Al Horford Starting at Center Instead of Aron Baynes

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

Horford was always going to start at C with Hayward here and Bradley gone (with Brown showing serious promise).

It'll be a 5 out offense with 3 point shooters at every position (unless Marcus starts at SG which might happen, but unlikely).
With Brown/Morris/Hayward (and Smart ) you have 3 guys that can switch really nicely. They can all run PnR with Horford and Kyrie too.

Brown is just as much a question mark from 3 as Smart. And I wouldn't trust him to run PNR either.

Im one of the first guys to pump the breaks on Jaylen here but I'm not questioning his 3 ball like Marcus's. Smart had to change a hitch coming out of college. Brown didn't. If anything with 3 years in already for Marcus, heading into his 4th, people should be much more worried about his 3% than anything Jaylen could worry us about in his softmore pro season. Marcus is on the proverbial clock regarding his league wide market value. Even if the Celtics value him higher than most other teams due to his intangibles and leadership, hustle,etc. they still wouldn't pony up that much for a guy who can't shoot over 30% from 3.

[cloverleaf]

Horford was always going to start at C with Hayward here and Bradley gone (with Brown showing serious promise).

It'll be a 5 out offense with 3 point shooters at every position (unless Marcus starts at SG which might happen, but unlikely).
With Brown/Morris/Hayward (and Smart ) you have 3 guys that can switch really nicely. They can all run PnR with Horford and Kyrie too.

Brown is just as much a question mark from 3 as Smart. And I wouldn't trust him to run PNR either.

Im one of the first guys to pump the breaks on Jaylen here but I'm not questioning his 3 ball like Marcus's. Smart had to change a hitch coming out of college. Brown didn't. If anything with 3 years in already for Marcus, heading into his 4th, people should be much more worried about his 3% than anything Jaylen could worry us about in his softmore pro season. Marcus is on the proverbial clock regarding his league wide market value. Even if the Celtics value him higher than most other teams due to his intangibles and leadership, hustle,etc. they still wouldn't pony up that much for a guy who can't shoot over 30% from 3.

Brown shot .341 from 3 as a rookie--that's way better than Smart has shot in 3 years. Perhaps because Jaylen was more judicious than to be a volume shooter in what was his first year hitting it at a good %.

Smart is more skilled in other ways, and I hope they both improve this season.

[Parliament10]

Brown is just as much a question mark from 3 as Smart. And I wouldn't trust him to run PNR either.

Im one of the first guys to pump the breaks on Jaylen here but I'm not questioning his 3 ball like Marcus's. Smart had to change a hitch coming out of college. Brown didn't. If anything with 3 years in already for Marcus, heading into his 4th, people should be much more worried about his 3% than anything Jaylen could worry us about in his softmore pro season. Marcus is on the proverbial clock regarding his league wide market value. Even if the Celtics value him higher than most other teams due to his intangibles and leadership, hustle,etc. they still wouldn't pony up that much for a guy who can't shoot over 30% from 3.

Brown shot .341 from 3 as a rookie--that's way better than Smart has shot in 3 years. Perhaps because Jaylen was more judicious than to be a volume shooter in what was his first year hitting it at a good %.

Smart is more skilled in other ways, and I hope they both improve this season.

Very True.
Smart, has a ton of intangibles. And is a Cobra on Defense. He's best Anchoring the 2nd Unit, and as a 6th-Man, at this point.
Brown, on the other hand, has a chance to make a sustained impact in the Starting Unit.

[SMTBSI]

Brown shot .341 from 3 as a rookie--that's way better than Smart has shot in 3 years.

Not convinced that's actually true. Smart's rookie year wasn't actually much worse from 3 than Jaylen's.

Rookie Smart:

91 of 272 for .335 with 4 recorded heaves
91 of 268 for .340 without the heaves
.570 3PAr
5.4 3PA per36
15.1 USG%

Rookie Jaylen:

46 for 135 for .341 with no recorded heaves
.319 3PAr
3.6 3PA per36
18.1 USG%

Not implying theyll be comparable as scorers - Jaylen had an overall much higher TS% on meaningfully higher usage - I'm just not convinced Jaylen's rookie year performance from 3 is all that obviously superior to Marcus'. At least not enough to be positive they'll follow different trajectories. (To be clear, I think they will.)

[robbie84]

Brown shot .341 from 3 as a rookie--that's way better than Smart has shot in 3 years.

Not convinced that's actually true. Smart's rookie year wasn't actually much worse from 3 than Jaylen's.

Rookie Smart:

91 of 272 for .335 with 4 recorded heaves
91 of 268 for .340 without the heaves
.570 3PAr
5.4 3PA per36
15.1 USG%

Rookie Jaylen:

46 for 135 for .341 with no recorded heaves
.319 3PAr
3.6 3PA per36
18.1 USG%

Not implying theyll be comparable as scorers - Jaylen had an overall much higher TS% on meaningfully higher usage - I'm just not convinced Jaylen's rookie year performance from 3 is all that obviously superior to Marcus'. At least not enough to be positive they'll follow different trajectories. (To be clear, I think they will.)

I feel you, but it's not just about hitting the 3, it's about being a 3 point threat that can put the ball on the floor and get to the rim (draw in help defender) and kick out to the other shooters. Jaylen's ability to get to the rim and finish/get to the line or find shooter is more significant than Smarts.

I think Jaylen at least gets the opportunity to keep the ball rolling on from last year.
The other side of the coin is that Brad might want Jaylen and Tatum giving us a scoring punch off the bench because Hayward/Kyrie/Horford with Smart being an All NBA first team defender out there is enough scoring already.

I think a lot rests on 2 things in training camp/preseason:
1) Marcus Smart's shooting
2) Jaylen's defense/shooting

[canman1971]

Huh, I thought this thread was about Horford and Baynes starting at the 5.

[SMTBSI]

Brown shot .341 from 3 as a rookie--that's way better than Smart has shot in 3 years.

Not convinced that's actually true. Smart's rookie year wasn't actually much worse from 3 than Jaylen's.

Rookie Smart:

91 of 272 for .335 with 4 recorded heaves
91 of 268 for .340 without the heaves
.570 3PAr
5.4 3PA per36
15.1 USG%

Rookie Jaylen:

46 for 135 for .341 with no recorded heaves
.319 3PAr
3.6 3PA per36
18.1 USG%

Not implying theyll be comparable as scorers - Jaylen had an overall much higher TS% on meaningfully higher usage - I'm just not convinced Jaylen's rookie year performance from 3 is all that obviously superior to Marcus'. At least not enough to be positive they'll follow different trajectories. (To be clear, I think they will.)

I feel you, but it's not just about hitting the 3, it's about being a 3 point threat that can put the ball on the floor and get to the rim (draw in help defender) and kick out to the other shooters. Jaylen's ability to get to the rim and finish/get to the line or find shooter is more significant than Smarts.

Oh, I agree. I don't think their rookie seasons were comparable offensively, and have much higher hopes for Jaylen on that end of the court. (Smart with the much higher 3PAr and lower usage reveals a very different role on offense, so the raw %ages aren't necessarily translatable or saying much about their overall toolkits.)

I guess I was just trying to make the point that there's no guarantee for Jaylen. If Smart can drop .080 from rookie to sophomore, there's no guarantee Jaylen's due for a boost. There's no guarantee he's not either... Just, there's no guarantee.

[Slartibartfast]

Horford was always going to start at C with Hayward here and Bradley gone (with Brown showing serious promise).

It'll be a 5 out offense with 3 point shooters at every position (unless Marcus starts at SG which might happen, but unlikely).
With Brown/Morris/Hayward (and Smart ) you have 3 guys that can switch really nicely. They can all run PnR with Horford and Kyrie too.

Brown is just as much a question mark from 3 as Smart. And I wouldn't trust him to run PNR either.

Hayward/Irving/Horford gives the starting unit plenty of PnR prowess to make the other two starters spot up threats, no?


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I don't think Brown is better than Smart as as spot-up threat. And if Morris gets the nod at the 4, I want another passer out there - Irving, Hayward and Morris all volume shooters. Smart likes to shoot, but he's been pretty good about being the ball-mover and glue guy when playing with offensive talent.