No Holiday Magic For Us! Loss vs ORL 12/23

[Shak_Celts]

One more one more thing, why do we only give guys one chance to prove themselves? They have bad moments and never see the light again. How do you have 2 to 3 good games, then have a meh five minutes and never play again (Peterson)? We almost gave up on Pritchard in the same scenario. At least we had somewhat of an excuse because we had Smart, White AND Brogs ahead of him, but this season other guys can get minutes and we’re not doing it! Who is behind the Jays? No one, because Sam has missed quite a few. Even with Sam, there should be consistent enough minutes for other players. There is no way there are no minutes without Brissy and many times Sam! It’s time to force guys out there for longer stretches, WITH the good players! Rico should get a chance. Peterson didn’t do poorly with his chance, PLAY him until he’s terrible. Walsh can be forced a little more.

It feels like we tried harder to fill in with the others last season. This season, too many times we aren’t doing it.

I thought the good players needed more rest, I thought Joe would give other guys a real opportunity this season. Expecting people to do much with five minutes once in a blue moon is expecting too much (YOUNG/ROOKIES).

There is a reason why most championship teams bench were stacked with vets. Guys who have been through things, folk who don’t care about making their names. Because young people are rarely ready to contribute positively to winning. The ones who are rare are the stars+. After Hauser/Pritch and sometimes Al, we have not one guy you’d trust to play 20 minutes in a crucial game and not hurt us too much. We didn’t play them much last season, but you can’t say if push came to shove you wouldn’t trust BRISSY, Svi, Stevens and even Banton over what we’re dealing with now.

Who’s fault is it that we went young and won’t play them instead of going with vets? They may not be much, but they knew how to do their jobs and stay out of the way. Play the kids/rookies or find some vets you’re willing to take a chance on!

We aren’t losing a lot, but it really feels like the guys are a little more sluggish this season. I don’t even think it’s down to a lack of effort, it looks like they are tired! You can tell your body to do something but it doesn’t have to listen.

Joe doesn’t even like playing guys who have proved something, but he did somewhat last season. I don’t know why I was fooled into thinking he would force one of those young guys/rookies this season.

We literally have no one with one NBA season under their belt after the guys we played last season. I didn’t think of it that way, but that’s crazy. I mean after Korny and Queta. Wait, unless we’re counting someone who probably hasn’t played in 82 NBA games that weren’t garbage minutes, if that? Does Springer count? Oh boy.

[Shak_Celts]

Our defense has been carved and carved this season and no one is constantly posting what’s going on. Any other season our D would come up short and there would be post after post about weak links. I can’t believe those same people don’t know what’s going on or have the numbers to give us an idea. I see that the defense isn’t good at times, that’s been said, where is the WHY statistics? The offense has been offensing, I know we’re not bottom half in D, but I have been questioning the mehness of the D for months.

While other fans are yelling about "too many threes", defense is mostly what I point to regarding the difference between this season and last esp whenever we lose. Also provided possible explanations for the decline in numerous posts. Too lazy to repeat.

I hate losing too. So the "coasting" or "going through the motions" excuse can only go so far.

They have my trust. I think they've earned enough of it after last season. But also last season was last season. They themselves said they gotta earn everything again this season.

For this particular game, two things stood out -- defense isn't where it should be / we're unable to sustain it for whatever reason and we still have trouble against physicality plus we gotta find an answer whenever teams take away the three-ball (how Heat won in 2023 ECF).

Can you point me to where I can find the “why” you posted? I do remember something about KP not manning the middle and how he’s made it better being back, but he missed a lot of games last season too. Couldn’t be only that. Sorry I missed or accidentally overlooked your other posts explaining the problem.

[Fencer reregistered]

Our defense has been carved and carved this season and no one is constantly posting what’s going on. Any other season our D would come up short and there would be post after post about weak links. I can’t believe those same people don’t know what’s going on or have the numbers to give us an idea. I see that the defense isn’t good at times, that’s been said, where is the WHY statistics? The offense has been offensing, I know we’re not bottom half in D, but I have been questioning the mehness of the D for months.

While other fans are yelling about "too many threes", defense is mostly what I point to regarding the difference between this season and last esp whenever we lose. Also provided possible explanations for the decline in numerous posts. Too lazy to repeat.

I hate losing too. So the "coasting" or "going through the motions" excuse can only go so far.

They have my trust. I think they've earned enough of it after last season. But also last season was last season. They themselves said they gotta earn everything again this season.

For this particular game, two things stood out -- defense isn't where it should be / we're unable to sustain it for whatever reason and we still have trouble against physicality plus we gotta find an answer whenever teams take away the three-ball (how Heat won in 2023 ECF).

Can you point me to where I can find the “why” you posted? I do remember something about KP not manning the middle and how he’s made it better being back, but he missed a lot of games last season too. Couldn’t be only that. Sorry I missed or accidentally overlooked your other posts explaining the problem.

Why not just call up a list of his posts and look through them.

How many can there be?

[Fencer reregistered]

One more one more thing, why do we only give guys one chance to prove themselves? They have bad moments and never see the light again. How do you have 2 to 3 good games, then have a meh five minutes and never play again (Peterson)? We almost gave up on Pritchard in the same scenario. At least we had somewhat of an excuse because we had Smart, White AND Brogs ahead of him, but this season other guys can get minutes and we’re not doing it! Who is behind the Jays? No one, because Sam has missed quite a few. Even with Sam, there should be consistent enough minutes for other players. There is no way there are no minutes without Brissy and many times Sam! It’s time to force guys out there for longer stretches, WITH the good players! Rico should get a chance. Peterson didn’t do poorly with his chance, PLAY him until he’s terrible. Walsh can be forced a little more.

It feels like we tried harder to fill in with the others last season. This season, too many times we aren’t doing it.

I thought the good players needed more rest, I thought Joe would give other guys a real opportunity this season. Expecting people to do much with five minutes once in a blue moon is expecting too much (YOUNG/ROOKIES).

There is a reason why most championship teams bench were stacked with vets. Guys who have been through things, folk who don’t care about making their names. Because young people are rarely ready to contribute positively to winning. The ones who are rare are the stars+. After Hauser/Pritch and sometimes Al, we have not one guy you’d trust to play 20 minutes in a crucial game and not hurt us too much. We didn’t play them much last season, but you can’t say if push came to shove you wouldn’t trust BRISSY, Svi, Stevens and even Banton over what we’re dealing with now.

Who’s fault is it that we went young and won’t play them instead of going with vets? They may not be much, but they knew how to do their jobs and stay out of the way. Play the kids/rookies or find some vets you’re willing to take a chance on!

We aren’t losing a lot, but it really feels like the guys are a little more sluggish this season. I don’t even think it’s down to a lack of effort, it looks like they are tired! You can tell your body to do something but it doesn’t have to listen.

Joe doesn’t even like playing guys who have proved something, but he did somewhat last season. I don’t know why I was fooled into thinking he would force one of those young guys/rookies this season.

We literally have no one with one NBA season under their belt after the guys we played last season. I didn’t think of it that way, but that’s crazy. I mean after Korny and Queta. Wait, unless we’re counting someone who probably hasn’t played in 82 NBA games that weren’t garbage minutes, if that? Does Springer count? Oh boy.

Joe's first year the players begged him to use more double-big, and he was very slow to agree.

Now fans criticize him for how much double-big he uses.

Can't please everybody ...

[playa-hater]

One more thing

If we’re not worried about the regular season, why are we only playing a handful of guys every game? It seems like you would be playing the “others” a lot more, if that’s what we were doing.

I’m not worried, I just don’t like losing, remember me not crying about getting worse odds, eventually the 5th pick? I WANTED THAT WIN!


Play ball to win, even it’s our stay ready guys. They don’t get many chances to prove they are ready tho.

Good points..

Joe is doing an excellent job of keeping our deep bench Fresh for our playoff series.

Defense often requires energy. Probably the number one factor.

And Joe literally only plays eight players two of them who are up there in age.. Jrue and Al.

Also I missed the funeral, but when did Queta die??

And why did we FREAKIN spend the last two drafts on wing players not to play a single minute with Tatum out??

Hauser is out for a few games and then JT...who does joe play in their place?? A seven foot two center who often doesn't /can't even dunk the ball unless he is wide wide open.

[playa-hater]

One more one more thing, why do we only give guys one chance to prove themselves? They have bad moments and never see the light again. How do you have 2 to 3 good games, then have a meh five minutes and never play again (Peterson)? We almost gave up on Pritchard in the same scenario. At least we had somewhat of an excuse because we had Smart, White AND Brogs ahead of him, but this season other guys can get minutes and we’re not doing it! Who is behind the Jays? No one, because Sam has missed quite a few. Even with Sam, there should be consistent enough minutes for other players. There is no way there are no minutes without Brissy and many times Sam! It’s time to force guys out there for longer stretches, WITH the good players! Rico should get a chance. Peterson didn’t do poorly with his chance, PLAY him until he’s terrible. Walsh can be forced a little more.

It feels like we tried harder to fill in with the others last season. This season, too many times we aren’t doing it.

I thought the good players needed more rest, I thought Joe would give other guys a real opportunity this season. Expecting people to do much with five minutes once in a blue moon is expecting too much (YOUNG/ROOKIES).

There is a reason why most championship teams bench were stacked with vets. Guys who have been through things, folk who don’t care about making their names. Because young people are rarely ready to contribute positively to winning. The ones who are rare are the stars+. After Hauser/Pritch and sometimes Al, we have not one guy you’d trust to play 20 minutes in a crucial game and not hurt us too much. We didn’t play them much last season, but you can’t say if push came to shove you wouldn’t trust BRISSY, Svi, Stevens and even Banton over what we’re dealing with now.

Who’s fault is it that we went young and won’t play them instead of going with vets? They may not be much, but they knew how to do their jobs and stay out of the way. Play the kids/rookies or find some vets you’re willing to take a chance on!

We aren’t losing a lot, but it really feels like the guys are a little more sluggish this season. I don’t even think it’s down to a lack of effort, it looks like they are tired! You can tell your body to do something but it doesn’t have to listen.

Joe doesn’t even like playing guys who have proved something, but he did somewhat last season. I don’t know why I was fooled into thinking he would force one of those young guys/rookies this season.

We literally have no one with one NBA season under their belt after the guys we played last season. I didn’t think of it that way, but that’s crazy. I mean after Korny and Queta. Wait, unless we’re counting someone who probably hasn’t played in 82 NBA games that weren’t garbage minutes, if that? Does Springer count? Oh boy.

Another excellent post.

[ConstableGeneva]

Our defense has been carved and carved this season and no one is constantly posting what’s going on. Any other season our D would come up short and there would be post after post about weak links. I can’t believe those same people don’t know what’s going on or have the numbers to give us an idea. I see that the defense isn’t good at times, that’s been said, where is the WHY statistics? The offense has been offensing, I know we’re not bottom half in D, but I have been questioning the mehness of the D for months.

While other fans are yelling about "too many threes", defense is mostly what I point to regarding the difference between this season and last esp whenever we lose. Also provided possible explanations for the decline in numerous posts. Too lazy to repeat.

I hate losing too. So the "coasting" or "going through the motions" excuse can only go so far.

They have my trust. I think they've earned enough of it after last season. But also last season was last season. They themselves said they gotta earn everything again this season.

For this particular game, two things stood out -- defense isn't where it should be / we're unable to sustain it for whatever reason and we still have trouble against physicality plus we gotta find an answer whenever teams take away the three-ball (how Heat won in 2023 ECF).

Can you point me to where I can find the “why” you posted? I do remember something about KP not manning the middle and how he’s made it better being back, but he missed a lot of games last season too. Couldn’t be only that. Sorry I missed or accidentally overlooked your other posts explaining the problem.

Too lazy to look for the posts. And I don't really have the time to look up the stats again. Paint/rim defense has been better since KP came back. But I think the double big has hurt our 3-pt defense in some games. Also said we are significantly worse defensively with PP on the floor. And he's been playing more than last season. Jrue and White aren't all-defense level this season but more PP is more time on the floor the team has to adjust coverage instead of everyone just staying home or straight up switching. For a couple of losses, it was our transition defense lacking. In the Hawks loss, it was defensive rebounding. So there's no catch-all answer.

It definitely doesn't seem like it esp after losses, but Cs are 4th in defense since KP came back. So I guess there are worse teams than us on that end. Like I said, only three teams have been consistently good to great on that end for me -- OKC, ORL, HOU.

[Fierce1]

When the Cs beat the Bulls by 25, the double big lineup was effective and the Cs ended up with 60 points in the paint.

In this game, the Cs got 54 points in the paint, but only shot 25% from 3pt land.

The 2nd half defense and the poor 3pt shooting are the main culprits why the Cs lost this game.

[Shak_Celts]

While other fans are yelling about "too many threes", defense is mostly what I point to regarding the difference between this season and last esp whenever we lose. Also provided possible explanations for the decline in numerous posts. Too lazy to repeat.

I hate losing too. So the "coasting" or "going through the motions" excuse can only go so far.

They have my trust. I think they've earned enough of it after last season. But also last season was last season. They themselves said they gotta earn everything again this season.

For this particular game, two things stood out -- defense isn't where it should be / we're unable to sustain it for whatever reason and we still have trouble against physicality plus we gotta find an answer whenever teams take away the three-ball (how Heat won in 2023 ECF).

Can you point me to where I can find the “why” you posted? I do remember something about KP not manning the middle and how he’s made it better being back, but he missed a lot of games last season too. Couldn’t be only that. Sorry I missed or accidentally overlooked your other posts explaining the problem.

Too lazy to look for the posts. And I don't really have the time to look up the stats again. Paint/rim defense has been better since KP came back. But I think the double big has hurt our 3-pt defense in some games. Also said we are significantly worse defensively with PP on the floor. And he's been playing more than last season. Jrue and White aren't all-defense level this season but more PP is more time on the floor the team has to adjust coverage instead of everyone just staying home or straight up switching. For a couple of losses, it was our transition defense lacking. In the Hawks loss, it was defensive rebounding. So there's no catch-all answer.

It definitely doesn't seem like it esp after losses, but Cs are 4th in defense since KP came back. So I guess there are worse teams than us on that end. Like I said, only three teams have been consistently good to great on that end for me -- OKC, ORL, HOU.

Thank you kindly.

I do remember that about PP. I like him, so when he said people think he’s only good at one side, I choose to believe he can’t be that bad. I want to believe if it’s that bad now it can’t get worse in the playoffs. You said his offense is the offset it, IIRC. I don’t want to think about what could happen in the playoffs if his defense is already that bad. We can’t afford to keep him benched this season, in the playoffs, we’ll need that offense, I’m convinced.

I don’t remember what or when you mentioned that about Jrue and White, but I don’t doubt that you said it. I wonder what’s happening there?

I feel like all the guys look a little worn out. Short off-season and coming off winning the championship? I think they are tired. The numbers don’t say it, well the team numbers don’t, but they really do not have the pop they had last season IMO. I do hope it’s not because they are exhausted, because if they’re tired this early, imagine what they’ll be when the playoffs roll around.

Do you want us to pick someone else up? Do you think we already have enough? I do know for sure Sam has to find his way. JB must find his three ball. Everything else you said must right itself too.

I don’t think it will be harder to win it this season because we had an easy route last season, I believe in history, it’s always harder to win multiple in a row. Everybody and their mother are out for our blood, any team can go ham for one night, we are going to have a dog fight most nights for the rest of the season. Even though we’ll blow out some teams it won’t be because those teams aren’t giving their all. It’s a wild ride when your team has to get up for every game. Give Golden State credit for being one of the few, especially over the last decade or so.

[ConstableGeneva]

Can you point me to where I can find the “why” you posted? I do remember something about KP not manning the middle and how he’s made it better being back, but he missed a lot of games last season too. Couldn’t be only that. Sorry I missed or accidentally overlooked your other posts explaining the problem.

Too lazy to look for the posts. And I don't really have the time to look up the stats again. Paint/rim defense has been better since KP came back. But I think the double big has hurt our 3-pt defense in some games. Also said we are significantly worse defensively with PP on the floor. And he's been playing more than last season. Jrue and White aren't all-defense level this season but more PP is more time on the floor the team has to adjust coverage instead of everyone just staying home or straight up switching. For a couple of losses, it was our transition defense lacking. In the Hawks loss, it was defensive rebounding. So there's no catch-all answer.

It definitely doesn't seem like it esp after losses, but Cs are 4th in defense since KP came back. So I guess there are worse teams than us on that end. Like I said, only three teams have been consistently good to great on that end for me -- OKC, ORL, HOU.

Thank you kindly.

I do remember that about PP. I like him, so when he said people think he’s only good at one side, I choose to believe he can’t be that bad. I want to believe if it’s that bad now it can’t get worse in the playoffs. You said his offense is the offset it, IIRC. I don’t want to think about what could happen in the playoffs if his defense is already that bad. We can’t afford to keep him benched this season, in the playoffs, we’ll need that offense, I’m convinced.

I don’t remember what or when you mentioned that about Jrue and White, but I don’t doubt that you said it. I wonder what’s happening there?

I feel like all the guys look a little worn out. Short off-season and coming off winning the championship? I think they are tired. The numbers don’t say it, well the team numbers don’t, but they really do not have the pop they had last season IMO. I do hope it’s not because they are exhausted, because if they’re tired this early, imagine what they’ll be when the playoffs roll around.

Do you want us to pick someone else up? Do you think we already have enough? I do know for sure Sam has to find his way. JB must find his three ball. Everything else you said must right itself too.

I don’t think it will be harder to win it this season because we had an easy route last season, I believe in history, it’s always harder to win multiple in a row. Everybody and their mother are out for our blood, any team can go ham for one night, we are going to have a dog fight most nights for the rest of the season. Even though we’ll blow out some teams it won’t be because those teams aren’t giving their all. It’s a wild ride when your team has to get up for every game. Give Golden State credit for being one of the few, especially over the last decade or so.

It's really really hard to replicate what this team did last regular season. Statistically, they had a top 5 regular season all-time. So expectations should be lowered in the first place. And comparing this regular season to last could only ultimately lead to disappointment. But even then, they've somehow kept pace (relative to this same point last season). Shooting is worse (down year for Jrue, JB, and Hauser). Defense is worse. But not significantly so that we're losing games left and right.

I was watching PP closely in this game. This is the type of barometer game that would have similar feel to what he'll face in the playoffs. He couldn't get his shot off like he usually could. Same thing happened in the Bulls game and IINM, he also struggled vs. the Hawks w/o Trae. So if we're not getting Super Saiyan PP on offense/shooting, he's still a weak link on defense imo and our bench units wouldn't have same pop.

First time I mentioned anything about Jrue and White. But it's noticeable. Maybe they're coasting. Maybe they're tired from the long summer I dunno. Why I wanted Joe to expand his rotation. Throw in some Walsh/Springer/Scheierman/Peterson in the 1st half like Brad used to do when he was coach. But Joe trusts who he trusts and I'm not a championship coach. You just hope it works out in the end. I don't think trading/signing a vet will help unless it's someone he already trusts or someone who's familiar with the system/players. I don't think Walker would play tbh. A smart grizzled vet on the level of Horford or Holiday coming in probably would.

In terms of fatigue... I dunno, but except for White and Pritchard, all our main guys have played less minutes (in a couple of cases significantly less minutes) after 29 games this season than last. So it's not like they're getting overworked. At least not more than last season. I also think our offense and defense (system, not effort) have "been lazy". Harsh to call it that, but both ends feel oversimplified so they don't have to over-exert themselves in the regular season.

[The Corey's]

Coaching

[Jellybeans]

We have Orlando in east and OKC in west where refs letting them play physical on D and they wont get called for foul.
Complete a$$ game.

[ThePigeon]

Defense wasn't good. There was no energy in the 2nd half
Some possession where KP defended the 3 pt line and there was a switch he and his teammate got stuck and ORL got an open 3 or open drive to the basket

But, for the me issue was offense against a physical team that took away the 3s
13 assists are not enough for a win against any team. Except JB who took his man to the basket almost at will (but also got stripped about 5 times), we didn't have enough player that can create for themselves
Where was the passing game?
The White 3 pointer at the end from a pass from AL was one of the only team plays we had with multiple effective passes

[jonige94]

Magic just have a better coach.

[Fierce1]

Magic just have a better coach.

If that were true then Orlando would not have lost to the Cavs in the 1st rnd where Donovan shot 25% from 3pt land.

[Green89]

Bad loss, especially when the Cavs next 4 games are the Nuggets, Warriors, Lakers, and Mavericks. This may be the best time of the season to gain ground on them.

[Fierce1]

Bad loss, especially when the Cavs next 4 games are the Nuggets, Warriors, Lakers, and Mavericks. This may be the best time of the season to gain ground on them.

Best time to catch the Cavs is in March.

Right now the Cs are still sleepwalking.

[phincsfan]

One more one more thing, why do we only give guys one chance to prove themselves? They have bad moments and never see the light again. How do you have 2 to 3 good games, then have a meh five minutes and never play again (Peterson)? We almost gave up on Pritchard in the same scenario. At least we had somewhat of an excuse because we had Smart, White AND Brogs ahead of him, but this season other guys can get minutes and we’re not doing it! Who is behind the Jays? No one, because Sam has missed quite a few. Even with Sam, there should be consistent enough minutes for other players. There is no way there are no minutes without Brissy and many times Sam! It’s time to force guys out there for longer stretches, WITH the good players! Rico should get a chance. Peterson didn’t do poorly with his chance, PLAY him until he’s terrible. Walsh can be forced a little more.

IMO one word, knock on wood, health.

[phincsfan]

Hats off to the Magic because they came to play. That gym was filled with C's fan from all over the country who bought those tickets for an XMas vacation months ago who were ready to see JT, JB and Paolo. Instead they saw JB vs the Osceola Magic and at one point the entire gym was filled with "Lets Go Celtics" chants. (That was hysterical ).

If that game was the Magic and Wiz, it would be empty and Jordan Poole would have probably scored 50 and led the Wiz to a W. Never sleep on what a sold out gym can do for a bunch of bench players who are playing for their careers. And the C's jumpers never woke up and the Osceola Magic enjoyed their championship game.

[phincsfan]

Magic just have a better coach.