Grade the Trade, KP + 2 1st for Smart & a 2nd plus filler – (Reminisce Thread)

[Triple7]

A+ for me hands down. Porzingis for our 3rd option, and for DWhite to get more playing time and responsibilty? No question really.

[Brett43]

I'll give this a A. I hate to lose Marcus and Grant, but these Porzingis stats cannot be denied:

KRISTAPS PORZINGIS
2022-2023 Stats

23.2 ppg
8.4 rebounds
38.5% from 3
85.1% from FT
27 years old

I don't think Gallinari is too much of a loss. He is 34, and only scored 12 ppg his last season with Atlanta.

[Curmudgeon]

D. Celtics got taller, but not better. It would have been an F without the picks.
Remember that Porzingis is just a rental because there's no way they can pay Brown the max and also keep the Zinger.

[hugepatsfan]

I felt Smart was simultaneously the best of our guard trio but also the one who made the most on court sense to move.

Marcus Smart is an on ball PG. He is not an off ball cutter and he is not a floor spacer. He's a very good passer. He plays pretty fast a lot of the time and isn't afraid of high difficulty passes, so he has some turnovers that look real ugly, but overall he's a low turnover guy. Just the ones he does make have a tendency to really stand out lol. The thing about on ball guard is that they need to be, you know... on the ball. And elite defenses can make things tough on you if the guy holding the ball isn't a threat to score. Smart isn't a zero as a scorer, but he's not good enough there that elite defenses haven't been able to make things tough on us that way. MIA, GSW and MIL have given us fits in the playoffs the last few years. (Now important to keep in context though... we're talking championship caliber defenses in the deep playoffs. So let's not make it out to be some super harsh criticism like Smart or us as a team suck.)

White is not the same on ball player as Smart facilitating and making tougher passes. But I think he's a better on ball scorer once he does have it. He's a better shooter and cutter too. Those are skills that play up when someone else has the ball, e.g. Tatum or Brown. It's just a smoother fit. And then defensively, he isn't as switchable but he guards other guards as well as Smart. Still great on that end. Smart is a better player IMO, but White checks boxes that compliment this roster's core players better IMO. White is the best guard we have to start with the J's IMO.

Then off the bench, again, Brogdon just checks different boxes for this team. He's a third perimeter scorer. Not a huge defensive liability, despite what people here say. Not as good as Smart obviously but not a total turnstile either. His shooting is a huge plus when he ends up off the ball. He's just a better complimentary piece.

Good on Brad for trading Smart and extracting extra value to do so IMO. Hopefully Brogdon can stay healthy because if so, we have an ideal start to a playoff rotation:

White / Brogdon
Brown
Tatum
Porzingis
RWilliams / Horford

Load managed who you need to and pray we get those 7 read for the playoffs. Turn some combo of Grant S&T, Pritchard, Hauser, draft picks into a 3&D wing player and we're cooking for real. Ideal complimentary skill sets and player groupings all over that rotation if we get that last piece.

[hugepatsfan]

D. Celtics got taller, but not better. It would have been an F without the picks.
Remember that Porzingis is just a rental because there's no way they can pay Brown the max and also keep the Zinger.

They can do so without ever hitting the 2nd apron.

[Curmudgeon]

D. Celtics got taller, but not better. It would have been an F without the picks.
Remember that Porzingis is just a rental because there's no way they can pay Brown the max and also keep the Zinger.

They can do so without ever hitting the 2nd apron.

Not if they want to have any kind of bench. Don't forget to factor in Tatum's max extension as well. He's earned one, Brown hasn't.

[hugepatsfan]

D. Celtics got taller, but not better. It would have been an F without the picks.
Remember that Porzingis is just a rental because there's no way they can pay Brown the max and also keep the Zinger.

They can do so without ever hitting the 2nd apron.

Not if they want to have any kind of bench. Don't forget to factor in Tatum's max extension as well. He's earned one, Brown hasn't.

I meant Tatum's extension year too. That one's tougher to predict though because Brogdon/White/Horford will all be off the books. So it's really such a blank slate and depends on whether Stevens extends those guys, trades them, any exception signings, etc.

The math for this year is all over the forum. We have a top 7 right now of Tatum/Brown/Porzingis/White/RWilliams/Horford/Brogdon. By all calculations, we should be able to use the tax payers MLE and stay under the 2nd apron if we let GWilliams go, with possibility of also maybe needing to move Pritchard for a little extra room.

For next year, if we give max extensions to Brown and Porzingis when the new league year starts next week, we'll have $191.1M committed to 8 players for 24-25 season - the same top 7 as above plus Hauser. Add in a presumed multi year deal for Jordan Walsh, our 1st rounder next year and GSW's first rounder next year and minimum/exception signings to fill out the roster. We're probably looking at being over the projected $200.75M 2nd apron. But nothing that couldn't be solved by moving Brogdon's expiring deal for someone making less money.

So yeah, if you want to stay under the 2nd apron while max extending Brown and Porzingis you can probably avoid the 2nd apron each year with the only tradeoff being that you have to move Brogdon as an expiring contract next year for someone making less money. But still plenty of room to take someone back on a decent salary so it's not like you're dumping him. Still getting together a salary that should be able to work for a decent bench player.

[Curmudgeon]

A White/Brown starting backcourt will struggle to get the ball over halfcourt. White will be double teamed on every possession.

[Homerclease]

After pining for every player from Europe for a decade, we finally get Porzingis and Curm hates it. Make it make sense.

Talent wins in this league. Celtics are more talented with Porzingis than with Smart. B+ trade

[Ben-N1ce]

A White/Brown starting backcourt will struggle to get the ball over halfcourt. White will be double teamed on every possession.

So White won player of the week and had 3 20/10 games in a row as starter last year not getting it past half court? Impressive.

[Curmudgeon]

After pining for every player from Europe for a decade, we finally get Porzingis and Curm hates it. Make it make sense.

Talent wins in this league. Celtics are more talented with Porzingis than with Smart. B+ trade

They traded the wrong player for Porzingis.

[hugepatsfan]

A White/Brown starting backcourt will struggle to get the ball over halfcourt. White will be double teamed on every possession.

White/Brown/Tatum/GWilliams/Horford was our third most used lineup last year and had a +14.8 rating.

That same group with Rob replacing Grant was our #8 lineup and had an insanely good +46.9 rating (lol)

White/Hauser/Tatum/Horford/Rob was #11 most used and had a crazy good +29.3 rating.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023/lineups/

We had so much inconsistency in the front court last year with injuries and load management that we were weighted pretty heavy towards the most used lineup of Smart/White starting group. But every White/2 wings/2bigs lineup posted terrific numbers in the time we did go to it.

Even going back to the year before, White/Brown/Tatum/Grant/Horford was our 5th most used lineup with +16.1 rating.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2022/lineups/

Teams will scout and adjust, especially in the playoffs, but any lineup with White as a PG and no other guard seems to excel. Can't find a bad combo of it in his 2 years here by lineup data.

[Homerclease]

After pining for every player from Europe for a decade, we finally get Porzingis and Curm hates it. Make it make sense.

Talent wins in this league. Celtics are more talented with Porzingis than with Smart. B+ trade

They traded the wrong player for Porzingis.

I would’ve traded Brogdon instead as well but that didn’t work out. If it comes down to trading Smart to get Porzingis or keeping Smart and passing up KP then well….it’s an easy decision

[Curmudgeon]

I would have offered Brown and filler (Gallo, Muscala, etc.) for Porzingis and Avdija. Brown is the one I don't trust at the end of close playoff games, not Smart.

[sarcasma]

Just getting SMART off the team is an "A" by itself....getting Zinger and two first rounders is utterly ridiculous.
SMART wont be the alpha now, he wont be dominating the ball. He wont be taking bad shots. Tatum and Brown deferred to him SO much, now that wont happen. Bostons starting 5's length is ridiculous.

[Curmudgeon]

Just getting SMART off the team is an "A" by itself....getting Zinger and two first rounders is utterly ridiculous.
SMART wont be the alpha now, he wont be dominating the ball. He wont be taking bad shots. Tatum and Brown deferred to him SO much, now that wont happen. Bostons starting 5's length is ridiculous.

That's the party line.

[Triple7]

A White/Brown starting backcourt will struggle to get the ball over halfcourt. White will be double teamed on every possession.

Lol. Get over it already. Smart is gone gone!

[Triple7]

I would have offered Brown and filler (Gallo, Muscala, etc.) for Porzingis and Avdija. Brown is the one I don't trust at the end of close playoff games, not Smart.

Brown is worth more than Porzingis plus filler. Smart isn’t.

[Triple7]

Just getting SMART off the team is an "A" by itself....getting Zinger and two first rounders is utterly ridiculous.
SMART wont be the alpha now, he wont be dominating the ball. He wont be taking bad shots. Tatum and Brown deferred to him SO much, now that wont happen. Bostons starting 5's length is ridiculous.

It’s not so much that they defer to Smart, it’s mostly teams double the Jays and leave smart wide open, and the Jays have no choice but to pass it right back. Problem is, smart is cocky enough to take the shot all the time. At least draymond green would look for other options than take the shot himself.

[Triple7]

I’m just happy they aren’t running it back like many of the fools on this board wanted. I hope they aren’t done, frankly. Good move getting rid of Smart, one of the most overrated players in Celtics history.

A+

I agree with this 100. Running it back with minor tweaks is just laughable. We ain’t winning it all with this core of the Jays and Smart. We were lucky we beat the sixers, and the heat made us look like scared chumps. No leadership and toughness at all, even with Smart “mr heart and soul” playing. At least this move the Jays would be the leaders by default. No choice for them but to step up to that role. We are not going to win anything with them deferring leadership to role players. It should be them. It should be Tatum. If Tatum really wants to be great, then he needs to step up. All time greats have always been the leaders on their team. or else he would just be another McGrady or a carmelo.