Trade Ideas Thread

[djFan71]

I think 100proof's original Dallas idea is still my favorite if Hayward would agree to go there (and extend if they wanted, and THJ agreed, etc).

BOS: THJ, #18 for Hayward
DAL: Hayward for THJ, Wright, #18
ATL: Wright for cap space, fake 2nd.

4 picks in one draft may not be ideal (and no spots without other moves), so you could:
- Route #18 to ATL instead and get their lotto-protected 2021. 2022 fallback to either best of ATL or OKC that's not lottery.
- Send 14 & 18 to get 6 this year.
- Find some other team to do pick deals with.
OR....

THJ, 14, 18, Poirier to DET for #7 & Snell. Move up and saves you even more money.
Then you'd have the full non-taxpayer MLE as well.

Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Theis
Langford, Snell, G Williams, Kanter,
Edwards, R Williams
#7, #26, #30, full MLE

I have that as $132.3M. Depending on the exact amount of the lux tax, we could be under. If not, don't use the full MLE amount, stay either well below or just shy of it to make sure we push the repeater another year.

I am not opposed to keeping THJ outright as the starting SG. I mean he can defend his position and he can hit 3s at a high rate. Given the attention that Tatum/Kemba and Brown create, he could be lethal in that catch and shoot role.

Me neither. The original with keeping THJ is great.
I only did the Snell follow on to get more cap space & #7. And why stop at one fake trade when you can do 2?

[hugepatsfan]

As a follow up to that Dallas deal, while I agree that THJ would be a nice role player here, I still like Aaron Gordon. You could maybe do THJ's expiring + #14 or #18 to ORL for Gordon. Then use the MLE on Ibaka or Gasol as a stretch 5 with defense. Use #26 and/or #30 to dump salary (Kanter, Poirier etc.)

Kemba / Smart
Brown / Langford
Tatum / Semi
Gordon / G Williams
Ibaka or Gasol / Theis / R Williams

Round out the roster with whichever of #14 or #18 we have left after the Ibaka trade, Tacko, Waters and one more 2nd round rookie.

[100proof]

As a follow up to that Dallas deal, while I agree that THJ would be a nice role player here, I still like Aaron Gordon. You could maybe do THJ's expiring + #14 or #18 to ORL for Gordon. Then use the MLE on Ibaka or Gasol as a stretch 5 with defense. Use #26 and/or #30 to dump salary (Kanter, Poirier etc.)

Kemba / Smart
Brown / Langford
Tatum / Semi
Gordon / G Williams
Ibaka or Gasol / Theis / R Williams

Round out the roster with whichever of #14 or #18 we have left after the Ibaka trade, Tacko, Waters and one more 2nd round rookie.

I think Gordon would be a really good add. Young, foolishly athletic, good deal, would be an awesome 4th option PF on this team.

[100proof]

https://tradenba.com/trades/cq_h41_5T

The Dallas and Boston idea with a new twist on other pieces.

THJ, Edwards and Brooklyn 2nd to Orlando

Wright, Kanter, TImelord and #26 to Indiana
Upgrade defense on wings, upgrade front court scoring/rebounding and a young defensive bigman and another 1st round pick

Myles Turner and Gordon to Boston.

Kemba/Smart
Brown/Romeo
Tatum/Semi
Gordon/Grant
Turner/Theis

[hugepatsfan]

That's not enough for Turner. He's critical for their defense and they're a win now team. Don't think he's realistically attainable for us. Maybe next year if Oladipo walks and they shift into rebuilding mode. But even then, they'd probably get bigger offers than what we have.

[100proof]

That's not enough for Turner. He's critical for their defense and they're a win now team. Don't think he's realistically attainable for us. Maybe next year if Oladipo walks and they shift into rebuilding mode. But even then, they'd probably get bigger offers than what we have.

What would that part of the deal look like?

Langford, Wright, Timelord and #26?

[djFan71]

I think I'm leaning to not replacing a traded Hayward with another 4th stud vet. Keep the picks, use exceptions to fill gaps. I'm not sure a Gordon or Turner type is needed. We'd have 3 stars in Tatum, Jaylen, Kemba. Smart as the 4th big contributor. Theis/Kainter/exception vets. And picks on rookie deals. Getting cheap contributions from draft picks and exceptions would be more sustainable financially. And if you hit on a pick or 2, potentially better basketball wise.

[Bleeding Green]

Wow you guys really like THJ. He's like a Jordan Clarkson player to me. Fine for the 8th guy who can swing a game if he's hot, otherwise his ass is on the bench because he is a poor defender and doesn't really do anything else. OK shooter for his career at least.

[djFan71]

Wow you guys really like THJ. He's like a Jordan Clarkson player to me. Fine for the 8th guy who can swing a game if he's hot, otherwise his ass is on the bench because he is a poor defender and doesn't really do anything else. OK shooter for his career at least.

I think you're missing the point of acquiring him.

[hugepatsfan]

Wow you guys really like THJ. He's like a Jordan Clarkson player to me. Fine for the 8th guy who can swing a game if he's hot, otherwise his ass is on the bench because he is a poor defender and doesn't really do anything else. OK shooter for his career at least.

I think how much people like him needs context. People are proposing trade ideas of what to do if Hayward doesn't fit into the long term financial picture. People are saying if he's not here for the long term it makes sense to explore trades that break his deal down into multiple pieces. Improve our depth and flexibility (since it's easier to move those smaller deals in other trades). Hayward makes $34.2M so you're going to have to take back significant money if you do deal him.

The deal people are saying is that Hayward goes to Dallas for THJ and Delon Wright but then Wright goes to a 3rd team. That gives us enough room to use the full non tax payer's extension. THJ's expiring deal is easier to package with #14 for a better veteran if we want. It's just a suggestion that instead of Hayward as a super #4 option, you move it for a few pieces that improve overall depth.

[Parliament10]

I think I'm leaning to not replacing a traded Hayward with another 4th stud vet. Keep the picks, use exceptions to fill gaps. I'm not sure a Gordon or Turner type is needed. We'd have 3 stars in Tatum, Jaylen, Kemba. Smart as the 4th big contributor. Theis/Kainter/exception vets. And picks on rookie deals. Getting cheap contributions from draft picks and exceptions would be more sustainable financially. And if you hit on a pick or 2, potentially better basketball wise.

I Agreed with this, in part.
We don't need another person of Hayward's caliber. 4 Stars seem to just cause waste.

We're better with having two lesser players fill the talent level that Hayward provides.
I can see a place where better options at both, PF and at Center are more beneficial.

[Bleeding Green]

Wow you guys really like THJ. He's like a Jordan Clarkson player to me. Fine for the 8th guy who can swing a game if he's hot, otherwise his ass is on the bench because he is a poor defender and doesn't really do anything else. OK shooter for his career at least.

I think you're missing the point of acquiring him.

I am. I see a much worse team, one that is ascending and has title goals at the expense of saving the owners some tax money. It's not 2013 where the team sucks and money matters to the team, this team should be contending for a decade and anything that reduces the talent should not be given any consideration.

[Curmudgeon]

LOL, Bain Capital can afford to pay some luxury tax. It's a sound investment if it produces a winner. Winning builds equity.

[djFan71]

Wow you guys really like THJ. He's like a Jordan Clarkson player to me. Fine for the 8th guy who can swing a game if he's hot, otherwise his ass is on the bench because he is a poor defender and doesn't really do anything else. OK shooter for his career at least.

I think you're missing the point of acquiring him.

I am. I see a much worse team, one that is ascending and has title goals at the expense of saving the owners some tax money. It's not 2013 where the team sucks and money matters to the team, this team should be contending for a decade and anything that reduces the talent should not be given any consideration.

We've both said that we agree the most likely scenario is Hayward is back. It's just spitballing options. If you stop at THJ for Hayward, sure the team is worse. But if you use the extra pick and lux tax space to add other players, maybe it's a better use of resources. hugepatsfans plans basically replace Hayward with A Gordon/Ibaka. Other ideas bring in different players or higher picks. #7 & MLE instead of Hayward. Etc. You can argue that those teams aren't as good as keeping Hayward, that's fine. But to tell us THJ isn't the answer isn't super useful.

[Bleeding Green]

Ok, you're right. Hayward is much better than all of those listed players. Trade him for someone better than him and I'm all game. MLE gets you players like Kanter. Ibaka is not a realistic MLE target. He's going to get the MLE the same way Gordon Hayward is going to get the MLE.

[djFan71]

Ok, you're right. Hayward is much better than all of those listed players. Trade him for someone better than him and I'm all game. MLE gets you players like Kanter. Ibaka is not a realistic MLE target. He's going to get the MLE the same way Gordon Hayward is going to get the MLE.

Better. Though, I'd quibble and say the goal is not to get a better player than Hayward, but a better team overall.
MLE-wise, we'd have the full non-tax payer's version rather than the tax payer one, so you step up from the Kanter level guys which is part of the idea. But I agree it's unlikely we get Ibaka for that.

[Bleeding Green]

Unlikely is wildly overselling it. He's 30 and having his best season of his career potentially. He's getting like 25 million or more. Horford last year was worse, older and got way more than that even. The problem with trading Hayward to open up an MLE slot is that you don't have a clear idea of who this mythical MLE player is and whether he would sign in Boston regardless.

[djFan71]

Unlikely is wildly overselling it. He's 30 and having his best season of his career potentially. He's getting like 25 million or more. Horford last year was worse, older and got way more than that even. The problem with trading Hayward to open up an MLE slot is that you don't have a clear idea of who this mythical MLE player is and whether he would sign in Boston regardless.

Yeah, that's why I don't prefer the A Gordon route. He requires a shooter at the 5 which we don't have and will be hard to get. My current favorite idea is this team which I still don't think is as good as the resign Hayward route (which, again, I think is what happens):

Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Theis
Langford, Snell, G Williams, Kanter,
Edwards, R Williams
#7: Okongwu or Hayes. Maybe Toppin.
#26, #30
Exception

Do the Dallas trade, then send THJ, 14, 18, Poirier to DET for #7 & Snell.


Exception:
If Hayes, then Harkless or Milsap or Jeff Green. Maybe Favors, Giles? Neither can shoot though.
If Okongwu, Wanamaker or don't use it and sign Waters instead.
You don't even need the full MLE on those guys. So, you have room to make trades at the deadline and take back salary.

I'm guessing you'll say the trade up is an overpay/stupid idea, and I might even agree. But I like the 2 guys I listed at 7. Snell is a good 3 & D wing. He's overpaid, but we'd be fine taking him on for his last year. You count on improvement from Langford, Grant. You count on #7 contributing. You don't have much time to play anyone else anyways. But you most likely get some more (s)wings at 26 & 30 and maybe one pops. Overall, that's a young, loaded team that can stay together for a while around Tatum.

I don't think any of us have come up with a plan that we definitively say is THE one that is 50x better than resigning Hayward. But, it's fun to play around with.

[Curmudgeon]

The Celtics don't need draft picks; they need shooters. I couldn't care less about pick #7. Picks outside the top 3 or 4 are just expectancies, like the hope that your rich uncle will die and leave you some money.

We salivated for years over the Memphis pick and what is it worth now, really?

[djFan71]

The Celtics don't need draft picks; they need shooters. I couldn't care less about pick #7. Picks outside the top 3 or 4 are just expectancies, like the hope that your rich uncle will die and leave you some money.

We salivated for years over the Memphis pick and what is it worth now, really?

Not as much as #7.

Hayward is one shooter. Snell is a better one - better 3pt %, obviously way less playmaking, other skills.
How are you adding more shooters if you keep Hayward? Draft is pretty much the only shot you get.