brown Taytum or Brooklyn 18. Maybe the LAL/sac pick at worst.

Disagree, if PG is coming with a 3 year extension, he's much more valuable and I can't see it getting done without them getting Tatum or Jaylen back in return along with that LAL/SAC pick.

I'll eat my hat if we give up Taytum or Jaylen Brown for George.


Write this down.

the offer will be

Avery Bradley Jae Crowder Demitruis Jackson Lal/Sac pick Memphis pick clipper pick. That gets it done and allows us to continue on this compete now and later patb

Well I hope you're right. Quality starters and good picks for Indiana, and Boston (with both Hayward and PG) improves as a current contender without giving up the young talent (Brown/Tatum) and the BRK 18.

[ConstableGeneva]

Non-designated extensions can only be up to 120% of the player's previous year salary.

Unless PG wants to sign an extension for $7-8M less than the max, we're gonna need a bit of cap space. Alternatively, the Pacers can sign the extension for us before trading him.

First Boston would not be extending George IND would, second he is a Bird FA so no cap space is not necessary. There are rules around extend and trade deals that limit raises and length that are unattractive but would in this case give George a significant raise for '17-'18. I believe Boston would be hard capped if they consummate an extend and trade.

Thanks for the clarification!

[Gant]

If bringing in George convinces Hayward to sign, the Indiana trade has to happen.

My sense is that it is the other way I need help understanding that marriage. If I follow correctly George is willing to extend if Boston can sign Hayward. I have heard this thing where Hayward and George want to play together. Are their wives friends what the hell? What is the fit they almost seem to be the same player, not in a bad way but if your George wouldn't you want a teammate that was going to I don't know rebound and play defense?

I look at Boston through a veteran star's eyes and I see Thomas and Horford, guys I want to play with but with some weaknesses, none of which are solved by Hayward and George. Not against it completely, just saying if I have Thomas/George/Horford and the spare parts Boston currently has don't I want DeAndre Jordan at that point?

Horford doesn't want to play C, and George doesn't want to play PF how does getting Gordan Hayward help this dynamic?

I will know put myself in Ainge's head for a minute. The reason that Brown and now Tatum are off limits is that they are the second wave of his plan. Along with Smart they will support the veteran cast for a 2 or 3 year window until they are ready for prime time. So timing is important here, and the gambling is already done. LAL '18 and BRK '18 are available not Brown and Tatum. I think the possibility of having two top 5 picks is what IND wants to sell its season ticket holders with the idea of a quick rebuild.

If I am George, the Laker thing has always been out of left field I think it creates the leverage to get the deal done on his terms. I don't think an extension is likely but maybe. Financially it would seem the best option for George is to agree to pick up his option for '18-'19. Then he can sign a Bird rights extension in Boston off of that. I am actually pretty good with two years for that I will give up LAL '18 and BRK '18 and whatever off the roster it takes to get it done, no Brown, no Tatum.

You have identified some stumbling blocks. Brad and his positionless team might calm everyone's unease about positions.

Big men skills are very much still lacking on this roster. Zizic will be on the team, but he's a rookie and that can't be too much of a selling point to these stars probably.

The whole thing makes sense to do though, and leaves the team only 1 big-man step away, with the assets to get one.

IT and Rozier
Brown and Smart?
Hayward
George and Tatum
Horford and Zizic

That's a core that can obliterate teams.