2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22

[Curmudgeon]

In a vacuum, I would vote for a big man stash. While you usually want to take the BPA, that makes less sense at the top of round 2 unless someone good slips.

The Celtics have three starting caliber guards (four if you count Brown as a guard) and two young pgs waiting in the wings (Madar, Davison). They have a promising wing playing in France (Begarin). What they do not have is a replacement for Horford. Bigs usually take longer to develop so you are almost certainly talking about a project and he might as well learn in Euroleague.

Alas, I do not see much out there. There's Hukporti playing in Melbourne who has seemingly been around forever, Nnaji in Barcelona and Ousmane Ndiaye, who is two years away at least. Maybe you try to move up to get Dereck Lively, but he's a project too.

[165bows]

In a vacuum, I would vote for a big man stash. While you usually want to take the BPA, that makes less sense at the top of round 2 unless someone good slips.

The Celtics have three starting caliber guards (four if you count Brown as a guard) and two young pgs waiting in the wings (Madar, Davison). They have a promising wing playing in France (Begarin). What they do not have is a replacement for Horford. Bigs usually take longer to develop so you are almost certainly talking about a project and he might as well learn in Euroleague.

Alas, I do not see much out there. There's Hukporti playing in Melbourne who has seemingly been around forever, Nnaji in Barcelona and Ousmane Ndiaye, who is two years away at least. Maybe you try to move up to get Dereck Lively, but he's a project too.

If they get anywhere near a shot at taking Lively gotta pull that trigger immediately.

[Hal14]

I swear, this is not my twitter account haha

Read on Twitter

[Duke4life831]

The player I really want is Lively. Best defensive anchor in the draft. Would help solve a lot of problems. May not even fall close enough to trade up for.. But until then he is my number one hopeful target.

Reminds me too much of WCS, who I never liked as a player. Great athlete, no offensive skills. The may difference will be if Lively loves basketball, if he is a hard worker and if wants to get better. Celtics have been good at finding out that info.

I will take Zack Eddy. Not anything close to Lively athletically, but he is bigger, stronger and has a really good post game. Also Eddy is a hard worker, there is no doubt about that following him for the past 2 seasons.

This you wont have to worry about with Lively. There is no question with motor, love for the game and so on with him. Ive stated before I wouldnt trade up to get him, but thats more just because I think you can find guys of his archetype late late 1st and early 2nd most rounds (even though he does seem to project as elite for his archetype).

But ya in high school his motor (on or off the court) was never in question and at Duke this was never in question. He had a slow start after his injury and was even bounced from the starting role for a few games, barely seeing double digit minutes. No change in demeanor on the bench, he was easily the biggest cheerleader on the bench all year long when he wasnt in the game.

But ya motor, work ethic and love for the game will be viewed as a huge plus for him, unlike WCS which this was in question since he was in high school. Plus Lively has freakish length that WCS didnt have. WCS was 6'11 with a 7'3 wingspan. Lively is legit 7' without shoes and has a 7'7 wingspan.

[165bows]

The player I really want is Lively. Best defensive anchor in the draft. Would help solve a lot of problems. May not even fall close enough to trade up for.. But until then he is my number one hopeful target.

Reminds me too much of WCS, who I never liked as a player. Great athlete, no offensive skills. The may difference will be if Lively loves basketball, if he is a hard worker and if wants to get better. Celtics have been good at finding out that info.

I will take Zack Eddy. Not anything close to Lively athletically, but he is bigger, stronger and has a really good post game. Also Eddy is a hard worker, there is no doubt about that following him for the past 2 seasons.

This you wont have to worry about with Lively. There is no question with motor, love for the game and so on with him. Ive stated before I wouldnt trade up to get him, but thats more just because I think you can find guys of his archetype late late 1st and early 2nd most rounds.

But ya in high school his motor (on or off the court) was never in question and at Duke this was never in question. He had a slow start after his injury and was even bounced from the starting role for a few games, barely seeing double digit minutes. No change in demeanor on the bench, he was easily the biggest cheerleader on the bench all year long when he wasnt in the game.

But ya motor, work ethic and love for the game will be viewed as a huge plus for him, unlike WCS which this was in question since he was in high school. Plus Lively has freakish length that WCS didnt have. WCS was 6'11 with a 7'3 wingspan. Lively is legit 7' without shoes and has a 7'7 wingspan.

That’s like an entire position bigger really. 2 1/2” of height and 4” of wingspan would move almost anybody up a slot.

[Celts17Pride]

Honestly, I'm more interested in getting a good wing player 6'6" - 6'9" with potential with the 33rd or 35th pick. Celtics can get any number of bigs with the vet min that will be serviceable. Celtics won 57 games this year with Kornet, Muscala and Griffin as backups.

[Duke4life831]

Reminds me too much of WCS, who I never liked as a player. Great athlete, no offensive skills. The may difference will be if Lively loves basketball, if he is a hard worker and if wants to get better. Celtics have been good at finding out that info.

I will take Zack Eddy. Not anything close to Lively athletically, but he is bigger, stronger and has a really good post game. Also Eddy is a hard worker, there is no doubt about that following him for the past 2 seasons.

This you wont have to worry about with Lively. There is no question with motor, love for the game and so on with him. Ive stated before I wouldnt trade up to get him, but thats more just because I think you can find guys of his archetype late late 1st and early 2nd most rounds.

But ya in high school his motor (on or off the court) was never in question and at Duke this was never in question. He had a slow start after his injury and was even bounced from the starting role for a few games, barely seeing double digit minutes. No change in demeanor on the bench, he was easily the biggest cheerleader on the bench all year long when he wasnt in the game.

But ya motor, work ethic and love for the game will be viewed as a huge plus for him, unlike WCS which this was in question since he was in high school. Plus Lively has freakish length that WCS didnt have. WCS was 6'11 with a 7'3 wingspan. Lively is legit 7' without shoes and has a 7'7 wingspan.

That’s like an entire position bigger really. 2 1/2” of height and 4” of wingspan would move almost anybody up a slot.

Ya and Im sure the standing reach difference will be quite a gap as well. Basically any other year after the combine Lively would be talked about as the freak of the draft. He just happens to be in the same draft as Wemby, so the talk for him will probably be quieter than it would most drafts.

Ill say this, Lively was in last year's class. I would have him higher than Duren, Williams and Kessler. Now Kessler with some 20/20 vision I would have it pretty close between those two (I was a little iffy about how well Kessler mobility would translate). But ya defensively Lively checks off every box. Elite rim protector, good on his rotations (not just to block shots), and while he isnt a freak with his vertical, his mobility especially his lateral agility for his size is elite.

Good rebounder as well (16 rebounds per 100, that number looks even more impressive with knowing he usually shared the court with Filipowski who is also an elite rebounder). But ya no denying the offense is junk though haha. He's DeAndre Jordan level of offensive player coming out of college. I know he hit a few 3s in high school and the form on that isnt horrible. But I would view if that ever came around that would just be a cherry on top. His value is basically all on the defensive end.

[Duke4life831]

Honestly, I'm more interested in getting a good wing player 6'6" - 6'9" with potential with the 33rd or 35th pick. Celtics can get any number of bigs with the vet min that will be serviceable. Celtics won 57 games this year with Kornet, Muscala and Griffin as backups.

I agree with this somewhat. There usually arent too many wings with high potential left at this part of the draft. While there is usually bigs with potential.

I would say this, if trading up to around the 15-20 area is something that is being kicked around. I would do that and look for a wing with higher potential, vs trading up to get a big.

[Celts17Pride]

Honestly, I'm more interested in getting a good wing player 6'6" - 6'9" with potential with the 33rd or 35th pick. Celtics can get any number of bigs with the vet min that will be serviceable. Celtics won 57 games this year with Kornet, Muscala and Griffin as backups.

I agree with this somewhat. There usually arent too many wings with high potential left at this part of the draft. While there is usually bigs with potential.

I would say this, if trading up to around the 15-20 area is something that is being kicked around. I would do that and look for a wing with higher potential, vs trading up to get a big.

I'm thinking guys like,

Bilal Coulibaly
Jaime Jaquez Jr.
Jalen Wilson
Keyontae Johnson (heart issue 2 yrs ago could be a drawback or a steal of some sort)

a few others that would be interesting to workout and take a look at for the Celtics.

[Duke4life831]

Honestly, I'm more interested in getting a good wing player 6'6" - 6'9" with potential with the 33rd or 35th pick. Celtics can get any number of bigs with the vet min that will be serviceable. Celtics won 57 games this year with Kornet, Muscala and Griffin as backups.

I agree with this somewhat. There usually arent too many wings with high potential left at this part of the draft. While there is usually bigs with potential.

I would say this, if trading up to around the 15-20 area is something that is being kicked around. I would do that and look for a wing with higher potential, vs trading up to get a big.

I'm thinking guys like,

Bilal Coulibaly
Jaime Jaquez Jr.
Colby Jones
Jalen Wilson
Keyontae Johnson (heart issue 2 yrs ago could be a drawback or a steal of some sort)

a few others that would be interesting to workout and take a look at for the Celtics.

Ya it should be a solid group this year, I just think value wise there is a better chance you get a lot more bang for you buck, with a big in that area. I just think you get bigs with higher ceilings with guys like

Bona
Holmes
Clowney
Vukcevic

I feel like if those guys hit, they will be the more impactful players. I also think there should be a solid group of wings going in that 15-22 range this year. So if my #1 prioity was to get a wing. I would probably go about it in this way.

#1: trade up somewhere in that 15-22 range
#2: stand pat and hope one of those guys projected to go there slips to me
#3: if none of them do, Id go with one of the bigs.

Again I think the wings that can be had in the 2nd round are solid. Just think far more bang for buck value wise with the bigs at that range.

[Celts17Pride]

I agree with this somewhat. There usually arent too many wings with high potential left at this part of the draft. While there is usually bigs with potential.

I would say this, if trading up to around the 15-20 area is something that is being kicked around. I would do that and look for a wing with higher potential, vs trading up to get a big.

I'm thinking guys like,

Bilal Coulibaly
Jaime Jaquez Jr.
Colby Jones
Jalen Wilson
Keyontae Johnson (heart issue 2 yrs ago could be a drawback or a steal of some sort)

a few others that would be interesting to workout and take a look at for the Celtics.

Ya it should be a solid group this year, I just think value wise there is a better chance you get a lot more bang for you buck, with a big in that area. I just think you get bigs with higher ceilings with guys like

Bona
Holmes
Clowney
Vukcevic

I feel like if those guys hit, they will be the more impactful players. I also think there should be a solid group of wings going in that 15-22 range this year. So if my #1 prioity was to get a wing. I would probably go about it in this way.

#1: trade up somewhere in that 15-22 range
#2: stand pat and hope one of those guys projected to go there slips to me
#3: if none of them do, Id go with one of the bigs.

Again I think the wings that can be had in the 2nd round are solid. Just think far more bang for buck value wise with the bigs at that range.

I personally would love to get Clowney but the Celtics would have to trade up for him in my opinion. My other two favorites are Bilal Coulibaly and Keyontae Johnson (I think he would be great off the bench with Hauser). It's only April 25th, I'm sure my favorites will change.

Bilal Coulibaly looks like the perfect guy to learn from Tatum and Brown and become something in a few years.

[Hal14]

This you wont have to worry about with Lively. There is no question with motor, love for the game and so on with him. Ive stated before I wouldnt trade up to get him, but thats more just because I think you can find guys of his archetype late late 1st and early 2nd most rounds.

But ya in high school his motor (on or off the court) was never in question and at Duke this was never in question. He had a slow start after his injury and was even bounced from the starting role for a few games, barely seeing double digit minutes. No change in demeanor on the bench, he was easily the biggest cheerleader on the bench all year long when he wasnt in the game.

But ya motor, work ethic and love for the game will be viewed as a huge plus for him, unlike WCS which this was in question since he was in high school. Plus Lively has freakish length that WCS didnt have. WCS was 6'11 with a 7'3 wingspan. Lively is legit 7' without shoes and has a 7'7 wingspan.

That’s like an entire position bigger really. 2 1/2” of height and 4” of wingspan would move almost anybody up a slot.

Ya and Im sure the standing reach difference will be quite a gap as well. Basically any other year after the combine Lively would be talked about as the freak of the draft. He just happens to be in the same draft as Wemby, so the talk for him will probably be quieter than it would most drafts.

Ill say this, Lively was in last year's class. I would have him higher than Duren, Williams and Kessler. Now Kessler with some 20/20 vision I would have it pretty close between those two (I was a little iffy about how well Kessler mobility would translate). But ya defensively Lively checks off every box. Elite rim protector, good on his rotations (not just to block shots), and while he isnt a freak with his vertical, his mobility especially his lateral agility for his size is elite.

Good rebounder as well (16 rebounds per 100, that number looks even more impressive with knowing he usually shared the court with Filipowski who is also an elite rebounder). But ya no denying the offense is junk though haha. He's DeAndre Jordan level of offensive player coming out of college. I know he hit a few 3s in high school and the form on that isnt horrible. But I would view if that ever came around that would just be a cherry on top. His value is basically all on the defensive end.

I don't really agree with that. Lively offers tremendous value with his vertical spacing. He's probably the best lob threat in this draft class, with an insane catch radius. Just throw it up there and he'll go and get it and dunk it. The dude dunks everything - much better finisher near the basket than most bigs in the class.

Great with put-backs. Also an underrated passer and guy who can run DHO, hit cutters, skip pass to the open shooter, etc.

Robert williams led the entire NBA in offensive rating last season - it was the highest offensive rating in NBA history.Lively has the potential to do everything offensively that Robert can. And Lively is a few inches taller, doesn't have the injury issues that timelord has and Lively also has the potential to shoot 3's.

These types of bigs are very valuable on offense.

Also, I think you're downplaying his shooting a bit. He hit more than just "a few 3's in HS". We see him hit about 15 threes in this video, at the 3:18 mark:

Watch on YouTube

And this says he shot 31.6% from 3 in his last AAU season, a very high mark for a 7-foot big man who wasn't even 18 yrs old yet:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Obviously, he didn't showcase the shooting much at all at Duke. But I'm fairly optimistic that he can eventually develop that part of his game in the NBA.

Lively is in very good company in terms of what he brings to the table on both ends of the floor, as a freshman big man playing in a high major conference:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Duke4life831]

That’s like an entire position bigger really. 2 1/2” of height and 4” of wingspan would move almost anybody up a slot.

Ya and Im sure the standing reach difference will be quite a gap as well. Basically any other year after the combine Lively would be talked about as the freak of the draft. He just happens to be in the same draft as Wemby, so the talk for him will probably be quieter than it would most drafts.

Ill say this, Lively was in last year's class. I would have him higher than Duren, Williams and Kessler. Now Kessler with some 20/20 vision I would have it pretty close between those two (I was a little iffy about how well Kessler mobility would translate). But ya defensively Lively checks off every box. Elite rim protector, good on his rotations (not just to block shots), and while he isnt a freak with his vertical, his mobility especially his lateral agility for his size is elite.

Good rebounder as well (16 rebounds per 100, that number looks even more impressive with knowing he usually shared the court with Filipowski who is also an elite rebounder). But ya no denying the offense is junk though haha. He's DeAndre Jordan level of offensive player coming out of college. I know he hit a few 3s in high school and the form on that isnt horrible. But I would view if that ever came around that would just be a cherry on top. His value is basically all on the defensive end.

I don't really agree with that. Lively offers tremendous value with his vertical spacing. He's probably the best lob threat in this draft class, with an insane catch radius. Just throw it up there and he'll go and get it and dunk it. The dude dunks everything - much better finisher near the basket than most bigs in the class.

Great with put-backs. Also an underrated passer and guy who can run DHO, hit cutters, skip pass to the open shooter, etc.

Robert williams led the entire NBA in offensive rating last season - it was the highest offensive rating in NBA history.Lively has the potential to do everything offensively that Robert can. And Lively is a few inches taller, doesn't have the injury issues that timelord has and Lively also has the potential to shoot 3's.

Also, I think you're downplaying his shooting a bit. He hit more than just "a few 3's in HS". We see him hit about 15 threes in this video, at the 3:18 mark:

Watch on YouTube

And this says he shot 31.6% from 3 in his last AAU season, a very high mark for a 7-foot big man who wasn't even 18 yrs old yet:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Obviously, he didn't showcase the shooting much at all at Duke. But I'm fairly optimistic that he can eventually develop that part of his game in the NBA.

Lively is in very good company in terms of what he brings to the table on both ends of the floor, as a freshman big man playing in a high major conference:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I disagree with the underrated passer part. Not saying he is a horrible passer, but he didnt show anything either there. And again on offense all he was, was a dunker. His shooting in high school was not a part of his normal game and it didnt translate at all to Duke. He was given open shots after open shots and he just refused to look at the basket and he had the green light to shoot when he wanted. There are a lot of bigs in high school that hit enough open 3s against horrible competition to put enough of the makes in a quick highlight. I remember the "Is Kevon Looney the next KD" highlight tape from high school.

Anything outside of a dunk, it was tough to watch. His shot is all potential at the moment. His offense was essentially DeAndre Jordan at Texas A&M level. Mark Williams wasnt known for his offense either coming out of Duke, but his offensive game was much much further along than Lively's.

[165bows]

Ya and Im sure the standing reach difference will be quite a gap as well. Basically any other year after the combine Lively would be talked about as the freak of the draft. He just happens to be in the same draft as Wemby, so the talk for him will probably be quieter than it would most drafts.

Ill say this, Lively was in last year's class. I would have him higher than Duren, Williams and Kessler. Now Kessler with some 20/20 vision I would have it pretty close between those two (I was a little iffy about how well Kessler mobility would translate). But ya defensively Lively checks off every box. Elite rim protector, good on his rotations (not just to block shots), and while he isnt a freak with his vertical, his mobility especially his lateral agility for his size is elite.

Good rebounder as well (16 rebounds per 100, that number looks even more impressive with knowing he usually shared the court with Filipowski who is also an elite rebounder). But ya no denying the offense is junk though haha. He's DeAndre Jordan level of offensive player coming out of college. I know he hit a few 3s in high school and the form on that isnt horrible. But I would view if that ever came around that would just be a cherry on top. His value is basically all on the defensive end.

I don't really agree with that. Lively offers tremendous value with his vertical spacing. He's probably the best lob threat in this draft class, with an insane catch radius. Just throw it up there and he'll go and get it and dunk it. The dude dunks everything - much better finisher near the basket than most bigs in the class.

Great with put-backs. Also an underrated passer and guy who can run DHO, hit cutters, skip pass to the open shooter, etc.

Robert williams led the entire NBA in offensive rating last season - it was the highest offensive rating in NBA history.Lively has the potential to do everything offensively that Robert can. And Lively is a few inches taller, doesn't have the injury issues that timelord has and Lively also has the potential to shoot 3's.

Also, I think you're downplaying his shooting a bit. He hit more than just "a few 3's in HS". We see him hit about 15 threes in this video, at the 3:18 mark:

Watch on YouTube

And this says he shot 31.6% from 3 in his last AAU season, a very high mark for a 7-foot big man who wasn't even 18 yrs old yet:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Obviously, he didn't showcase the shooting much at all at Duke. But I'm fairly optimistic that he can eventually develop that part of his game in the NBA.

Lively is in very good company in terms of what he brings to the table on both ends of the floor, as a freshman big man playing in a high major conference:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I disagree with the underrated passer part. Not saying he is a horrible passer, but he didnt show anything either there. And again on offense all he was, was a dunker. His shooting in high school was not a part of his normal game and it didnt translate at all to Duke. He was given open shots after open shots and he just refused to look at the basket and he had the green light to shoot when he wanted. There are a lot of bigs in high school that hit enough open 3s against horrible competition to put enough of the makes in a quick highlight. I remember the "Is Kevon Looney the next KD" highlight tape from high school.

Anything outside of a dunk, it was tough to watch. His shot is all potential at the moment. His offense was essentially DeAndre Jordan at Texas A&M level. Mark Williams wasnt known for his offense either coming out of Duke, but his offensive game was much much further along than Lively's.

Granting that you have watched much, much more of him then I have, but at least statistically his passing grades out different than all of these other guys. DAJ was a 1:3 A:TO ratio in college. Mark Williams and Adem Bona, 1:2 (pretty typical of that sort of big man). Wemby is around 1:1. Lively I don't think is some playmaker, not what I am saying here, but had a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio which is much much better than most dunk-and-block big men. Especially for a young player like that.

Overall I agree with you I doubt he becomes much of a scorer - but if you look at eg Rob Williams - still a very low volume scorer but does a lot moving and handling the ball which this team looks for.

[Duke4life831]

I don't really agree with that. Lively offers tremendous value with his vertical spacing. He's probably the best lob threat in this draft class, with an insane catch radius. Just throw it up there and he'll go and get it and dunk it. The dude dunks everything - much better finisher near the basket than most bigs in the class.

Great with put-backs. Also an underrated passer and guy who can run DHO, hit cutters, skip pass to the open shooter, etc.

Robert williams led the entire NBA in offensive rating last season - it was the highest offensive rating in NBA history.Lively has the potential to do everything offensively that Robert can. And Lively is a few inches taller, doesn't have the injury issues that timelord has and Lively also has the potential to shoot 3's.

Also, I think you're downplaying his shooting a bit. He hit more than just "a few 3's in HS". We see him hit about 15 threes in this video, at the 3:18 mark:

Watch on YouTube

And this says he shot 31.6% from 3 in his last AAU season, a very high mark for a 7-foot big man who wasn't even 18 yrs old yet:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Obviously, he didn't showcase the shooting much at all at Duke. But I'm fairly optimistic that he can eventually develop that part of his game in the NBA.

Lively is in very good company in terms of what he brings to the table on both ends of the floor, as a freshman big man playing in a high major conference:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I disagree with the underrated passer part. Not saying he is a horrible passer, but he didnt show anything either there. And again on offense all he was, was a dunker. His shooting in high school was not a part of his normal game and it didnt translate at all to Duke. He was given open shots after open shots and he just refused to look at the basket and he had the green light to shoot when he wanted. There are a lot of bigs in high school that hit enough open 3s against horrible competition to put enough of the makes in a quick highlight. I remember the "Is Kevon Looney the next KD" highlight tape from high school.

Anything outside of a dunk, it was tough to watch. His shot is all potential at the moment. His offense was essentially DeAndre Jordan at Texas A&M level. Mark Williams wasnt known for his offense either coming out of Duke, but his offensive game was much much further along than Lively's.

Granting that you have watched much, much more of him then I have, but at least statistically his passing grades out different than all of these other guys. DAJ was a 1:3 A:TO ratio in college. Mark Williams and Adem Bona, 1:2 (pretty typical of that sort of big man). Wemby is around 1:1. Lively I don't think is some playmaker, not what I am saying here, but had a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio which is much much better than most dunk-and-block big men. Especially for a young player like that.

Overall I agree with you I doubt he becomes much of a scorer - but if you look at eg Rob Williams - still a very low volume scorer but does a lot moving and handling the ball which this team looks for.

His passing was much more of a product of the system more than anything else. Again not saying he is a horrible passer or anything like that. Ya maybe in the right system he can be a Kevon Looney level of passer. But I think it will be much more system oriented more so than anything else. And again Im not sure he is even that. I just saw zero advanced passing skills from him. I would put his passing in just a neutral territory. It doesnt hurt him as a prospect, but I also dont see it as any positive for him either.

[165bows]

I disagree with the underrated passer part. Not saying he is a horrible passer, but he didnt show anything either there. And again on offense all he was, was a dunker. His shooting in high school was not a part of his normal game and it didnt translate at all to Duke. He was given open shots after open shots and he just refused to look at the basket and he had the green light to shoot when he wanted. There are a lot of bigs in high school that hit enough open 3s against horrible competition to put enough of the makes in a quick highlight. I remember the "Is Kevon Looney the next KD" highlight tape from high school.

Anything outside of a dunk, it was tough to watch. His shot is all potential at the moment. His offense was essentially DeAndre Jordan at Texas A&M level. Mark Williams wasnt known for his offense either coming out of Duke, but his offensive game was much much further along than Lively's.

Granting that you have watched much, much more of him then I have, but at least statistically his passing grades out different than all of these other guys. DAJ was a 1:3 A:TO ratio in college. Mark Williams and Adem Bona, 1:2 (pretty typical of that sort of big man). Wemby is around 1:1. Lively I don't think is some playmaker, not what I am saying here, but had a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio which is much much better than most dunk-and-block big men. Especially for a young player like that.

Overall I agree with you I doubt he becomes much of a scorer - but if you look at eg Rob Williams - still a very low volume scorer but does a lot moving and handling the ball which this team looks for.

His passing was much more of a product of the system more than anything else. Again not saying he is a horrible passer or anything like that. Ya maybe in the right system he can be a Kevon Looney level of passer. But I think it will be much more system oriented more so than anything else. And again Im not sure he is even that. I just saw zero advanced passing skills from him. I would put his passing in just a neutral territory. It doesnt hurt him as a prospect, but I also dont see it as any positive for him either.

If you look at the Celtics' team there are a lot of guys like that. Guys that don't use a big volume of possessions, and don't turn the ball over much, and score (albeit on very low volume) very efficiently (again from very few spots on the floor).

Who knows with any prospect really but he seems like a guy with a few important areas he does at a very high level and is good at competent team ball. At a high level, playing well in a system is a good thing. I think this team is much more looking for that than an Eamoni Bates-good-at-looking-athletic-jacking-his-own shot kind of guy.

[Hal14]

Ya and Im sure the standing reach difference will be quite a gap as well. Basically any other year after the combine Lively would be talked about as the freak of the draft. He just happens to be in the same draft as Wemby, so the talk for him will probably be quieter than it would most drafts.

Ill say this, Lively was in last year's class. I would have him higher than Duren, Williams and Kessler. Now Kessler with some 20/20 vision I would have it pretty close between those two (I was a little iffy about how well Kessler mobility would translate). But ya defensively Lively checks off every box. Elite rim protector, good on his rotations (not just to block shots), and while he isnt a freak with his vertical, his mobility especially his lateral agility for his size is elite.

Good rebounder as well (16 rebounds per 100, that number looks even more impressive with knowing he usually shared the court with Filipowski who is also an elite rebounder). But ya no denying the offense is junk though haha. He's DeAndre Jordan level of offensive player coming out of college. I know he hit a few 3s in high school and the form on that isnt horrible. But I would view if that ever came around that would just be a cherry on top. His value is basically all on the defensive end.

I don't really agree with that. Lively offers tremendous value with his vertical spacing. He's probably the best lob threat in this draft class, with an insane catch radius. Just throw it up there and he'll go and get it and dunk it. The dude dunks everything - much better finisher near the basket than most bigs in the class.

Great with put-backs. Also an underrated passer and guy who can run DHO, hit cutters, skip pass to the open shooter, etc.

Robert williams led the entire NBA in offensive rating last season - it was the highest offensive rating in NBA history.Lively has the potential to do everything offensively that Robert can. And Lively is a few inches taller, doesn't have the injury issues that timelord has and Lively also has the potential to shoot 3's.

Also, I think you're downplaying his shooting a bit. He hit more than just "a few 3's in HS". We see him hit about 15 threes in this video, at the 3:18 mark:

Watch on YouTube

And this says he shot 31.6% from 3 in his last AAU season, a very high mark for a 7-foot big man who wasn't even 18 yrs old yet:

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Obviously, he didn't showcase the shooting much at all at Duke. But I'm fairly optimistic that he can eventually develop that part of his game in the NBA.

Lively is in very good company in terms of what he brings to the table on both ends of the floor, as a freshman big man playing in a high major conference:

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I disagree with the underrated passer part. Not saying he is a horrible passer, but he didnt show anything either there. And again on offense all he was, was a dunker. His shooting in high school was not a part of his normal game and it didnt translate at all to Duke. He was given open shots after open shots and he just refused to look at the basket and he had the green light to shoot when he wanted. There are a lot of bigs in high school that hit enough open 3s against horrible competition to put enough of the makes in a quick highlight. I remember the "Is Kevon Looney the next KD" highlight tape from high school.

Anything outside of a dunk, it was tough to watch. His shot is all potential at the moment. His offense was essentially DeAndre Jordan at Texas A&M level. Mark Williams wasnt known for his offense either coming out of Duke, but his offensive game was much much further along than Lively's.

These are the league leaders in offensive rating this season:
1. kevon looney
2. robert williams
3. mitchell robinson
4. walker kessler
5. dwight powell
6. clint capela

Bigs who are REALLY good at rim running, catching lobs, high energy, active on the offensive glass, can set high screens, good at rolling to the rim and finishing out of the PnR, can move the ball quickly are VERY valuable players on offense.

As far as his shooting, it's not just a highlight vid lol. It was a video that showed him hit FIFTEEN threes in a short period of time in actual game action vs good competition (some of the best HS talent in the country from his age group) and if you actually watched the video, some of the shots were tightly contested - they weren't all open.

It's 32% shooting from 3 over the course of an AAU season. Again, that's a very high number for a 7-foot big man who wasn't even 18 yrs old yet. I think you're basing too much of a small sample size of just 1 college season.

Sure, his shooting is just potential. But I think the potential is pretty good, given the smooth mechanics, the high 3 pt % and volume prior to college, paired with his strong work ethic. He certainly has more potential as a shooter than guys like Nnaji, Bona, Jackson-Davis, Edey or even NBA guys like Mark Williams, capela, robert williams, mitchell robinson, etc.

Agree to disagree about his passing. I'm not saying he is elite, but he showed some solid IQ and feel as a passer, imo:

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[playa-hater]

Nice to see many following my lead on Lively as you should

Kidding... Or am I

But also as mentioned he may just be too far out of reach anyway.

I am not sure any other Big beside Nnaji is a first RD talent near the end of RD 1.. The "wings" seem to be more available to us.

If we do go with a Wing, it would be hard to imagine a Wing being very good at both shooting and defense. But I am hoping that our potential Prospect will be at least a standout at one of those 2 attributes. And Since we already have Hauser as a very good shooter, perhaps leaning on a lockup Wing player is the way to Go.

[return2glory]

That’s like an entire position bigger really. 2 1/2” of height and 4” of wingspan would move almost anybody up a slot.

Ya and Im sure the standing reach difference will be quite a gap as well. Basically any other year after the combine Lively would be talked about as the freak of the draft. He just happens to be in the same draft as Wemby, so the talk for him will probably be quieter than it would most drafts.

Ill say this, Lively was in last year's class. I would have him higher than Duren, Williams and Kessler. Now Kessler with some 20/20 vision I would have it pretty close between those two (I was a little iffy about how well Kessler mobility would translate). But ya defensively Lively checks off every box. Elite rim protector, good on his rotations (not just to block shots), and while he isnt a freak with his vertical, his mobility especially his lateral agility for his size is elite.

Good rebounder as well (16 rebounds per 100, that number looks even more impressive with knowing he usually shared the court with Filipowski who is also an elite rebounder). But ya no denying the offense is junk though haha. He's DeAndre Jordan level of offensive player coming out of college. I know he hit a few 3s in high school and the form on that isnt horrible. But I would view if that ever came around that would just be a cherry on top. His value is basically all on the defensive end.

I don't really agree with that. Lively offers tremendous value with his vertical spacing. He's probably the best lob threat in this draft class, with an insane catch radius. Just throw it up there and he'll go and get it and dunk it. The dude dunks everything - much better finisher near the basket than most bigs in the class.

Great with put-backs. Also an underrated passer and guy who can run DHO, hit cutters, skip pass to the open shooter, etc.

Robert williams led the entire NBA in offensive rating last season - it was the highest offensive rating in NBA history.Lively has the potential to do everything offensively that Robert can. And Lively is a few inches taller, doesn't have the injury issues that timelord has and Lively also has the potential to shoot 3's.

These types of bigs are very valuable on offense.

Also, I think you're downplaying his shooting a bit. He hit more than just "a few 3's in HS". We see him hit about 15 threes in this video, at the 3:18 mark:

Watch on YouTube

And this says he shot 31.6% from 3 in his last AAU season, a very high mark for a 7-foot big man who wasn't even 18 yrs old yet:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Obviously, he didn't showcase the shooting much at all at Duke. But I'm fairly optimistic that he can eventually develop that part of his game in the NBA.

Lively is in very good company in terms of what he brings to the table on both ends of the floor, as a freshman big man playing in a high major conference:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I'm guessing Duke4Life has been him play more than you have. Almost everyone looks good on highlights. Lively plays dead on offense. Not saying he can't improve, but he hasn't so far.

[Parliament10]

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