Grant Williams Thread

[Slax]

Grant looking pretty smart right now for betting on himself instead of taking a contract extension over the offseason.

[Parliament10]

Grant looking pretty smart right now for betting on himself instead of taking a contract extension over the offseason.

Definitely. I wonder what the numbers were?
Celtics should have paid him, instead of playing with the figures.

[BK_2020]

Let's curb our enthusiasm a bit. He's an undersized 4 who hits some spot-up jumpers and can attack closeouts a bit. He's a 10 ppg scorer and he's going to lose a point or so when his 3 point shooting cools down to a sustainable level. That's the type of production where, If he can play some defense, he'd be worth the MLE.

[Parliament10]

Let's curb our enthusiasm a bit. He's an undersized 4 who hits some spot-up jumpers and can attack closeouts a bit. He's a 10 ppg scorer and he's going to lose a point or so when his 3 point shooting cools down to a sustainable level. That's the type of production where, If he can play some defense, he'd be worth the MLE.

Ahhh. Wrong.

Grant has been dabbling with 50-40-90 for 2 years straight.
Besides actually being able to Start. He can Backup 3 Positions on Offense, and Switch-off on All-5 on Defense.

[Slax]

Grant looking pretty smart right now for betting on himself instead of taking a contract extension over the offseason.

Definitely. I wonder what the numbers were?
Celtics should have paid him, instead of playing with the figures.

No idea, so maybe they actually offered him a ton more money than I realize and he was an idiot for turning them down.

Let's curb our enthusiasm a bit. He's an undersized 4 who hits some spot-up jumpers and can attack closeouts a bit. He's a 10 ppg scorer and he's going to lose a point or so when his 3 point shooting cools down to a sustainable level. That's the type of production where, If he can play some defense, he'd be worth the MLE.

Even accounting for a hot streak, you think his current level of production and upside potential don't measure pretty favorably compared to PJ Tucker, GP2, Malik Monk? Unless he cools substantially, I would expect him to get a first year salary a bit above the MLE, I guess maybe somewhere in the low teens as total speculation.

[BK_2020]

Grant looking pretty smart right now for betting on himself instead of taking a contract extension over the offseason.

Definitely. I wonder what the numbers were?
Celtics should have paid him, instead of playing with the figures.

No idea, so maybe they actually offered him a ton more money than I realize and he was an idiot for turning them down.

Let's curb our enthusiasm a bit. He's an undersized 4 who hits some spot-up jumpers and can attack closeouts a bit. He's a 10 ppg scorer and he's going to lose a point or so when his 3 point shooting cools down to a sustainable level. That's the type of production where, If he can play some defense, he'd be worth the MLE.

Even accounting for a hot streak, you think his current level of production and upside potential don't measure pretty favorably compared to PJ Tucker, GP2, Malik Monk? Unless he cools substantially, I would expect him to get a first year salary a bit above the MLE, I guess maybe somewhere in the low teens as total speculation.

Grant gets compared to PJ Tucker a lot because they are both short and shoot spot up threes but I don't think they are very similar. PJ Tucker has been very effective on defense. Grant has been very ineffective. We'll see how the impact metrics stack up this year after a good number of games have been played but he just hasn't been a difference maker on defense.

[Slax]

Definitely. I wonder what the numbers were?
Celtics should have paid him, instead of playing with the figures.

No idea, so maybe they actually offered him a ton more money than I realize and he was an idiot for turning them down.

Let's curb our enthusiasm a bit. He's an undersized 4 who hits some spot-up jumpers and can attack closeouts a bit. He's a 10 ppg scorer and he's going to lose a point or so when his 3 point shooting cools down to a sustainable level. That's the type of production where, If he can play some defense, he'd be worth the MLE.

Even accounting for a hot streak, you think his current level of production and upside potential don't measure pretty favorably compared to PJ Tucker, GP2, Malik Monk? Unless he cools substantially, I would expect him to get a first year salary a bit above the MLE, I guess maybe somewhere in the low teens as total speculation.

Grant gets compared to PJ Tucker a lot because they are both short and shoot spot up threes but I don't think they are very similar. PJ Tucker has been very effective on defense. Grant has been very ineffective. We'll see how the impact metrics stack up this year after a good number of games have been played but he just hasn't been a difference maker on defense.

One way they're definitely not similar is that PJ Tucker is 37 and Grant will be 24 next offseason. PJ snagged a three year deal where he will make $11.5M in the season where he turns 40 years old. Even if Tucker is a substantially better defender, the age difference more than makes up for that when some team with a moderate amount of cap space has to make the decision of whether or not to burn it on a particular player who's going to be on their roster for the next three to four years.

[SLCceltic]

No idea, so maybe they actually offered him a ton more money than I realize and he was an idiot for turning them down.


Even accounting for a hot streak, you think his current level of production and upside potential don't measure pretty favorably compared to PJ Tucker, GP2, Malik Monk? Unless he cools substantially, I would expect him to get a first year salary a bit above the MLE, I guess maybe somewhere in the low teens as total speculation.

Grant gets compared to PJ Tucker a lot because they are both short and shoot spot up threes but I don't think they are very similar. PJ Tucker has been very effective on defense. Grant has been very ineffective. We'll see how the impact metrics stack up this year after a good number of games have been played but he just hasn't been a difference maker on defense.

One way they're definitely not similar is that PJ Tucker is 37 and Grant will be 24 next offseason. PJ snagged a three year deal where he will make $11.5M in the season where he turns 40 years old. Even if Tucker is a substantially better defender, the age difference more than makes up for that when some team with a moderate amount of cap space has to make the decision of whether or not to burn it on a particular player who's going to be on their roster for the next three to four years.

ya its still only yr4 and he has made significant developmental growth the passed 2 seasons ...there was just not a role for him yr2 and he struggled mightily !
yr3 he broke out as a 3&D, now he's slashing and finishing ...if he can develop facilitation the way JT has then we're looking at a very good starter for a contending team

I think BRad should lock him up now, the numbers I heard theown around in the offseason were 12-17, right now 15-17 is a bargain and he seems capable of evolving into a 20+ guy

three level scorer, dead eye from 3
good FT% (which is such an underrated factor sometines) 50-40-90 def in his scope of development, smart great citizen

I do wish he would shutup and be less demonstrative w the refs and I'm sure teammates get sick of his constant chatter but ZERO injury health concerns and he is super competitive

I''d happily give him 5/15 yr deal right now tick tock tick tock

[Hal14]

Definitely. I wonder what the numbers were?
Celtics should have paid him, instead of playing with the figures.

No idea, so maybe they actually offered him a ton more money than I realize and he was an idiot for turning them down.

Let's curb our enthusiasm a bit. He's an undersized 4 who hits some spot-up jumpers and can attack closeouts a bit. He's a 10 ppg scorer and he's going to lose a point or so when his 3 point shooting cools down to a sustainable level. That's the type of production where, If he can play some defense, he'd be worth the MLE.

Even accounting for a hot streak, you think his current level of production and upside potential don't measure pretty favorably compared to PJ Tucker, GP2, Malik Monk? Unless he cools substantially, I would expect him to get a first year salary a bit above the MLE, I guess maybe somewhere in the low teens as total speculation.

Grant gets compared to PJ Tucker a lot because they are both short and shoot spot up threes but I don't think they are very similar. PJ Tucker has been very effective on defense. Grant has been very ineffective. We'll see how the impact metrics stack up this year after a good number of games have been played but he just hasn't been a difference maker on defense.

Impact metrics aren't a very good measure of defensive performance. If you went off them, Doncic is a better defender than Smart.

Grant's D so far this season has been good, but not great. It's still very early. If we look at a larger sample size, last season he played at a near all-NBA defense level and absolutely played at an all-NBA defense level in the playoffs.

Grant was our best defender against Durant, he did a good job defending Giannis. And Grant is only 23 - still getting better - he's shown very good improvement each year in the league.

[Sactowndog]

Grant is going to get paid as Wings who can shoot and play D are very valuable. I would expect the Kings for one target him.

[darrendaye]

Read on Twitter

[jmr07019]

Just a hunch but I'd bet Grant would show a lot more offensive game and be viewed differently if he got drafted by a team who didn't have both established wings and established scorers in front of him.

[zoyathedestroya]

Need to get caught up less on positions and focus more on skill and impact to winning. Grant’s not a “traditional wing” but has the requisite tools to complement whoever’s on the floor with him. The same can be said of guys like Smart, White, and Brogdon. If I’m trading anyone to get “bigger” and have emergency depth in the playoffs, it’s PP.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

My birthday wish for Grant is for him to talk/complain less to the refs.

[BK_2020]

Just a hunch but I'd bet Grant would show a lot more offensive game and be viewed differently if he got drafted by a team who didn't have both established wings and established scorers in front of him.

He's being force-fed minutes and started half his games and yet his scoring has exploded to all of 9.1 ppg. Per 100 his scoring has gone down. That's what his supposedly expanded offensive game amounts to. A nice roleplayer to have at the back of your rotation but not some 25 mil per year starter.

[Fencer reregistered]

Just a hunch but I'd bet Grant would show a lot more offensive game and be viewed differently if he got drafted by a team who didn't have both established wings and established scorers in front of him.

He's being force-fed minutes and started half his games and yet his scoring has exploded to all of 9.1 ppg. Per 100 his scoring has gone down. That's what his supposedly expanded offensive game amounts to. A nice roleplayer to have at the back of your rotation but not some 25 mil per year starter.

Grant's newfound closeout-attacking and/or roll skills just good enough to exploit opportunities created by the best offense in basketball history. His post skills don't look strong enough to beat any kind of double team, nor a substantially bigger single defender. His ability to get open for 3s is a little beyond basic (those sidestep moves are pretty good), but not a lot beyond (I can't think of a second example to cite).

So yeah -- offensively, he's a nicely effective role player, not a notably creator.

And by the way -- in the most famous offensive game of his career, he shot 7-18 from 3. That was good enough to win a hugely important game, but it wasn't quite a display of offensive dominance.

[jmr07019]

Just a hunch but I'd bet Grant would show a lot more offensive game and be viewed differently if he got drafted by a team who didn't have both established wings and established scorers in front of him.

He's being force-fed minutes and started half his games and yet his scoring has exploded to all of 9.1 ppg. Per 100 his scoring has gone down. That's what his supposedly expanded offensive game amounts to. A nice roleplayer to have at the back of your rotation but not some 25 mil per year starter.

I agree that Grant is a role player and never going to be more than that but he was 5th in minutes for both regular and post season on last year's finals team and 4th in minutes on this years best team. 7th in starts on last years finals team. 6th most starts on the team this year. He's at worst a 7th man on an excellent team.

- 2 pt% up to 65%
- TS% up to 68%
- assists per game has doubled while TOs have remained constant
- defensive rebound % up from 12% to 15%
- remains one of the leagues best 3 point shooters percentage wise at 44%

Grant is never going to be more than a role player but I don't think it's far fetched to say he could grab an extra bucket or two if he played on a team like Philly, Memphis, Denver, Phoenix and average say 12-13 points / game. You can normally trade efficiency for extra volume. Fortunately we don't need to.

[hugepatsfan]

Assuming Horford's deal is back-loaded, we are now at $159,216,302 in salaries for the following 11 players:

Smart / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown / White
Tatum / Hauser
Horford / Gallo
RWilliams / Kornet

The luxury tax line is projected to be $162M. This year, we are about $25M over. My guess would be that ownership is ok being similarly over the tax line for next year. So I look at our budget as about $187M for next year. That gives us about $27.8M to spend on the last 4 roster spots, which any extension for Grant would be a part of.

We are in a tremendous spot to keep Grant Williams if we want to, even if his market gets crazy.

[165bows]

Assuming Horford's deal is back-loaded, we are now at $159,216,302 in salaries for the following 11 players:

Smart / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown / White
Tatum / Hauser
Horford / Gallo
RWilliams / Kornet

The luxury tax line is projected to be $162M. This year, we are about $25M over. My guess would be that ownership is ok being similarly over the tax line for next year. So I look at our budget as about $187M for next year. That gives us about $27.8M to spend on the last 4 roster spots, which any extension for Grant would be a part of.

We are in a tremendous spot to keep Grant Williams if we want to, even if his market gets crazy.

Yup. Interesting in light of prior discussions about the front court - that $ space becomes close to $40M for six spots (most of which will be minimums) if we set aside Gallo/Pritchard for a moment (as non-core rotation guys).

Seems safe to assume Grant is back, along with up to three rookies (JD, Begarin, a draft pick). So keeping Grant and adding another high 7 to low 8 figure big is possible - becomes more a question of need/fit at this point with the team doing so well.

[Hal14]

For sh*ts and giggles, here's what a 2019 re-draft might look like:

Rank Player
1 Ja Morant
2 Zion Williamson
3 Darius Garland
4 Tyler Herro
5 Keldon Johnson
6 Jordan Poole
7 RJ Barrett
8 Deandre Hunter
9 Kevin Porter Jr
10 Grant Williams
11 Cam Johnson
12 PJ Washington
13 Brandon Clarke
14 Nic Claxton
15 Bol Bol
16 Darius Bazley
17 Matisse Thybulle
18 Coby White
19 Rui Hachimura
20 Terance Mann
21 Talen Horton-Tucker
22 Cam Reddish
23 Nassir Little
24 Romeo Langford
25 Daniel Gafford
26 Jaxson Hayes
27 Nickeil Alexander-Walker
28 Chuma Okeke
29 Cody Martin
30 Jalen McDaniels
31 Isaiah Roby
32 Bruno Fernando
33 KZ Okpala
34 Eric Paschall
35 Goga Bitadze
36 Ty Jerome

Note: all the guys ahead of Grant, I believe all got extended for over $20 mil a year. I think the only guy below Grant to get extended was Clarke, and he got about $12 mil a year..