Celtics General Thread 2019-20, "Re-Start"

[Curmudgeon]

Hayward needs some serious load management.

[kb24k]

No way this team makes the top 4 with the schedule left

Hayward played like crap in every game against elite teams and people still want to give him more touches. Let's give him 20 shots against the bucks so he can go 2-20

Vs Phily : 25 points (53%) 5 rebounds
Vs Bucks : 21 points (53%) 10 rebounds, 7 assists
Vs Phily : 19 points (50%) 4 rebounds, 5 assists
Vs Toronto : 14 points (66%) 5 rebounds, 6 assists

I can understand that people are mad after Hayward for last two games, but what about the other 4 starters that are always sleeping in the 1st quarter and let the opponents have a between 10 and 15 points lead after 12 minutes ???

almost every game...

vs mil 1-10 7 pts
@philly 4-11 8 pts
vs tor 3-13 13 pts
in that Christmas game he scored 5 of his 14 points in garbage time. you can't count that as a good game(nor a bad one)

last year: whole Milwaukee series
crappy games against warriors at home, Houston, okc, bucks, lakers and many others

the reason why people are mad at Hayward is because they did very well without him and they were less frustrating. actually they were a pleasure to watch

when he was healthy(like in the beginning of the season) I was ok with putting the ball in his hands, but he is almost never close to 100%, and to make him the 1st option the way he looked ever since he came back...it's madness. especially since we know how his game affects Jaylen brown: when Hayward takes 11 or more shots, Jaylen averages 16.4ppg and 45%fg.
if you are going to give Hayward so many shots you have to make sure it's worth it knowing the impact.

this is even worse when everyone is playing. when Tatum didn't play.. brown and Hayward were able to coexist.

[Roddy]

No way this team makes the top 4 with the schedule left

Hayward played like crap in every game against elite teams and people still want to give him more touches. Let's give him 20 shots against the bucks so he can go 2-20

Vs Phily : 25 points (53%) 5 rebounds
Vs Bucks : 21 points (53%) 10 rebounds, 7 assists
Vs Phily : 19 points (50%) 4 rebounds, 5 assists
Vs Toronto : 14 points (66%) 5 rebounds, 6 assists

I can understand that people are mad after Hayward for last two games, but what about the other 4 starters that are always sleeping in the 1st quarter and let the opponents have a between 10 and 15 points lead after 12 minutes ???

almost every game...

vs mil 1-10 7 pts
@philly 4-11 8 pts
vs tor 3-13 13 pts
in that Christmas game he scored 5 of his 14 points in garbage time. you can't count that as a good game(nor a bad one)

last year: whole Milwaukee series
crappy games against warriors at home, Houston, okc, bucks, lakers and many others

the reason why people are mad at Hayward is because they did very well without him and they were less frustrating. actually they were a pleasure to watch

when he was healthy(like in the beginning of the season) I was ok with putting the ball in his hands, but he is almost never close to 100%, and to make him the 1st option the way he looked ever since he came back...it's madness. especially since we know how his game affects Jaylen brown: when Hayward takes 11 or more shots, Jaylen averages 16.4ppg and 45%fg.
if you are going to give Hayward so many shots you have to make sure it's worth it knowing the impact.

this is even worse when everyone is playing. when Tatum didn't play.. brown and Hayward were able to coexist.

I think that putting the ball in Hayward's hands doesn't mean to shoot more. He is a faciliator, probably the second best passer of this team behind Smart.
I don't want (and we don't need) him to take 20 shoots. But he can't stay in the corner and wait for the ball.

As for his health, they should give him some rest on back to back games.

Smart and Hayward should have the ball in their hands and create while Tatum/Brown/Kemba should take the most shoots.

[bucknersrevenge]

Least experienced rosters by average seasons of NBA experience:

Boston Celtics (2.73)
Phoenix Suns (2.80)
Chicago Bulls (3.07)
Minnesota Timberwolves (3.40)
Indiana Pacers (3.53)

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/11/youngest-oldest-nba-rosters-for-201920.html

This is not getting nearly enough attention. We are the most INEXPERIENCED team in the league. If the old adage of the NBA about the league eating its young, What does that say about this roster? Look at the the top 3 most inexperienced teams who has the best record? What does that say about our players? What does that say about our coach? What does that say about Danny Ainge's next move?

[zoyathedestroya]

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[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Lakers, Memphis, magic, pelicans, Miami and golden state is the schedule the rest of January.

Celtics are on a three game losing streak so it'll be interesting to see when they can actually get a win next. Wouldn't shock me if Golden State would be their next win.

[cloverleaf]

Least experienced rosters by average seasons of NBA experience:

Boston Celtics (2.73)
Phoenix Suns (2.80)
Chicago Bulls (3.07)
Minnesota Timberwolves (3.40)
Indiana Pacers (3.53)

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/11/youngest-oldest-nba-rosters-for-201920.html

This is not getting nearly enough attention. We are the most INEXPERIENCED team in the league. If the old adage of the NBA about the league eating its young, What does that say about this roster? Look at the the top 3 most inexperienced teams who has the best record? What does that say about our players? What does that say about our coach? What does that say about Danny Ainge's next move?

Yes, it is a quite young and inexperienced team, relatively. But it isn't quite as extreme as it sounds in that Daniel, Brad and Vinnie of course all had significant pro experience in Europe before joining the C's.

[Fencer reregistered]

For the offense to be good:
-- The ball needs to keep moving so that hero ball is only occasionally needed.
-- The hero shots need to fall at a reasonable rate.
-- The easier shot need to fall at a high rate.

I.e.: consistency, in team and individual play alike. Give up one of Smart's or Hayward's ballhandling, and I don't see how such consistency is likely. Better bench guys would help as well.

The perimeter defense is fine, but the centers are physically overmatched. Theis' foul trouble vs. the Lakers is just another example of that. RobWill and/or Tacko could improve that a lot.

So I'm in agreement with the conventional wisdom: Stay the course, beef up the bench, and hope that the young guys and Hayward's extremeties continue to improve.

[zoyathedestroya]

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Some friendly banter going on Twitter. There's another one on the Chipotle Lunch Controversy.

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[Feed Your Head]

Danny, how could you?

[zoyathedestroya]

Celtics Efficiency Leaders per Playtype (42 games in):
PPP = points per possession
poss = possessions
minimum of 20 possessions

• Transition - Gordon Hayward (1.57 PPP on 63 poss, 98.6 percentile)
• Isolation - Gordon Hayward (1.19 PPP on 21 poss, 94.5 percentile)
• PnR Ballhandler - Marcus Smart (1.16 PPP on 102 poss, 95.7 percentile)
• PnR Rollman - Jayson Tatum (1.26 PPP on 27 poss, 78.7 percentile)
• Postup - Jaylen Brown (1.16 PPP on 31 poss, 97.5 percentile)
• Spot-up - Gordon Hayward (1.18 PPP on 76 poss, 85.4 percentile)
• Hand-off - Jaylen Brown (1.00 PPP on 35 poss, 68.5 percentile)
• Cut - Gordon Hayward (1.46 PPP on 28 poss, 81.4 percentile)
• Off-screen - Kemba Walker (1.11 PPP on 73 poss, 78.8 percentile)
• Putbacks - Jaylen Brown (1.13 PPP on 31 poss, 61.0 percentile)

Source: stats.nba.com

[zoyathedestroya]

On Today's Stats that Mean Absolutely Nothing...

EIGHT of the last TEN teams that were top 6 in BOTH offensive and defensive efficiency during the regular season advanced to the Conference Finals. (Offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency rankings in parenthesis)

2019: MIL (3,2), TOR (6,5)
2018: HOU (1,6), TOR (3,5)
2017: GSW (1,2)
2016: SAS (2,1), GSW (1,4)
2015: GSW (2,1), ATL (5,5)
2014: OKC (5,5)

2018 Raptors ran into Lebron. 2016 Spurs were beaten by the OKC team which almost beat the 73-win Warriors.

Even after Celtics (4,5) recent slide, they're one of three teams that are currently top 5 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Lakers (3,4) and Bucks (2,1) are the other two.

Source: cleaningtheglass.com

[bucknersrevenge]

Least experienced rosters by average seasons of NBA experience:

Boston Celtics (2.73)
Phoenix Suns (2.80)
Chicago Bulls (3.07)
Minnesota Timberwolves (3.40)
Indiana Pacers (3.53)

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/11/youngest-oldest-nba-rosters-for-201920.html

This is not getting nearly enough attention. We are the most INEXPERIENCED team in the league. If the old adage of the NBA about the league eating its young, What does that say about this roster? Look at the the top 3 most inexperienced teams who has the best record? What does that say about our players? What does that say about our coach? What does that say about Danny Ainge's next move?

Yes, it is a quite young and inexperienced team, relatively. But it isn't quite as extreme as it sounds in that Daniel, Brad and Vinnie of course all had significant pro experience in Europe before joining the C's.

In a way, I agree but overseas experience is not NBA experience. The game is different. The coverages and rotations are different. Vinnie can't even get on the court so a lot of good his experience is doing us. Brad is okay in the regular season vs. a mediocre team but I don't trust him against good teams in the playoffs. I don't know about you but I don't and that's the larger point. Save Theis from that group, I don't know what to expect.

[zoyathedestroya]

The best version of the Celtics on offense is when they move the ball and don't really care who gets to make the shot. We had all the talent in the world last season and the "my turn, your turn" approach we had didn't really get us anywhere. (Still trying to burn the memory of the Bucks series off my brain.) I have no direct evidence to back it up, but Hayward's penchant to make the extra pass (yes, even sometimes overpass) is contagious. The offense just flows better when everyone is sharing the ball and not just attacking their individual matchups. Everyone getting to touch the ball, empowered to make quick decisions instead of just standing around and ball-watching keeps the players engaged and energized. TRUST THE PASS.

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[cloverleaf]

Least experienced rosters by average seasons of NBA experience:

Boston Celtics (2.73)
Phoenix Suns (2.80)
Chicago Bulls (3.07)
Minnesota Timberwolves (3.40)
Indiana Pacers (3.53)

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/11/youngest-oldest-nba-rosters-for-201920.html

This is not getting nearly enough attention. We are the most INEXPERIENCED team in the league. If the old adage of the NBA about the league eating its young, What does that say about this roster? Look at the the top 3 most inexperienced teams who has the best record? What does that say about our players? What does that say about our coach? What does that say about Danny Ainge's next move?

Yes, it is a quite young and inexperienced team, relatively. But it isn't quite as extreme as it sounds in that Daniel, Brad and Vinnie of course all had significant pro experience in Europe before joining the C's.

In a way, I agree but overseas experience is not NBA experience. The game is different. The coverages and rotations are different. Vinnie can't even get on the court so a lot of good his experience is doing us. Brad is okay in the regular season vs. a mediocre team but I don't trust him against good teams in the playoffs. I don't know about you but I don't and that's the larger point. Save Theis from that group, I don't know what to expect.

Sure--I agree with you on all that. For the playoffs, we just need to hope Gordon and Rob get healthy. Then as Stevens shortens the rotations, trusting Wanamaker won't really be an issue.

And actually I think you do know what to expect from Wanamaker. He is what he is and more NBA experience is not going to make much difference for him at this point.

[GoCeltics123]

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[zoyathedestroya]

Spoiler:

On Today's Stats that Mean Absolutely Nothing...

EIGHT of the last TEN teams that were top 6 in BOTH offensive and defensive efficiency during the regular season advanced to the Conference Finals. (Offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency rankings in parenthesis)

2019: MIL (3,2), TOR (6,5)
2018: HOU (1,6), TOR (3,5)
2017: GSW (1,2)
2016: SAS (2,1), GSW (1,4)
2015: GSW (2,1), ATL (5,5)
2014: OKC (5,5)

2018 Raptors ran into Lebron. 2016 Spurs were beaten by the OKC team which almost beat the 73-win Warriors.

Even after Celtics (4,5) recent slide, they're one of three teams that are currently top 5 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Lakers (3,4) and Bucks (2,1) are the other two.

Source: cleaningtheglass.com

After drubbing of the Grizzlies, Cs have moved past the Lakers with the 2nd best net rating, 3rd best offensive rating, and 3rd best defensive rating.

Can they sustain this until the end of the season? Stay tuned at 11!

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[zoyathedestroya]

Spoiler:

On Today's Stats that Mean Absolutely Nothing...

EIGHT of the last TEN teams that were top 6 in BOTH offensive and defensive efficiency during the regular season advanced to the Conference Finals. (Offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency rankings in parenthesis)

2019: MIL (3,2), TOR (6,5)
2018: HOU (1,6), TOR (3,5)
2017: GSW (1,2)
2016: SAS (2,1), GSW (1,4)
2015: GSW (2,1), ATL (5,5)
2014: OKC (5,5)

2018 Raptors ran into Lebron. 2016 Spurs were beaten by the OKC team which almost beat the 73-win Warriors.

Even after Celtics (4,5) recent slide, they're one of three teams that are currently top 5 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Lakers (3,4) and Bucks (2,1) are the other two.

Source: cleaningtheglass.com

After drubbing of the Grizzlies, Cs have moved past the Lakers with the 2nd best net rating, 3rd best offensive rating, and 3rd best defensive rating.

Can they sustain this until the end of the season? Stay tuned at 11!

After Lakers' loss to the Sixers, Bucks and Celtics are now the only teams with top 5 offense and top 5 defense.

Spoiler:

[Fencer reregistered]

Three teams have beaten both Bucks and Lakers: Celtics, Sixers and Mavs.