What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling?

[sam_I_am]

his ceiling is superstar, top 10 player in the league. he is already the best player on the celtics and i believe by the end of the season almost no one will be able to deny it.

Tatum and Brown have leapfrogged each other several times already. I thought it wouldn't happen again, but Tatum again is having a slow-ish start to the year -- by his earlier-this-calendar-year standards -- while Brown has taken a large leap forward.

I’m not sure what you mean but in my opinion Tatum is the superior player and it’s not even a question. Brown more consistently maxes out his capability.....in that way there may be some back and forth. However, the team is simply much better when Tatum is on the floor and a near disaster when he is not regardless of whether he is misfiring or turning it over. I love Brown and have no idea what his ceiling is will be. I have no idea how their careers will turn out or if they will be derailed by injury etc. Right now, Tatum is already a generational player and could be in the MVP conversation for years to come.

[AthrunZala]

Air JB is the heir apparent to his Airness

[Fencer reregistered]

in my opinion, it mostly comes down to the usage rate. brown wasn’t getting the opportunities last year that tatum was, so one might look at the numbers and think tatum was a little better. this year with no kemba/hayward, and with smart chilling out a bit, browns usage rate has shot way up and he is showing what he’s capable of, which is a hell of a lot.

Tatum looked superior last season mainly because his points were scored with a much higher degree of difficulty than Brown's.

that’s because tatum lives for taking bad, forced shots. really nothing to be proud of considering he misses a lot more than he makes.

I wouldn't go to that extreme. Tatum faces much more defensive challenge than Brown does. The "gravity" argument that everybody else's scoring benefits from Tatum's presence has a lot of merit.

Sometimes Tatum also benefits from more offense scheming to spring him free. (E.g., he uses Theis seals a lot more than Brown does, and he's more likely to get a double screen than Brown is.) But that narrows the gap in difficulty versus other scorers, rather than closing it all the way.

[Fencer reregistered]

his ceiling is superstar, top 10 player in the league. he is already the best player on the celtics and i believe by the end of the season almost no one will be able to deny it.

Tatum and Brown have leapfrogged each other several times already. I thought it wouldn't happen again, but Tatum again is having a slow-ish start to the year -- by his earlier-this-calendar-year standards -- while Brown has taken a large leap forward.

I’m not sure what you mean but in my opinion Tatum is the superior player and it’s not even a question. Brown more consistently maxes out his capability.....in that way there may be some back and forth. However, the team is simply much better when Tatum is on the floor and a near disaster when he is not regardless of whether he is misfiring or turning it over. I love Brown and have no idea what his ceiling is will be. I have no idea how their careers will turn out or if they will be derailed by injury etc. Right now, Tatum is already a generational player and could be in the MVP conversation for years to come.

Maxing out one's capability is NOT trivial. Part of that is conditioning. Alpha scorers with great defensive talent tend to let their defensive effort lapse. Pierce did that his whole career, repeatedly shocking people with his clutch defense because his non-clutch defense was rarely special. Kobe and Lebron (after they aged a bit) are more famous examples. Etc.

[PtruthP34]

When the Spurs were working on trades for Kawhi Leonard the deal they wanted most was a deal with Boston that included Jaylen Brown as the centerpiece going back. RC Bufford & Pop were so high on Jaylen Brown and felt like he would develop and be their Kawhi replacement in due time. Boston entertained the trade but in talking with Kawhi's camp there was obvious interest in playing close to home in LA. As we know, long story short, Danny decided not to do the deal.

So I pose this question to the board. Has the best trades that Danny Ainge has ever made been the NON trades including Jaylen Brown & Jayson Tatum? I feel like we are witnessing first hand what Toronto COULD have had in McGrady/Carter years ago. Perhaps Boston's version is even better!

I've said it on here before and I'll say it again. Boston will win championships with Tatum/Brown as 2 of their best players so long as they surround these guys with the right pieces. Of course health factors in too.

I'll also admit that Jaylen may end up being even better then I thought he could be. Granted he's coming off a 42pt in 3 quarter performance so we're all feeling great about him, but the way he continuously improves each year is very reminiscent of Kawhi Leonard.

Jayson Tatum & Jaylen Brown are major problems for the rest of the league. The Celtics are in a great spot with these two leading the way

I think the Jays could exceed Carter/McGrady only with health and longevity. Those guys at their peak - which was at ages 23-24 - were both at higher skill level than Tatum is now and more both more athletically gifted than Brown, IMO. I do think Tatum and Brown have performed at incredibly well in playoffs at such a young age however and their willingness to play defense at such a high level may be the “IT” factor that Carter and McGrady may not have had.

I compare JT and JB to Carter/McGrady the same way I’d compare Carter/McGrady to Pierce. What they lack in offensive firepower and raw athleticism they make up for in defense and “winning basketball”.

[sam_I_am]

Tatum and Brown have leapfrogged each other several times already. I thought it wouldn't happen again, but Tatum again is having a slow-ish start to the year -- by his earlier-this-calendar-year standards -- while Brown has taken a large leap forward.

I’m not sure what you mean but in my opinion Tatum is the superior player and it’s not even a question. Brown more consistently maxes out his capability.....in that way there may be some back and forth. However, the team is simply much better when Tatum is on the floor and a near disaster when he is not regardless of whether he is misfiring or turning it over. I love Brown and have no idea what his ceiling is will be. I have no idea how their careers will turn out or if they will be derailed by injury etc. Right now, Tatum is already a generational player and could be in the MVP conversation for years to come.

Maxing out one's capability is NOT trivial. Part of that is conditioning. Alpha scorers with great defensive talent tend to let their defensive effort lapse. Pierce did that his whole career, repeatedly shocking people with his clutch defense because his non-clutch defense was rarely special. Kobe and Lebron (after they aged a bit) are more famous examples. Etc.

It’s partly why Giannis is such a great regular season warrior and a bit of a playoff disappointment. It is to be commended to give maximum effort all the time but sometimes it means there isn’t another level to tap into when the playoffs come. In Jaylen’s defense, he does seem to perform better offensively in clutch playoff situations even when his effort level hasn’t really changed. That is a unique quality too.

[Fencer reregistered]

I think Jaylen's passing is what Tatum's became a while ago -- he plans a particular pass as the end of an action.

I think they also each have enough talent that two possible good outcomes to an action (shoot or pass) is often enough.

[FeedReed]

Tatum looked superior last season mainly because his points were scored with a much higher degree of difficulty than Brown's.

that’s because tatum lives for taking bad, forced shots. really nothing to be proud of considering he misses a lot more than he makes.

I wouldn't go to that extreme. Tatum faces much more defensive challenge than Brown does. The "gravity" argument that everybody else's scoring benefits from Tatum's presence has a lot of merit.

Sometimes Tatum also benefits from more offense scheming to spring him free. (E.g., he uses Theis seals a lot more than Brown does, and he's more likely to get a double screen than Brown is.) But that narrows the gap in difficulty versus other scorers, rather than closing it all the way.

ok, i don’t want to keep bashing tatum, but good to see that perk agrees with me on brown being the best on the team.

[BostonCouchGM]

yikes. What a disastrous 4th quarter with the game on the line. I'm seeing him quite capable of scoring against the scrubs teams defend him with so his scoring numbers will be high as he gets 20 shots per night but 2 assists against 4 TOs? How? When you have the ball that much, and when you beat scrubs off the dribble and help comes, there should be an easy 5-6 assists a night if you have any semblance of BBIQ.

Tatum has earned the "chucker" jabs but now that Jaylen has upped his FGAs it's clear he is as well. And neither of them are doing enough on the defensive end to make up for their lack of playmaking. These two players are not a good enough #1 and #2 to win a championship. Whether that's because Tatum isn't a true #1 or because Jaylen is actually a #3 doesn't matter. Currently it's not getting it done.

[BostonCouchGM]

that’s because tatum lives for taking bad, forced shots. really nothing to be proud of considering he misses a lot more than he makes.

I wouldn't go to that extreme. Tatum faces much more defensive challenge than Brown does. The "gravity" argument that everybody else's scoring benefits from Tatum's presence has a lot of merit.

Sometimes Tatum also benefits from more offense scheming to spring him free. (E.g., he uses Theis seals a lot more than Brown does, and he's more likely to get a double screen than Brown is.) But that narrows the gap in difficulty versus other scorers, rather than closing it all the way.

ok, i don’t want to keep bashing tatum, but good to see that perk agrees with me on brown being the best on the team.

Perks is legit one of the dumbest human beings on Earth. Glad you two agree on something

[keevsnick1]

yikes. What a disastrous 4th quarter with the game on the line. I'm seeing him quite capable of scoring against the scrubs teams defend him with so his scoring numbers will be high as he gets 20 shots per night but 2 assists against 4 TOs? How? When you have the ball that much, and when you beat scrubs off the dribble and help comes, there should be an easy 5-6 assists a night if you have any semblance of BBIQ.

Tatum has earned the "chucker" jabs but now that Jaylen has upped his FGAs it's clear he is as well. And neither of them are doing enough on the defensive end to make up for their lack of playmaking. These two players are not a good enough #1 and #2 to win a championship. Whether that's because Tatum isn't a true #1 or because Jaylen is actually a #3 doesn't matter. Currently it's not getting it done.

You're embarrassing yourself.

[FeedReed]

yikes. What a disastrous 4th quarter with the game on the line. I'm seeing him quite capable of scoring against the scrubs teams defend him with so his scoring numbers will be high as he gets 20 shots per night but 2 assists against 4 TOs? How? When you have the ball that much, and when you beat scrubs off the dribble and help comes, there should be an easy 5-6 assists a night if you have any semblance of BBIQ.

Tatum has earned the "chucker" jabs but now that Jaylen has upped his FGAs it's clear he is as well. And neither of them are doing enough on the defensive end to make up for their lack of playmaking. These two players are not a good enough #1 and #2 to win a championship. Whether that's because Tatum isn't a true #1 or because Jaylen is actually a #3 doesn't matter. Currently it's not getting it done.

clearly you’re a brown hater, which is fine. he still shot 60% tonight, 25 and 9, 3 steals, 2 blocks it’s a nice line and for the 5th time in 6 games he was the best player on the team. he didn’t get it done when it counted though, that’s for sure. they all really choked tonight. also i totally dispute calling brown a chucker. tatums a chucker because he frequently chucks up bad shots, while brown rarely does.

[Fencer reregistered]

that’s because tatum lives for taking bad, forced shots. really nothing to be proud of considering he misses a lot more than he makes.

I wouldn't go to that extreme. Tatum faces much more defensive challenge than Brown does. The "gravity" argument that everybody else's scoring benefits from Tatum's presence has a lot of merit.

Sometimes Tatum also benefits from more offense scheming to spring him free. (E.g., he uses Theis seals a lot more than Brown does, and he's more likely to get a double screen than Brown is.) But that narrows the gap in difficulty versus other scorers, rather than closing it all the way.

ok, i don’t want to keep bashing tatum, but good to see that perk agrees with me on brown being the best on the team.

It's getting to be a Betty/Veronica kind of thing. I'm currently going with Betty Brown over Veronica Tatum.

[Ill News]

I wouldn't go to that extreme. Tatum faces much more defensive challenge than Brown does. The "gravity" argument that everybody else's scoring benefits from Tatum's presence has a lot of merit.

Sometimes Tatum also benefits from more offense scheming to spring him free. (E.g., he uses Theis seals a lot more than Brown does, and he's more likely to get a double screen than Brown is.) But that narrows the gap in difficulty versus other scorers, rather than closing it all the way.

ok, i don’t want to keep bashing tatum, but good to see that perk agrees with me on brown being the best on the team.

It's getting to be a Betty/Veronica kind of thing. I'm currently going with Betty Brown over Veronica Tatum.

I clearly prefer Brown, but this really doesn't have to be a Tatum vs. Brown thing. I know Tatum is way more talented, I just wish them both success and hope they grow together as a duo that will terrorize the league. Brown's getting there, Tatum already seemed like he did but he's just inconsistent. Really needs to cut his hair.

Oh, and I'm tuning out that couch troll from now on. He's clearly a Brown hater, and feeding him won't do anyone any good

[Floody100]

yikes. What a disastrous 4th quarter with the game on the line. I'm seeing him quite capable of scoring against the scrubs teams defend him with so his scoring numbers will be high as he gets 20 shots per night but 2 assists against 4 TOs? How? When you have the ball that much, and when you beat scrubs off the dribble and help comes, there should be an easy 5-6 assists a night if you have any semblance of BBIQ.

Tatum has earned the "chucker" jabs but now that Jaylen has upped his FGAs it's clear he is as well. And neither of them are doing enough on the defensive end to make up for their lack of playmaking. These two players are not a good enough #1 and #2 to win a championship. Whether that's because Tatum isn't a true #1 or because Jaylen is actually a #3 doesn't matter. Currently it's not getting it done.

6th in PPG, 5th in PER ...
Rent-free ...

[sam_I_am]

as a reminder to Jaylen fanboys overly excited and not at all objective after his big game against a G-League level team without its two best players, and doesn't want to give him up for James Harden. James Harden has 89 40 point games. He averaged 36 pts a game for a season. He's a top 5 NBA player and one of the best scorers in the history of basketball.

"he will consistently be a top 12-15 player in his prime years."

yikes

Gordon Hayward only had 14 pts. and a loss against that G-league team. I don’t understand. I thought anybody could shoot 15-21 and score 40+ against them.

[BostonCouchGM]

yikes. What a disastrous 4th quarter with the game on the line. I'm seeing him quite capable of scoring against the scrubs teams defend him with so his scoring numbers will be high as he gets 20 shots per night but 2 assists against 4 TOs? How? When you have the ball that much, and when you beat scrubs off the dribble and help comes, there should be an easy 5-6 assists a night if you have any semblance of BBIQ.

Tatum has earned the "chucker" jabs but now that Jaylen has upped his FGAs it's clear he is as well. And neither of them are doing enough on the defensive end to make up for their lack of playmaking. These two players are not a good enough #1 and #2 to win a championship. Whether that's because Tatum isn't a true #1 or because Jaylen is actually a #3 doesn't matter. Currently it's not getting it done.

6th in PPG, 5th in PER ...
Rent-free ...

a) it's a small sample size and I"m embarrassed for you to be pointing out PER after a handful of games lmao b) he's actually 6th in PER c) PER might be the most useless stat in basketball so of course you'd use it

Rent Free is when fanboys respond to anyone and everyone daring to suggest their favorite athlete has glaring flaws. So NOW PER is important? Weird that. It wasn't so important these past few years when people pointed it out as one of reasons he wasn't an all-star. That's an interesting 180.

2019-69th
2018-116th
2017-130th

[BostonCouchGM]

as a reminder to Jaylen fanboys overly excited and not at all objective after his big game against a G-League level team without its two best players, and doesn't want to give him up for James Harden. James Harden has 89 40 point games. He averaged 36 pts a game for a season. He's a top 5 NBA player and one of the best scorers in the history of basketball.

"he will consistently be a top 12-15 player in his prime years."

yikes

Gordon Hayward only had 14 pts. and a loss against that G-league team. I don’t understand. I thought anybody could shoot 15-21 and score 40+ against them.

lol so triggered. Hayward is only averaging 16 FGA. He's also their first option and faces better defenders like Tatum does for us. Reading comprehension is hard. I said any SG with any talent, or most any player for that matter, getting 20 shots per game (not isolated performances) should score 25-30 ppg.

I just happen to have stats (not emotions like his fanboys) to back it up

2020

Beal-22 FGA 31 PPG
McCollum-22 FGA 28 PPG
Tatum-21 FGA 24 PPG
Kyrie-20 FGA 21 PPG
Harden-20 FGA 37 PPG
Steph-20 FGA 26 PPG

anyone getting close to 20 FGA is going to put up numbers. NBA history is littered with guys who were suddenly thrust into starter's roles or good players putting up great numbers because they have more touches. This isn't some new made up phenomenon.

Remember people laughed at Jerami Grant and his contract. How dare he want a bigger role. Turns out that means more shots and more scoring. Go figure.

2020

Grant 18 FGA-23 PPG up from 9 FGA-12 PPG
Wood 19 FGA-25 PPG up from 8 FGA-13 PPG

rent free indeed

[Floody100]

yikes. What a disastrous 4th quarter with the game on the line. I'm seeing him quite capable of scoring against the scrubs teams defend him with so his scoring numbers will be high as he gets 20 shots per night but 2 assists against 4 TOs? How? When you have the ball that much, and when you beat scrubs off the dribble and help comes, there should be an easy 5-6 assists a night if you have any semblance of BBIQ.

Tatum has earned the "chucker" jabs but now that Jaylen has upped his FGAs it's clear he is as well. And neither of them are doing enough on the defensive end to make up for their lack of playmaking. These two players are not a good enough #1 and #2 to win a championship. Whether that's because Tatum isn't a true #1 or because Jaylen is actually a #3 doesn't matter. Currently it's not getting it done.

6th in PPG, 5th in PER ...
Rent-free ...

a) it's a small sample size and I"m embarrassed for you to be pointing out PER after a handful of games lmao b) he's actually 6th in PER c) PER might be the most useless stat in basketball so of course you'd use it

Rent Free is when fanboys respond to anyone and everyone daring to suggest their favorite athlete has glaring flaws. So NOW PER is important? Weird that. It wasn't so important these past few years when people pointed it out as one of reasons he wasn't an all-star. That's an interesting 180.

2019-69th
2018-116th
2017-130th

Oh look at that, he improves year by year ...

[sam_I_am]

as a reminder to Jaylen fanboys overly excited and not at all objective after his big game against a G-League level team without its two best players, and doesn't want to give him up for James Harden. James Harden has 89 40 point games. He averaged 36 pts a game for a season. He's a top 5 NBA player and one of the best scorers in the history of basketball.

"he will consistently be a top 12-15 player in his prime years."

yikes

Gordon Hayward only had 14 pts. and a loss against that G-league team. I don’t understand. I thought anybody could shoot 15-21 and score 40+ against them.

lol so triggered. Hayward is only averaging 16 FGA. He's also their first option and faces better defenders like Tatum does for us. Reading comprehension is hard. I said any SG with any talent, or most any player for that matter, getting 20 shots per game (not isolated performances) should score 25-30 ppg.

I just happen to have stats (not emotions like his fanboys) to back it up

2020

Beal-22 FGA 31 PPG
McCollum-22 FGA 28 PPG
Tatum-21 FGA 24 PPG
Kyrie-20 FGA 21 PPG
Harden-20 FGA 37 PPG
Steph-20 FGA 26 PPG

anyone getting close to 20 FGA is going to put up numbers. NBA history is littered with guys who were suddenly thrust into starter's roles or good players putting up great numbers because they have more touches. This isn't some new made up phenomenon.

Remember people laughed at Jerami Grant and his contract. How dare he want a bigger role. Turns out that means more shots and more scoring. Go figure.

2020

Grant 18 FGA-23 PPG up from 9 FGA-12 PPG
Wood 19 FGA-25 PPG up from 8 FGA-13 PPG

rent free indeed

Your rent free joke is as stupid as your post. GH is “only” averaging 16 shots but Jaylen is a high usage gunner at 18? Really???

You are trying too hard.