What is Jayson Tatum's ceiling?

[Jaqua92]

First Post since joining this message board. Glad to see so many Boston fans in one place.. Obviously way behind on topics.
As far as Tatum goes, his ceiling is consistent 1st team all NBA player.. and Super Star status IMO..

People have different values for what makes a Star-Super Star... Mine is, can he take over a game?.. In a Big game?? and in crunch time? and I have YES for all 3.. Not many players can do that.. and deliver regularly.. JT is still early on that part of his career but already shown ridiculous promise in that regard..

*AND this is all while being an elite level defender.. On the man, off the ball, and in today's game, switch-ability..

Welcome man.

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[playa-hater]

For the Luka - JT comparison discussed already.. I see how many people/posters put a BIG value on numbers. To which Luka>Tatum.. but that is/can be so deceiving.. Luka is an extremely High Usage player vs Tatum, who although Is Boston's top option and Go-to player, yet still has to share that ability with other former and current top options. In Kemba and Hayward and probably Brown whom is deserving as well. So numbers will Not necessarily tell me the whole story..

what I see, with my eyes is :

Luka is one of if NOT the best passer in the NBA right now... No one is better at getting "role players" open looks than Luka.. He makes his teammates better and that is NOT unrecognized and undervalued by me.. JT by comparison does NOT elevate roles player much. That is the one area JT must get better at, since they are/will double team him in crunch time.. Luka also has the very nice ability to stay under control and finish near the rim with layups and floaters.. more efficient than Tatum, though Tatum's athletic nature at tikes displays a higher ceiling on that regard.

But what Tatum has is a currently higher variety of Go to Moves, with a much more consistent 3 pointer, mid range pull ups, and FT pct.. Tatum also has shown, this entire year, a much better ability to rise up in crunch time and in Big games.. Before Luka hit his first Big 3 vs LAC, it should be reminded that his Step back 3 this entire season was a low pct shot that he missed often, I think a total of 0-10 in 1 possession games with under a minute to go..

all this with Tatum being a HUGE factor in why Boston has a top ranked defense (with Smart and Brown) all while the opposite can be said for Doncic.. Perimeter defense and switch-ability is everything in today's game.. So that alone will let Tatum have a big impact on the game even if he is off. Can not say the same for Luka.

Conclusion.. I don't have a problem with fans saying Luka>Tatum.. But I do wonder who many fans really take a close look at everything and not just the box-scores.. I am not trading Tatum for anyone but Giannis right now.

sorry for the long reply.. just trying to catch up..

[playa-hater]

First Post since joining this message board. Glad to see so many Boston fans in one place.. Obviously way behind on topics.
As far as Tatum goes, his ceiling is consistent 1st team all NBA player.. and Super Star status IMO..

People have different values for what makes a Star-Super Star... Mine is, can he take over a game?.. In a Big game?? and in crunch time? and I have YES for all 3.. Not many players can do that.. and deliver regularly.. JT is still early on that part of his career but already shown ridiculous promise in that regard..

*AND this is all while being an elite level defender.. On the man, off the ball, and in today's game, switch-ability..

Welcome man.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

thanks!!

[ConstableGeneva]

Tatum 4th in Most Improved Player voting.

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[Floody100]

Tatum 4th in Most Improved Player voting.

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How Ingram gets more votes than Tatum is beyond me

[NormanDale]

Allen Iverson was tiny and inefficient. Luka is big and efficient. That couldn't be a more offbase comparison. Luka isn't a great defender, but he's not a liability either. Hanging your hat on the fact that he hasn't won as a second year player is crazy. Any GM would take Luka to build around over probably anyone in the league right now.

Luka is a massive defensive liability. The only reason why this isn't more apparent is because there's clearly a league mandate preventing teams from going after "stars" when they're on defense. Otherwise, you'd see teams go at the same guy over and over until they fouled out. The fact that IT, Luka, Steph, etc never foul out is proof of this. Luka also shoots 31% from three and has close to 5 turnovers a game. How is that efficient? Again, he's able to get separation because in today's NBA they allow carries, push offs and travels. I suppose I should just accept this is the new normal but it's hard when you've watched the NBA since 1980 and see it becoming a completely different game. It's like allowing everyone in baseball to do steroids and juicing the ball. That's what they're doing. None of these guys could do any of this if they called the game by the rules. The reason it looks like players were so much less athletic back in the day wasn't because they weren't amazing athletes, it's because they couldn't palm the ball, travel and push defenders off them. That's why the outliers like Pistol Pete, Bird, Magic and MJ were so special. They could do these amazing things while playing within the rules.

So yeah, based on how the game is officiated now, you'd absolutely build around Luka. But as far as who you'd take based on how basketball was officiated up until about 2000, you'd want dozens of other guys.

Hahaha this is one of the most batsh*t things I've seen on here in a while.

[Feed Your Head]

Best player in the league. Don’t try to convince me of otherwise.

[Jaqua92]

So, Tatum is 6'10 now, right?

He seems at least an inch taller than when he came into the league.

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[playa-hater]

Best player in the league. Don’t try to convince me of otherwise.

Damn, I only said Super Star... Should have said Best player as well.

F Luka and his ball dominating offense with No defense,,, Tatum takes over games better all while making BIG impact on defense..

[sam_I_am]

Is Tatum already top 5 Celtic all time? Obviously he needs titles and 8-10 more seasons under his belt to deserve that ranking. But right now where does he rank compared to Celtics at peak? Russell, Bird are locked in at top 2 right now. Then you have Hondo, Cousy, McHale, Parish and Pierce. Ray and KG in ‘08 deserve mention too.

I think he is already better than peak Paul Pierce in almost all aspects of game except finishing at rim and passing...which is shocking for a guy at age 22.

I truly believe the ranking will be Russell-Bird-Tatum-Hondo-McHale-Pierce very soon. (KG probably 3rd if you only count best year)

[playa-hater]

Is Tatum already top 5 Celtic all time? Obviously he needs titles and 8-10 more seasons under his belt to deserve that ranking. But right now where does he rank compared to Celtics at peak? Russell, Bird are locked in at top 2 right now. Then you have Hondo, Cousy, McHale, Parish and Pierce. Ray and KG in ‘08 deserve mention too.

I think he is already better than peak Paul Pierce in almost all aspects of game except finishing at rim and passing...which is shocking for a guy at age 22.

I truly believe the ranking will be Russell-Bird-Tatum-Hondo-McHale-Pierce very soon. (KG probably 3rd if you only count best year)

Tatum's Ceiling is definitely higher than Pierce and Hondo.. and his current play is probably better as well.

McHale was so damn tough, so I would say a tie at best..

[themoneyteam2]

Read on Twitter

JuSt a HoT FeBrUaRy

[celtics543]

Is Tatum already top 5 Celtic all time? Obviously he needs titles and 8-10 more seasons under his belt to deserve that ranking. But right now where does he rank compared to Celtics at peak? Russell, Bird are locked in at top 2 right now. Then you have Hondo, Cousy, McHale, Parish and Pierce. Ray and KG in ‘08 deserve mention too.

I think he is already better than peak Paul Pierce in almost all aspects of game except finishing at rim and passing...which is shocking for a guy at age 22.

I truly believe the ranking will be Russell-Bird-Tatum-Hondo-McHale-Pierce very soon. (KG probably 3rd if you only count best year)

Let's slow down. How about we let him have a few seasons of sustained great play and win a title before we put him over Pierce. I know we forget quickly but Pierce just gave us 15 years of superstar play and is currently second in total points as a Celtic. Tatum has had a great February and a great bubble playoff so far. I'm excited about his potential but he's not in the top 10 Celtics of all time yet.

Russell, Bird, Cousy, Hondo, Cowens, McHale, Parish, Pierce, KG, Heinsohn, Jo Jo, Sam Jones, etc all won titles and a bunch won MVP or defensive player of the year awards. Maybe a team like the Hornets can have a third year player be in their top five all time but we're the Celtics.

[Fencer reregistered]

I also posted this link in tonight's VC thread, but it raises an interesting point. Namely, Tatum is making decisions a lot faster than he used to. Previously, when he made good passes they seemed to stem from carefully pre-planned moves. Now, he just takes what's there, quickly.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/how-jayson-tatum-lit-marcus-smarts-fourth-quarter-fuse

And the same may be said about his scoring moves, of course.

[BostonCouchGM]

For the Luka - JT comparison discussed already.. I see how many people/posters put a BIG value on numbers. To which Luka>Tatum.. but that is/can be so deceiving.. Luka is an extremely High Usage player vs Tatum, who although Is Boston's top option and Go-to player, yet still has to share that ability with other former and current top options. In Kemba and Hayward and probably Brown whom is deserving as well. So numbers will Not necessarily tell me the whole story..

what I see, with my eyes is :

Luka is one of if NOT the best passer in the NBA right now... No one is better at getting "role players" open looks than Luka.. He makes his teammates better and that is NOT unrecognized and undervalued by me.. JT by comparison does NOT elevate roles player much. That is the one area JT must get better at, since they are/will double team him in crunch time.. Luka also has the very nice ability to stay under control and finish near the rim with layups and floaters.. more efficient than Tatum, though Tatum's athletic nature at tikes displays a higher ceiling on that regard.

But what Tatum has is a currently higher variety of Go to Moves, with a much more consistent 3 pointer, mid range pull ups, and FT pct.. Tatum also has shown, this entire year, a much better ability to rise up in crunch time and in Big games.. Before Luka hit his first Big 3 vs LAC, it should be reminded that his Step back 3 this entire season was a low pct shot that he missed often, I think a total of 0-10 in 1 possession games with under a minute to go..

all this with Tatum being a HUGE factor in why Boston has a top ranked defense (with Smart and Brown) all while the opposite can be said for Doncic.. Perimeter defense and switch-ability is everything in today's game.. So that alone will let Tatum have a big impact on the game even if he is off. Can not say the same for Luka.

Conclusion.. I don't have a problem with fans saying Luka>Tatum.. But I do wonder who many fans really take a close look at everything and not just the box-scores.. I am not trading Tatum for anyone but Giannis right now.

sorry for the long reply.. just trying to catch up..

I feel like Tatum is way ahead of where Giannis was at 22 y/o. Like Giannis he's also improved every season both with his game and physically. Giannis has now maxed out his body. Any upside will have to come from him improving his FT and 3 pt shot. But I just don't see it happening. And when you get in the playoffs and don't have these skills teams can game plan against you. Teams cannot contain Tatum right now. And he still has physical upside. Clearly it's not as high as Giannis due to Giannis being a legit 6'10", long and athletic. But there's still upside to be had. If Tatum puts on another 10-15 pounds of muscle he'll start finishing through and over guys when he penetrates. He will be the most polished offensive weapon in the game. And it'll make him a DPOY candidate. So DO you take Giannis over Tatum? The thing is, if Giannis was to become a 80% FT shooter and a 35% three point shooter he has a chance to be top 5 all-time. That's his max. Tatum maxed, with added size, better playmaking? Kobe. We have a good one folks. It'd be tough to trade him for even Giannis. I want him in green for his whole career like the other Celtics's greats.

[ThumbsUpBaby]

Now? **** it. Top 10 player of all-time. Yeah I said it.

[Fencer reregistered]

Now? **** it. Top 10 player of all-time. Yeah I said it.

I doubt it. Almost everybody on most top 10 lists had a better basketball body than Tatum, usually with only two exceptions: Magic and Bird. And their bodies aren't far behind his, while their court vision far exceeded what he's likely to grow into.

[Homerclease]

Is current Tatum better than prime Paul Pierce?

[celtics543]

Is current Tatum better than prime Paul Pierce?

Are you asking if Tatum has been as good in the 14 bubble games as Paul Pierce was for 15 years? Let's be excited about how Tatum has played without also slandering one of the top players in the history of the franchise. Looking at advanced stats Pierce's best seasons were better than Tatum's 19-20 season. Need to factor in the slower style of play, lack of emphasis on the 3pt shot, and the awful teams Pierce had around him until KG got here.

Paul Pierce today would be better than Tatum. Pierce put up great advanced stats in an era where that didn't happen much because of the style of play. Hero ball shouldn't lead to great advanced stats, the pace and space era should because coaches have figured out how to maximize efficiency.

[Fencer reregistered]

Is current Tatum better than prime Paul Pierce?

It's close. Tatum's defensive effort is more consistent. Pierce's rebounding effort was more consistent. Tatum being in Pierce's league as a pseuo-PG is so recent that I don't give him full credit for it.

Pierce bulled his way through double- and triple-teams more consistently than Tatum does or has to. That makes his uneven defensive effort also seem more excusable. So I'll still favor prime Pierce over current Tatum. But it's a lot closer than I expected it to be this soon.

In simplest terms, Pierce looked comparably good despite getting less help, and the difference in help matters.