The Official Off-Season Thread, part I of many

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Love two years ago (on a bad team) was putting up monster number. Did his knees really get that bad in less than two years?

[Fencer reregistered]

I doubt Love objects to at least trying on defense. I.e., there's no reason I know of he couldn't defend at roughly a Kelly Olynyk level.

In general, he should be able to match or exceed Olynyk in every aspect of the game -- perhaps even in shoulder health.

No way Melo, at his age, is worth the #3 pick. No way Love, with his current troubles and balky knees, is worth the #3 pick. Picks 16 and 23 and maybe a future C's pick to the Knicks should be sufficient to grease the wheels of that three way trade.

Yeah. If Love is having health issues, then his value and Melo's become comparable. The reason he was ahead of Melo was youth, but if he's breaking down, then that doesn't apply.

What's more -- if Love is having health issues, then Cleveland can dump him, admitting that the Wiggins trade was a fiasco, and still save face.

But would we want him on his current contract even as a free gift? That's hard to answer until we know just how bad the health issues are.

Part of me thinks Love's current diminished value makes him even more of an Ainge target. He certainly can (and has) played much better. He's certainly in a situation that's a bad fit. I'd expect Ainge to renew his "low-ball" offer reportedly made before the trade deadline. If Ainge can add Love by only giving up B and C assets (picks 16 and 23, etc.) and still preserve his A assets (pick 3, Marcus Smart, etc.) that just gives him more flexibility to improve the team even further. Imagine being able to add Love and still being able to get another "star" player (Butler?) with the #3. And still having free agent cap room on top of that. Would be amazing.

And I wouldn't underestimate the value of having as many "friends of Kevin Durant" (like Kevin Love) on the team as possible.

[Jingles]

I doubt Love objects to at least trying on defense. I.e., there's no reason I know of he couldn't defend at roughly a Kelly Olynyk level.

In general, he should be able to match or exceed Olynyk in every aspect of the game -- perhaps even in shoulder health.

Yeah. If Love is having health issues, then his value and Melo's become comparable. The reason he was ahead of Melo was youth, but if he's breaking down, then that doesn't apply.

What's more -- if Love is having health issues, then Cleveland can dump him, admitting that the Wiggins trade was a fiasco, and still save face.

But would we want him on his current contract even as a free gift? That's hard to answer until we know just how bad the health issues are.

Part of me thinks Love's current diminished value makes him even more of an Ainge target. He certainly can (and has) played much better. He's certainly in a situation that's a bad fit. I'd expect Ainge to renew his "low-ball" offer reportedly made before the trade deadline. If Ainge can add Love by only giving up B and C assets (picks 16 and 23, etc.) and still preserve his A assets (pick 3, Marcus Smart, etc.) that just gives him more flexibility to improve the team even further. Imagine being able to add Love and still being able to get another "star" player (Butler?) with the #3. And still having free agent cap room on top of that. Would be amazing.

And I wouldn't underestimate the value of having as many "friends of Kevin Durant" (like Kevin Love) on the team as possible.

Knees or no knees, he's shown for 8 years that he doesn't have lateral quickness, certainly not at Olynyk's level. If he could defend, he would have done so at some point, like the last two years on a title contender. This isn't something he can learn or Stevens can fix. Healthy or not, he doesn't have it.

[ConstableGeneva]

STILL too good to be true let's get closer to contention offseason, non-Durant edition:
1. Trade #3, #23, #35, Rozier, Amir for Butler.
2. Trade Smart & Young for Noel.
3. Draft a wing at #16 (Luwawu, Prince, Valentine, or Bembry?).
4. Draft a big at #31 (Johnson, Onuaku, Qi, or Stone?).
5. Draft-and-stash international bigs with #45, #51, #58.
6. Sign Butler's partner in crime Pau Gasol to a $30M 2-year deal (2nd year non-guaranteed).
7. Sign a veteran backup PG to share ballhandling duties with Butler in 2nd unit. KD's buddy, DJ Augustin or ex-Celtic Jerryd Bayless, are both good 3-point shooters and can maybe signed to short-term deals. Either of them will do.
8. Preserve cap for 2017 offseason.

9. Go into the season with:

Starters: IT, Butler, Crowder, Gasol, Noel
Second Unit: Augustin, Bradley, #16, Jerebs, KO
Deep bench: Hunter, #31, Mickey

(So that's basically upgrading Turner, Sully, and Amir to Butler, Gasol, and Noel without giving up the 2017 & 2018 BKN picks, our own future picks, and the MEM pick.)

10. Trade for another star midseason if the right one at the right price becomes available.
11. Reach ECF, bitches.
12, Wake up.

[Curmudgeon]

Jimmy Butler Noel and Gasol together (at the cost of Smart, #3) is barely a playoff team. Chicago had two of them together last year, and how did that work out?

Let's forget the big splash trade unless it's for Paul George or Kawhi Leonard.

1. Draft the following players: Bender (#43), Zizic (#16), Valentine (#23). I'd like to conssolidate the second rounders to move up, but failing that I take the following 5 guys: Bryce Johnson (#31), Pascal Siakam (#35) , Malcolm Brogdon (#45), Isaiah Whitehead (#51) Jarod Uthoff (#58). The guys who don't make the roter get stashed, traded, sent to Maine or discarded.

Sign a couple of free agent bigs. Pau Gasol would be fine, and maybe ZaZa.

That's a 50-win team.

[OFWGKTA]

Jimmy Butler Noel and Gasol together (at the cost of Smart, #3) is barely a playoff team. Chicago had two of them together last year, and how did that work out?

Let's forget the big splash trade unless it's for Paul George or Kawhi Leonard.

1. Draft the following players: Bender (#43), Zizic (#16), Valentine (#23). I'd like to conssolidate the second rounders to move up, but failing that I take the following 5 guys: Bryce Johnson (#31), Pascal Siakam (#35) , Malcolm Brogdon (#45), Isaiah Whitehead (#51) Jarod Uthoff (#58). The guys who don't make the roter get stashed, traded, sent to Maine or discarded.

Sign a couple of free agent bigs. Pau Gasol would be fine, and maybe ZaZa.

That's a 50-win team.

Barely a playoff team when you add a somewhere between all star and superstar SG, and two talented big men to an already almost 50 win team???? I will say though I want no part of old man Gasol.

[FakeScreenName123]

That's a 50-win team.

But not a second round playoff team.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Just found our Amir Johnson replacement if we waive him or he gets traded. David West is opting out and is a FA. Let's give him a 2 year, $25 million deal, with the second year being non-guaranteed. Sure, he's old, but his per36 numbers last year were still pretty damn good. He'd be a great stop-gap big.

[Edug27]

Living in a realistic world, here's how I'd handle this offseason if I were Danny.

1. Trade the number 3 pick and others for Butler. In this scenario, 'others' would be Rozier, Jerebko, etc.
2. Re-sign Turner. Move him to the back-up PG role (Shaun Livingston-esque)
3. Move Bradley to 6th man spot. A position I've long wanted for him.
4. Have R.J. Hunter shoot 2,000 three pt'ers per day from now until the start of the season.

Your PG/SG/SF positions are now set.

PG: IT / ET
SG: Butler / Bradley
SF: Crowder / Hunter

5. Have Olynyk shoot 2,000 three pt'ers per day from now until the start of the season. If he hesitates on any shot, then the count restarts.
6. Part ways with Sully and Zeller.
7. Make an offer to Al Horford. With his improved 3 pt shot, he can play the 4 position here. Sort of like Draymond-lite. Have Horford shoot 250 pick and pop three pt'ers per day from now until the start of the season.

If by some stretch we manage to grab Horford on a decent contract (which will be tough), our PF position is set.

PF: Horford / Olynyk

8. Mickey needs to learn to put that 7'2+ wingspan to great use. Have him watch some Biyombo Or some Ezeli footage all summer.
9. Now the toughest part is the center position. I'm OK with bringing Amir back. But first I'd make an offer to Whiteside and Biyombo. See which can be obtained. I'm guessing neither. Then there is Marcus Smart. He's trade bait if I ever become GM here. If I can manage to keep him out of the Butler deal, then I'm trying to swing him for a big man. Who? Not sure.

C: ??? (Amir as plan Z) / Mickey

Plan Z means we keep Smart.

The goal here is to put together a team better than Toronto, while keeping the BK picks and remaining flexible as we approach the 2017 trade deadline.

[BfB]

Plan A right now is Butler
Plan B is to trade for Love

The issue with Butler is they are willing to trade the 3rd pick, but not both Crowder and Bradley.

For Love, they get to keep the 3rd pick and would trade Crowder and Bradley.

In the Butler scenario, they pair Crowder with Butler and retain a max slot for KD or some other star. They'd retain Jerebko as their vet center and use their other picks to replenish depth.

Jerebko/Crowder/Durant/Butler/IT

In the Love scenario they draft Jaylen Brown and sign Harrison Barnes. Trading Crowder/Bradley offsets most of Love's money, which leaves room for KD or some other star.

Love/Barnes/KD/Smart/IT

In every scenario they are trying to leave enough assets to address front court needs and add multiple stars.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[leper-con]

Plan A right now is Butler
Plan B is to trade for Love

The issue with Butler is they are willing to trade the 3rd pick, but not both Crowder and Bradley.

For Love, they get to keep the 3rd pick and would trade Crowder and Bradley.

In the Butler scenario, they pair Crowder with Butler and retain a max slot for KD or some other star. They'd retain Jerebko as their vet center and use their other picks to replenish depth.

Jerebko/Crowder/Durant/Butler/IT

In the Love scenario they draft Jaylen Brown and sign Harrison Barnes. Trading Crowder/Bradley offsets most of Love's money, which leaves room for KD or some other star.

Love/Barnes/KD/Smart/IT

In every scenario they are trying to leave enough assets to address front court needs and add multiple stars.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

No way you can give up Bradley and Crowder for Love. They are the identity of this team. I'd give up Bradley Crowder can play the small ball 3 or 4 h'ed pair well Butler or KD.

[Avalanche]

Plan A right now is Butler
Plan B is to trade for Love

The issue with Butler is they are willing to trade the 3rd pick, but not both Crowder and Bradley.

For Love, they get to keep the 3rd pick and would trade Crowder and Bradley.

In the Butler scenario, they pair Crowder with Butler and retain a max slot for KD or some other star. They'd retain Jerebko as their vet center and use their other picks to replenish depth.

Jerebko/Crowder/Durant/Butler/IT

In the Love scenario they draft Jaylen Brown and sign Harrison Barnes. Trading Crowder/Bradley offsets most of Love's money, which leaves room for KD or some other star.

Love/Barnes/KD/Smart/IT

In every scenario they are trying to leave enough assets to address front court needs and add multiple stars.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Or both?

Bradley/Olynyk/Late pick for Love
#3 and parts (Amirs deal and youngins) for Butler..

Pitch to Whiteside, Horfod... or (ugh) Howard in FA?

IT/Butler/Crowder/Love/??

I'm happy to keep going the youth route unless we genuinely have a road to a title team, but being a clear second in the conference is pretty damn close

[ConstableGeneva]

What's worse than trading for Love OR signing Barnes? Doing BOTH. Without KD (still a longshot) and a legit rim protector, I don't know how much better that team is than the current one. Cs would throw away flexibility for two of the most disappointing players in these Finals who are gonna get paid star-level money for the next four years.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Jimmy_Toscano/status/743651484835930112[/tweet]
Gimme plan C, D, or E.

[FakeScreenName123]

In every scenario

there's no real back to the basket, traditional, slow, mid-range dominate C and I love it.

[GoCeltics123]

Ok, time to bring this back:

[London2Boston]

Plan A right now is Butler
Plan B is to trade for Love

The issue with Butler is they are willing to trade the 3rd pick, but not both Crowder and Bradley.

For Love, they get to keep the 3rd pick and would trade Crowder and Bradley.

In the Butler scenario, they pair Crowder with Butler and retain a max slot for KD or some other star. They'd retain Jerebko as their vet center and use their other picks to replenish depth.

Jerebko/Crowder/Durant/Butler/IT

In the Love scenario they draft Jaylen Brown and sign Harrison Barnes. Trading Crowder/Bradley offsets most of Love's money, which leaves room for KD or some other star.

Love/Barnes/KD/Smart/IT

In every scenario they are trying to leave enough assets to address front court needs and add multiple stars.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That Love scenario makes me puke.

[Ben-N1ce]

What's worse than trading for Love OR signing Barnes? Doing BOTH. Without KD (still a longshot) and a legit rim protector, I don't know how much better that team is than the current one. Cs would throw away flexibility for the two of the most disappointing players in these Finals who are gonna get paid star-level money for the next four years.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Jimmy_Toscano/status/743651484835930112[/tweet]
Gimme plan C, D, or E.

If Barnes hit 10+ more shots that would be pretty good though. It's also hard to hit shots when you are left wide open. It's like technical FT's. Max.

[BakersDozen]

Im fine with Love but giving up both AB and Crowder is terrible for us.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[ConstableGeneva]

Im fine with Love but giving up both AB and Crowder is terrible for us.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Watching the Finals, Bradley and Crowder, two of the best wing/perimeter defenders in the league, are exactly the guys the Cavs need to coast through the East (even more than they have) and beat pretty much anyone in the West. They won't be burdened with being #2 and #3 options on offense either and just focus on defense. Just simply getting rid of Love would be addition by subtraction for them too. Frye and co. can pretty much cover for his production in the regular season.

Sure, the Celtics will get their long sought after 2nd option on offense, but that leaves a huge hole on defense. I don't think the net improvement (if that) would be worth it. I'd much rather roll with the semi-youth movement and slow rebuild than take on Love's contract and the questions that come with him.

[BakersDozen]

Is this realistic at all

Bradley/KO/Jonas for Love

Smart/Johnson/3/23 for Butler

Sign Horford

Re sign Turner

Draft bigs with our remaining picks

Thomas/Turner
Butler/Hunter
Crowder
Love/Mickey
Horford

Bench stinks but that would be a damn good first unit


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums