Jayson Tatum Thread

Tatum - 6 wins, 1 title
Lebron - 2 wins, 0 titles

They're the only two players in NBA history to average 20/7/7 in their Finals career (minimum 10 games).

cloverleaf · Post #69 » by **cloverleaf** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 1:02 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:Finals appearances before age 27:

Tatum - 6 wins, 1 title
Lebron - 2 wins, 0 titles

They're the only two players in NBA history to average 20/7/7 in their Finals career (minimum 10 games).

No disrespect to Jayson, or the "other" Jay, for that matter, but it drives me crazy when people compare their early-years team and playoffs results with other high draft-pick stars, who almost always join one of the very worst teams in the league.

Counter to the usual, thanks to Trader Danny, the Jays joined high-performing, star-studded teams.

ConstableGeneva · Post #70 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 1:10 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Finals appearances before age 27:

Tatum - 6 wins, 1 title
Lebron - 2 wins, 0 titles

They're the only two players in NBA history to average 20/7/7 in their Finals career (minimum 10 games).

No disrespect to Jayson, or the "other" Jay, for that matter, but it drives me crazy when people compare their early-years team and playoffs results with other high draft-pick stars, who almost always join one of the very worst teams in the league.

Counter to the usual, thanks to Trader Danny, the Jays joined high-performing, star-studded teams.

In this case (comparing Finals stats), JT wasn't a rookie or sophomore when he made the Finals. He wasn't some rotation player or supporting cast to another star. Since two years prior to making the Finals, they were alraedy building around him. He led the team to both Finals (though JB performed better in his role in both appearances). He was the #1 option, like Lebron was.

31to6 · Post #71 » by **31to6** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 1:18 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Finals appearances before age 27:

Tatum - 6 wins, 1 title
Lebron - 2 wins, 0 titles

They're the only two players in NBA history to average 20/7/7 in their Finals career (minimum 10 games).

No disrespect to Jayson, or the "other" Jay, for that matter, but it drives me crazy when people compare their early-years team and playoffs results with other high draft-pick stars, who almost always join one of the very worst teams in the league.

Counter to the usual, thanks to Trader Danny, the Jays joined high-performing, star-studded teams.

In this case (comparing Finals stats), JT wasn't a rookie or sophomore when he made the Finals. He wasn't some rotation player or supporting cast to another star. Since two years prior to making the Finals, they were alraedy building around him. He led the team to both Finals (though JB performed better in his role in both appearances). He was the #1 option, like Lebron was.

I’m going to make a different — and perhaps maudlin — counter argument to cloverleaf’s point, which I certainly understand:

After the deaths of Bias and Lewis, I’ll take any “break” that comes this franchise’s way. So if our current young stars compare favorably to some of the greatest of all time, so be it, I’m not stopping anyone with any “well actuallys”!

JT is off to a historic start to his career. That’s what Celtics do!

cloverleaf · Post #72 » by **cloverleaf** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 1:59 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Finals appearances before age 27:

Tatum - 6 wins, 1 title
Lebron - 2 wins, 0 titles

They're the only two players in NBA history to average 20/7/7 in their Finals career (minimum 10 games).

No disrespect to Jayson, or the "other" Jay, for that matter, but it drives me crazy when people compare their early-years team and playoffs results with other high draft-pick stars, who almost always join one of the very worst teams in the league.

Counter to the usual, thanks to Trader Danny, the Jays joined high-performing, star-studded teams.

In this case (comparing Finals stats), JT wasn't a rookie or sophomore when he made the Finals. He wasn't some rotation player or supporting cast to another star. Since two years prior to making the Finals, they were alraedy building around him. He led the team to both Finals (though JB performed better in his role in both appearances). He was the #1 option, like Lebron was.

Again, this isn't anything against Jayson, but LeBron joined a 35-win team directly out of high school and in his second year had them losing only to a Duncan-led, stacked Spurs team. When he joined Miami he led a first round-exit team to the finals, losing only to a Dirk-led team before winning it all the next two seasons.

JT was better in his second finals appearance, for sure, but he wasn't even the best player on the team in either year. He's a very fine player, but no LeBron.

cloverleaf · Post #73 » by **cloverleaf** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 2:12 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:

Read on Twitter

Just watched this: Doesn't actually sound like he's a grown man.

Fencer reregistered · Post #74 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 3:04 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:

Read on Twitter

Just watched this: Doesn't actually sound like he's a grown man.

That's the Rob Gronkowski plan. But without all the goofy brothers.

Post #75 » by **canman1971** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 3:52 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:

Read on Twitter

Just watched this: Doesn't actually sound like he's a grown man.

It's the opposite. Sounds to me like he's smart unlike many NBA players from the past.

cloverleaf · Post #76 » by **cloverleaf** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 5:05 pm

canman1971 wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:

Read on Twitter

Just watched this: Doesn't actually sound like he's a grown man.

It's the opposite. Sounds to me like he's smart unlike many NBA players from the past.

His mom is tracking all his spending, laying down the law, and assuring him that she'll bail him out of any bad decisions? He's just interested in spending his full allowance on material crap. Sounds like she's got a kind of lost middle schooler.

He describes her as his best friend, and she is raising his son probably more than mom or dad. Not really any of our business other than they share it with the media. He's packing away the dough, presumably likes his life as it is, and is delivering for C"s fans around the world. So fine by me. But for a mother to describe her role in her son's life like that and then claim that he's a grown man is IMO a clear contradiction. (Psychologically, demanding and overinvolved parents tend to lead to strangely passive children, which could well explain Tatum's strange passivity at times while managing to be so elite at his sport.)

Post #77 » by **canman1971** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 6:33 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
canman1971 wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Just watched this: Doesn't actually sound like he's a grown man.

It's the opposite. Sounds to me like he's smart unlike many NBA players from the past.

His mom is tracking all his spending, laying down the law, and assuring him that she'll bail him out of any bad decisions? He's just interested in spending his full allowance on material crap. Sounds like she's got a kind of lost middle schooler.

He describes her as his best friend, and she is raising his son probably more than mom or dad. Not really any of our business other than they share it with the media. He's packing away the dough, presumably likes his life as it is, and is delivering for C"s fans around the world. So fine by me. But for a mother to describe her role in her son's life like that and then claim that he's a grown man is IMO a clear contradiction. (Psychologically, demanding and overinvolved parents tend to lead to strangely passive children, which could well explain Tatum's strange passivity at times while managing to be so elite at his sport.)

Well, she is an attorney and he is still quite young at least to me, haha. It think a lot of it was somewhat tongue and cheek.

ConstableGeneva · Post #78 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 6:45 pm

All that psychoanalysis leaving out the fact that JT's mom is also his business manager.

ConstableGeneva · Post #79 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 7:12 pm

Signed his extension. Probably headed now to Vegas for Team USA prep.

Read on Twitter

Smart2Nesmith43 · Post #80 » by **Smart2Nesmith43** » Sat Jul 6, 2024 7:15 pm

cloverleaf wrote:Again, this isn't anything against Jayson, but LeBron joined a 35-win team directly out of high school and in his second year had them losing only to a Duncan-led, stacked Spurs team. When he joined Miami he led a first round-exit team to the finals, losing only to a Dirk-led team before winning it all the next two seasons.

The Cavs went 42-40 and missed the playoffs in LeBron James' second season. He didn't make the finals until his fourth year where he proceeded to get swept off the floor (fun fact Jayson Tatum has never been swept in his career). Get your facts straight.

When James went to Miami he joined a playoff team that also added prime Chris Bosh that summer. I like how you glossed over that tiny detail. LeBron's performance in 2011 Finals was even worse than in 2007 arguably. I don't really understand how saying Tatum has been better than LeBron during their first two Finals appearances is a controversial statement. It certainly isn't if you look at both numbers and end results.

cloverleaf wrote:JT was better in his second finals appearance, for sure, but he wasn't even the best player on the team in either year. He's a very fine player, but no LeBron.

Tatum is quite clearly the best player on the Celtics, has been for years and was during both finals runs. Like Curry, Duncan and anybody else that has led their team to an NBA championship he had teammates good enough to be the MVP in any given series. Having Parker, Iguodala or Brown win finals MVP doesn't change who the best players on those teams were (just like James would still have been the best player on the Heat if they had won the 2011 Finals and Wade or Bosh had won MVP).