Trade Ideas Thread

[100proof]

Golden State get: Hayward, 14
Philly gets: Wiggins
Celtics get: Horford, 2

Would anyone do it?

I love Hayward but I jump on this for the chance at Wiseman. I just don’t see any scenario that Golden State considers this though

love Wiseman, but I am torn on his fit in Boston.

And I think GSW does consider it. Wiggins is pure garbage contract. Signed through 2023, way overpaid.
Wiggins is a minus 10 net rating. MINUS 10
A win share per 48 of .044
obpm of 0
dbpm of -2
vorp of 0.2
points added by overall shooting is -494!!!

he is 111th this season in winshares among wings.

The only thing he is good at is finishing at the rim on handoffs, but he doesnt like to do that. (95th percentile which is only 9,5% of his possessions)

36th percentile in Iso
80th percentile in spot up
79th percentile in transition
30th percentile in pick and roll ball handler

He is a mediocre bench level talent getting paid like an allstar. He is trash and it will cost the Warriors a pick just to move him.

[Dogen]

Golden State get: Hayward, 14
Philly gets: Wiggins
Celtics get: Horford, 2

Would anyone do it?

I'd do it, don't think GS would consider it though. Wiseman wants to play there and they are a team that can bring him along slowly yet still be good.

For the Celtics, it would be nice to have an interior presence that other team's bigs don't flow through like water, but aside from that I haven't seen enough of Wiseman to know if he's a good fit. Since I no longer see a future for Hayward here, this would be a risk well worth taking. If Wiseman meets his potential the Celtics are probably the most complete team in the league.

Wiggins might do well in Philly, he'd get opportunities there for sure. Al looks pretty cooked.

Wish we could get Baynes back instead.

[Curmudgeon]

Wish we could get Baynes back instead.

We can--he's a free agent at the end of the year-- which is why we should say no to Horford, who looks more and more like Average Al with each game.

Maybe the Kings might want to start afresh now that Vlade has been fired. Maybe they would take Hayward for Harrison Barnes and filler, the get out from under Barnes' deal. Something like Hayward and a first rounder or two for Barnes and Bjelica.
Certainly the Celtics don't have room on the roster for three first round picks getting guaranteed money.

[djFan71]

Golden State get: Hayward, 14
Philly gets: Wiggins
Celtics get: Horford, 2

Would anyone do it?

I'd do it, don't think GS would consider it though. Wiseman wants to play there and they are a team that can bring him along slowly yet still be good.

For the Celtics, it would be nice to have an interior presence that other team's bigs don't flow through like water, but aside from that I haven't seen enough of Wiseman to know if he's a good fit. Since I no longer see a future for Hayward here, this would be a risk well worth taking. If Wiseman meets his potential the Celtics are probably the most complete team in the league.

Wiggins might do well in Philly, he'd get opportunities there for sure. Al looks pretty cooked.

Wish we could get Baynes back instead.

I love me some trade up scenarios, but I can't get past Horford's $81M over the next 3 years. If you're getting KD or Zion or something, great. But, I don't think you are here. You're hoping for like Oladipo / Adebayo range out of Edwards/Okongwu. Really good guys, but not worth Al's contract too. BTW, saw this on Al's contract:

2022 $14.5 million guaranteed, $19.5 million guaranteed if PHI makes Finals in 2020, 2021 or 2022, fully if PHI wins Finals

So...... $14.5M it is.

[Taget]

Golden State get: Hayward, 14
Philly gets: Wiggins
Celtics get: Horford, 2

Would anyone do it?

Depends how much you want the #2 pick and how good you think that pick projects. I can't see Danny getting in on the LaVar Ball circus. So it all depends on how good you think James Wiseman can be. And whether you think he can play now and not just be yet another big man project. Because you're certainly not doing the trade for Horford.

It does reflect two things. First obvious. Horford has negative value with his large salary over a number of years. You need to pay for someone to take it.

Second that Hayward has a more positive value than might be seen on the surface. The surface being he is a constantly injured all-star quality player. One that may deliver big things to a team that is playoff or wants to be playoff bound. But may just end up on the bench. But ignored is that his contract will be an expiring after he takes his player option (and he almost certainly will). He is going to quickly be an asset a team looking to dump salary will salivate after.

[Theocy]

Is it time for us to put a cheeky trade offer for Embiid?

[Ernest]

Is it time for us to put a cheeky trade offer for Embiid?

Good idea, simply start a new thread on the Philly board.

[Curmudgeon]

I want no part of Embiid. He's the Sixer's whiney boy problem.

But I also do not want Hayward's salary moved for a pile of trash. I want a guy who can actually help: a wing who defends or an elite shooter.

[hugepatsfan]

New idea. What about a S&T of Theis for a bigger center like Derrick Favors in New Orleans? NO is in kind of a cap crunch with some young guys coming up. I’m sure they’d like to keep Favors but $10M might be too expensive. Theis gives them someone to rotate well with Hayes as he develops and at a cheaper salary vs having to key Favors walk.

In order to receive a player via S&T we’d have to shed significant salary to stay below the tax apron. But in some of the Hayward scenarios we’ve talked about we’ve been doing that. So as part of those moves this could be a good way to make a roster improvement.

[Sactowndog]

If we preserve max cap space when Kemba expires, like I've been putting in my plans, then we would target one of Embiid or Jokic in that offseason.

My Barnes ones from last page does that since he lines up with Kemba. End up with Barnes, #12, small amount of room under the tax. Other trade options.

Spoiler:

Non-Dallas one that accomplishes similar goals:

BOS: Hayward, Kanter, #30 for Barnes, #12
SAC: Barnes, Bjelicia, #12 for Wiggins, #1 (GSW 20), #30
GSW: Wiggins, #1 for Hayward, Bjelicia (into TPE), Kanter

GSW reloads. Pays tax galore.
SAC is probably iffiest. But, they get #1 and Wiggins. Maybe they send Corey Joseph into GSW TPE instead of Bjelicia?

* Not positive it’s legal to use the TPE in the same trade. I think so, since it’s different players, but I always have to look that one up.

We duck the tax and upgrade to #12. Barnes could be serviceable and his contract is moveable and aligns with Kemba. And decreases annually.

Kemba, Jaylen, Tatum, Barnes, Theis
Smart, Romeo, Grant, Timelord
Edwards, 12, 14, 26, Poirier

We'd be ~$130M - Just a vet min under the tax with 14 guys. Could leave it open, sign a vet, keep Semi/Wanamaker/Green or some or 2nd rounders, etc. Ro do more deals with the free up space, consolidate picks, etc.


Options:
You could possibly still do Barnes, 14 for A Gordon and free up just about ~$10M to use the non-taxpayer MLE.
Then sign Ibaka and end up in the same place with 12/26/Gordon/Ibaka. Favors would be another option for MLE.

I think getting draft compensation out of SAC is aggressive. Particularly because they're onto a new GM. Seems unlikely they'll be pressured into trading picks for a win-now piece like Hayward.

I do like the idea of Barnes as he fits this team well alongside the starters. 3&D and keeps the financials in tact as you noted. I also LOVE Bjelica as a stretch 5 here. If SAC wants to shed long-term money, but also make modest improvement in '20-21, how about Hayward for Barnes+Bjelica. Those two make about $29.4M, but since we're adding two good rotation players for 1 I think we can make the financials work to get under the tax if we do (a) follow-up(s) deal to dump Kanter/Poirier.

Walker / Smart / Edwards
Brown / Langford
Tatum / Ojeleye
Barnes / G Williams
Theis / Bjelica / R Williams

Plus the 1st round picks we have left after salary dump deals and Waters or Fall depending on how things shake out. I think it'd be possible to get under the tax with that.

Once again it'd be shaky wing depth but after we get under the tax, the following 2 years we can be aggressive with trades and MLE signings. Just keep everything within the Kemba/Barnes window except for extending Smart. Then you reset with a max FA around Tatum/Brown/Smart and go from there.

The problem with the Sac trade is the Kings have no wing depth and trading Barnes makes a bad situation worse. If you added picks perhaps. I looked at trying a Bjelica trade for 26 as I think it would be good for all parties but can’t find the salaries to send back.

[Sactowndog]

I like these ideas here. I think Hayward to SAC to help with a playoff push but shed long term money of Barnes makes sense.

I think Barnes makes sense in ORL for Gordon because he's a little more versatile in terms of guys he can fit with.

Here's my spin on it:

BOS gives: F Gordon Hayward
BOS gets: F Aaron Gordon, F/C Nemanja Bjelica

ORL gives: F Aaron Gordon
ORL gets: F Harrison Barnes

SAC gives: F Harrison Barnes, F/C Nemanja Bjelica
SAC gets: F Gordon Hayward

Why for ORL: Like I said above, they swap Gordon for a more diverse fit in Barnes. His shooting makes him a better fit with Fultz/Issac but he still brings good defense.

Why for SAC: They shed lots of money over the long haul, but in the process of doing so they upgrade their talent for next year. One beat reporter predicted they'd just decline Bjeleica at $7.3M because the money matters so I think they'd love the long term savings.

Why for us: We save about $9M in this deal to duck the tax. Turn Hayward into a new, well-fitting front court pairing on both ends. We'd need a follow up deal to dump Kanter and Poirier but we have extra picks for that. We won't have enough money to use the full MEL but we can lock in a vet or two for more than the minimum.

Kemba / Smart / Edwards
Brown / Langford
Tatum / Ojelye
Gordon / G Williams
Bjelica / Theis / R Williams

Because of Bjelica's shooting you can actually play bigger with him alongside Theis as matchups call for it too. I think this is a good way to salvage basketball value if we have to move Hayward for money reasons.

I don’t think the Kings are in position to make a playoff push: Lakers, Clippers, GSW, Denver, Utah, Houston, Dallas are all locks.

That puts the Kings competing with:
Portland with a healthy Nurkic, Collins and 17 pick
Minnesota with KAT, Russell and #1
Phoenix with Ayton, Booker a great core plus #10
Memphis and New Orleans with their core

Kings are arguably the last team in the west. Gordon would just be a salary dump as he isn’t staying around the Kings and is the wrong timeline. I’m not sure I give up Bjeli and Barnes for just dumping salary when the Kings aren’t a free agent destination.

Now I agree Bjelcia is a great fit on Boston with scoring off the bench and a stretch 5. If the Kings could make it work Bjelicia for 26 and filler makes sense. I just can’t find filler.

[Curmudgeon]

As Sactown dog noted, it's all about the picks. Put enough of them in, and it might work. Also, if the Kings want a replacement wing, the Celtics could throw in Ojeleye-- but he's a useful player so I'd want something in return, Richaun Holmes, perhaps?

[hugepatsfan]

I like these ideas here. I think Hayward to SAC to help with a playoff push but shed long term money of Barnes makes sense.

I think Barnes makes sense in ORL for Gordon because he's a little more versatile in terms of guys he can fit with.

Here's my spin on it:

BOS gives: F Gordon Hayward
BOS gets: F Aaron Gordon, F/C Nemanja Bjelica

ORL gives: F Aaron Gordon
ORL gets: F Harrison Barnes

SAC gives: F Harrison Barnes, F/C Nemanja Bjelica
SAC gets: F Gordon Hayward

Why for ORL: Like I said above, they swap Gordon for a more diverse fit in Barnes. His shooting makes him a better fit with Fultz/Issac but he still brings good defense.

Why for SAC: They shed lots of money over the long haul, but in the process of doing so they upgrade their talent for next year. One beat reporter predicted they'd just decline Bjeleica at $7.3M because the money matters so I think they'd love the long term savings.

Why for us: We save about $9M in this deal to duck the tax. Turn Hayward into a new, well-fitting front court pairing on both ends. We'd need a follow up deal to dump Kanter and Poirier but we have extra picks for that. We won't have enough money to use the full MEL but we can lock in a vet or two for more than the minimum.

Kemba / Smart / Edwards
Brown / Langford
Tatum / Ojelye
Gordon / G Williams
Bjelica / Theis / R Williams

Because of Bjelica's shooting you can actually play bigger with him alongside Theis as matchups call for it too. I think this is a good way to salvage basketball value if we have to move Hayward for money reasons.

I don’t think the Kings are in position to make a playoff push: Lakers, Clippers, GSW, Denver, Utah, Houston, Dallas are all locks.

That puts the Kings competing with:
Portland with a healthy Nurkic, Collins and 17 pick
Minnesota with KAT, Russell and #1
Phoenix with Ayton, Booker a great core plus #10
Memphis and New Orleans with their core

Kings are arguably the last team in the west. Gordon would just be a salary dump as he isn’t staying around the Kings and is the wrong timeline. I’m not sure I give up Bjeli and Barnes for just dumping salary when the Kings aren’t a free agent destination.

Now I agree Bjelcia is a great fit on Boston with scoring off the bench and a stretch 5. If the Kings could make it work Bjelicia for 26 and filler makes sense. I just can’t find filler.

If the Kings aren’t a playoff team or even a threat to push for one, wouldn’t that be all the more reason to move Barnes for an expiring deal? Hield is signed long term. Fox will be due for an extension next year. Bagley the year after. If you guys keep Barnes it looks like you guys would end up pushing the luxury tax for what you call “arguably last team in the West”. Barnes/Bjelica for Hayward would save you guys about $45M in salary overall which I think would be desirable for a team not competing. Even if FAs won’t sign there it gives you flexibility to keep all the young guys that could potentially be used in trades down the line, rather than an older Barnes.

[Curmudgeon]

The Kings could be decent with the right pieces. But they need to build, and if they can get unprotected first rounders for anyone on their roster they have to consider it, especially when the deals coming back are expiring.

Bagley could be really good if healthy and Hield is an elite sniper. After that, everyone on the roster should be expendable. You might think twice about moving Fox, but he will want to get paid soon, even if he can't shoot.

But this is all a job for Vlade's replacement, whomever that is. (Just hope it isn't Mike Zarren.)

[Ernest]

I could see teams with low attendance (ie bad teams) being interested in Hayward. I know it's not super cool to make things racial, but he is one of the best American white players and that could help put more buts in seats. I feel like the Kings have tried this in the past.

[Sactowndog]

I like these ideas here. I think Hayward to SAC to help with a playoff push but shed long term money of Barnes makes sense.

I think Barnes makes sense in ORL for Gordon because he's a little more versatile in terms of guys he can fit with.

Here's my spin on it:

BOS gives: F Gordon Hayward
BOS gets: F Aaron Gordon, F/C Nemanja Bjelica

ORL gives: F Aaron Gordon
ORL gets: F Harrison Barnes

SAC gives: F Harrison Barnes, F/C Nemanja Bjelica
SAC gets: F Gordon Hayward

Why for ORL: Like I said above, they swap Gordon for a more diverse fit in Barnes. His shooting makes him a better fit with Fultz/Issac but he still brings good defense.

Why for SAC: They shed lots of money over the long haul, but in the process of doing so they upgrade their talent for next year. One beat reporter predicted they'd just decline Bjeleica at $7.3M because the money matters so I think they'd love the long term savings.

Why for us: We save about $9M in this deal to duck the tax. Turn Hayward into a new, well-fitting front court pairing on both ends. We'd need a follow up deal to dump Kanter and Poirier but we have extra picks for that. We won't have enough money to use the full MEL but we can lock in a vet or two for more than the minimum.

Kemba / Smart / Edwards
Brown / Langford
Tatum / Ojelye
Gordon / G Williams
Bjelica / Theis / R Williams

Because of Bjelica's shooting you can actually play bigger with him alongside Theis as matchups call for it too. I think this is a good way to salvage basketball value if we have to move Hayward for money reasons.

I don’t think the Kings are in position to make a playoff push: Lakers, Clippers, GSW, Denver, Utah, Houston, Dallas are all locks.

That puts the Kings competing with:
Portland with a healthy Nurkic, Collins and 17 pick
Minnesota with KAT, Russell and #1
Phoenix with Ayton, Booker a great core plus #10
Memphis and New Orleans with their core

Kings are arguably the last team in the west. Gordon would just be a salary dump as he isn’t staying around the Kings and is the wrong timeline. I’m not sure I give up Bjeli and Barnes for just dumping salary when the Kings aren’t a free agent destination.

Now I agree Bjelcia is a great fit on Boston with scoring off the bench and a stretch 5. If the Kings could make it work Bjelicia for 26 and filler makes sense. I just can’t find filler.

If the Kings aren’t a playoff team or even a threat to push for one, wouldn’t that be all the more reason to move Barnes for an expiring deal? Hield is signed long term. Fox will be due for an extension next year. Bagley the year after. If you guys keep Barnes it looks like you guys would end up pushing the luxury tax for what you call “arguably last team in the West”. Barnes/Bjelica for Hayward would save you guys about $45M in salary overall which I think would be desirable for a team not competing. Even if FAs won’t sign there it gives you flexibility to keep all the young guys that could potentially be used in trades down the line, rather than an older Barnes.

Barnes is only 28 and his deal declines. It’s not a horrible deal in the last two years. Cap space for the Kings is of dubious value unless you are renting it for picks. Even if Bjelcia only gets you a second I think you look to move him for some draft compensation.

[Sactowndog]

The Kings could be decent with the right pieces. But they need to build, and if they can get unprotected first rounders for anyone on their roster they have to consider it, especially when the deals coming back are expiring.

Bagley could be really good if healthy and Hield is an elite sniper. After that, everyone on the roster should be expendable. You might think twice about moving Fox, but he will want to get paid soon, even if he can't shoot.

But this is all a job for Vlade's replacement, whomever that is. (Just hope it isn't Mike Zarren.)

I think Fox will be kept and no point selling low on Bagley. Buddy, would be a challenge to trade. The rest will likely be available for picks or young talent.
Barnes at 20.2M and 18.3M is decent value for a swing forward just at 30.

[Curmudgeon]

Barnes at 20.2M and 18.3M is decent value for a swing forward just at 30.

Yes, he's good value for a contending team--he's an underrated defender who even as a rookie would give Paul Pierce fits-- but he doesn't move the needle much for a team like the Kings. And after he turns 30 his trade value goes down and the last two years of his deal have cost $40M. Once again, Vlade's replacement will have to figure this stuff out.

LOL, if you think Hield would be a challenge to trade, I'll gladly take him instead of Barnes.

[djFan71]

What about getting Otto Porter & #4? You don't avoid the tax but get #4.

BOS: Porter Jr, 4 for Hayward, 14, 30
CHI: Wiggins, 2, 30 for Porter Jr, 4
GSW: Hayward, 14 for Wiggins.

CHI moves up from #4 to #2 and gets #30 for bringing in Wiggins
GSW gets Hayward like always, but still get 14 instead of having to give up #2 with nothing else back. They can use that & their TPE on other deals.

We save $7M and get #4.

[Sactowndog]

Barnes at 20.2M and 18.3M is decent value for a swing forward just at 30.

Yes, he's good value for a contending team--he's an underrated defender who even as a rookie would give Paul Pierce fits-- but he doesn't move the needle much for a team like the Kings. And after he turns 30 his trade value goes down and the last two years of his deal have cost $40M. Once again, Vlade's replacement will have to figure this stuff out.

LOL, if you think Hield would be a challenge to trade, I'll gladly take him instead of Barnes.

Barnes is 30 the last year of his contract so not too bad. I see the Kings likely trading him for a pick or young talent next year.

Hield is a challenge if you want much back next year. Simmons floated Hield for #6 to Atlanta which I would do. The challenge with Buddy is matching contracts and getting back value.