Trade Thread Tread pt.2 2023-24 - (Off-season)

[Andrew McCeltic]

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Jesus

[chrisab123]

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Jesus

I don't even have a problem with Brown and Tatum its everything else. Can they at least bring in someone like Beal who can shoot when healthy?

[Celts17Pride]

I think if the Celtics had a point guard who could explode to the rim and finish and could also shoot it would go a long way to fixing their offensive problems. Just don't know how you get that player and how that player would get minutes with Smart/White/Brogdon.

Marcus Sasser?

D White is the kind of the player I just described.

Not saying I want anyone off the team but when the Celtics start Smart/White/Brown/Tatum/Horford, teams worry about Tatum & Brown and a little bit about White. Teams could careless about Smart or Horford.

When the Celtics start Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford/RW3 it's even worst. Teams will let Horford/Smart/RW3 shoot all day long and only worry about Tatum and Brown.

Something has to change in that starting unit in my opinion. Need another weapon in there. Most logical is PG or C

[zoyathedestroya]

I think if the Celtics had a point guard who could explode to the rim and finish and could also shoot it would go a long way to fixing their offensive problems. Just don't know how you get that player and how that player would get minutes with Smart/White/Brogdon.

Marcus Sasser?

D White is the kind of the player I just described.

Too bad Kyrie is a free agent and we have no way of acquiring him. Kemba for MLE. IT says he can still ball with the best of em.

[Celts17Pride]

I think if the Celtics had a point guard who could explode to the rim and finish and could also shoot it would go a long way to fixing their offensive problems. Just don't know how you get that player and how that player would get minutes with Smart/White/Brogdon.

Marcus Sasser?

D White is the kind of the player I just described.

Too bad Kyrie is a free agent and we have no way of acquiring him. Kemba for MLE. IT says he can still ball with the best of em.

Miami knew Smart wasn't penetrating their zone and they could care less if he shot it outside. Same for Horford.

[zoyathedestroya]

If nothing changes with the core, at least elevate White’s role. But that’s a hard convo with both Smart AND Jaylen. Empower Rob too if he ever has a healthy season. Then find a starting big so Horford will just play 18-24 mins off the bench.

[hugepatsfan]

I think if the Celtics had a point guard who could explode to the rim and finish and could also shoot it would go a long way to fixing their offensive problems. Just don't know how you get that player and how that player would get minutes with Smart/White/Brogdon.

Marcus Sasser?

D White is the kind of the player I just described.

I think DWhite is that realistic answer at PG. I think he’s being held back playing with Smart the same way he was held back in SA playing with Murray.

I think a pure, true PG type is always going to be a pipe dream here. We will go as far as Tatum’s development as a point forward takes us. You have to run your offense through your best player. Smart is giving us an ugly middle ground now because his best role on offense is the floor general PG type, but he’s not nearly good enough at it to justify the ball out of Tatum’s hand. And he’s a negative as an off ball PG playing off Tatum as a point forward. It’s no man’s land.

White to me is a capable off ball PG who can also give you the secondary on ball stuff. Need to make him the PG and replace Smart in the starting lineup with a shooter. Smart can stay as the backup because he’d be useful in non Tatum minutes to help run the offense, but might be a bad allocation of resources there.

[zoyathedestroya]

I think if the Celtics had a point guard who could explode to the rim and finish and could also shoot it would go a long way to fixing their offensive problems. Just don't know how you get that player and how that player would get minutes with Smart/White/Brogdon.

Marcus Sasser?

D White is the kind of the player I just described.

Too bad Kyrie is a free agent and we have no way of acquiring him. Kemba for MLE. IT says he can still ball with the best of em.

Miami knew Smart wasn't penetrating their zone and they could care less if he shot it outside. Same for Horford.

Brogdon was brought in here for that purpose. (But I think he shot his career worst at the rim last season.) White too if he ever touches the ball enough.

[Celts17Pride]

If nothing changes with the core, at least elevate White’s role. But that’s a hard convo with both Smart AND Jaylen. Empower Rob too if he ever has a healthy season. Then find a starting big so Horford will just play 18-24 mins off the bench.

RW3 is a waste of a conversation. RW3 is never healthy. You just hope you get the quality from him in the right moments. Mr 50% playing time is not going to change.

You are on to something, I would start with White/Brown/Tatum as the starters and work from there.

[Celts17Pride]

Too bad Kyrie is a free agent and we have no way of acquiring him. Kemba for MLE. IT says he can still ball with the best of em.

Miami knew Smart wasn't penetrating their zone and they could care less if he shot it outside. Same for Horford.

Brogdon was brought in here for that purpose. (But I think he shot his career worst at the rim last season.) White too if he ever touches the ball enough.

White should be the starting point guard. He is the type of player I am talking about.

[Celts17Pride]

I'm fine with Smart/White/Brown/Tatum (not a big Brogdon fan, he can't defend). Celtics get nothing out of Horford/G Williams/RW3 in the playoffs. Miami didn't even worry about those guys. That needs to change.

[165bows]

I think if the Celtics had a point guard who could explode to the rim and finish and could also shoot it would go a long way to fixing their offensive problems. Just don't know how you get that player and how that player would get minutes with Smart/White/Brogdon.

Marcus Sasser?

D White is the kind of the player I just described.

I think DWhite is that realistic answer at PG. I think he’s being held back playing with Smart the same way he was held back in SA playing with Murray.

I think a pure, true PG type is always going to be a pipe dream here. We will go as far as Tatum’s development as a point forward takes us. You have to run your offense through your best player. Smart is giving us an ugly middle ground now because his best role on offense is the floor general PG type, but he’s not nearly good enough at it to justify the ball out of Tatum’s hand. And he’s a negative as an off ball PG playing off Tatum as a point forward. It’s no man’s land.

White to me is a capable off ball PG who can also give you the secondary on ball stuff. Need to make him the PG and replace Smart in the starting lineup with a shooter. Smart can stay as the backup because he’d be useful in non Tatum minutes to help run the offense, but might be a bad allocation of resources there.

I agree with a lot of the posts above but issue is they are already weak in the ball handling department, especially in high leverage situations. Taking Smart out makes that worse.

People scoff but Smart shooting better and scoring more/more efficiently is a good solution that doesn’t cost anything. Otherwise where do you get a 6’5” or bigger guy that can shoot, handle, pass and play defense for cheap.

[hugepatsfan]

Charles Oakley was a Jordan favorite in CHI. They made the unpopular decision to trade him for roster balance elsewhere because they had Horace Grant ready to step into (and improve) that PF spot.

I think we have a similar dynamic here with White and Smart. We are too roster heavy at that position with weaknesses in others. They are less than ideal options playing together. I think we need to make that same type of trade that CHI did.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Dead on, if you ask me.

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We love threes.

We love threes and like our guys. We also like our assistants too.

They really love the analytics. Just need math guys!

[hugepatsfan]

I think if the Celtics had a point guard who could explode to the rim and finish and could also shoot it would go a long way to fixing their offensive problems. Just don't know how you get that player and how that player would get minutes with Smart/White/Brogdon.

Marcus Sasser?

D White is the kind of the player I just described.

I think DWhite is that realistic answer at PG. I think he’s being held back playing with Smart the same way he was held back in SA playing with Murray.

I think a pure, true PG type is always going to be a pipe dream here. We will go as far as Tatum’s development as a point forward takes us. You have to run your offense through your best player. Smart is giving us an ugly middle ground now because his best role on offense is the floor general PG type, but he’s not nearly good enough at it to justify the ball out of Tatum’s hand. And he’s a negative as an off ball PG playing off Tatum as a point forward. It’s no man’s land.

White to me is a capable off ball PG who can also give you the secondary on ball stuff. Need to make him the PG and replace Smart in the starting lineup with a shooter. Smart can stay as the backup because he’d be useful in non Tatum minutes to help run the offense, but might be a bad allocation of resources there.

I agree with a lot of the posts above but issue is they are already weak in the ball handling department, especially in high leverage situations. Taking Smart out makes that worse.

People scoff but Smart shooting better and scoring more/more efficiently is a good solution that doesn’t cost anything. Otherwise where do you get a 6’5” or bigger guy that can shoot, handle, pass and play defense for cheap.

I think part of our ball handling problem is that there is too much ball handling. You put Smart and White on the floor together with the theory that it will give you more ball handlers to help out. But the spacing takes enough of a hit to where any advantage you get from more capable ball handlers is wiped out because you allow defenses to put more ball pressure and cave in on whoever is handling the ball.

Right now it feels like we play 4 “capable” ball handlers but make it tough on all of them because the guys around whoever is handling the ball well don’t space the floor well enough against playoff defenses and scouting.

[zoyathedestroya]

I think if the Celtics had a point guard who could explode to the rim and finish and could also shoot it would go a long way to fixing their offensive problems. Just don't know how you get that player and how that player would get minutes with Smart/White/Brogdon.

Marcus Sasser?

D White is the kind of the player I just described.

I think DWhite is that realistic answer at PG. I think he’s being held back playing with Smart the same way he was held back in SA playing with Murray.

I think a pure, true PG type is always going to be a pipe dream here. We will go as far as Tatum’s development as a point forward takes us. You have to run your offense through your best player. Smart is giving us an ugly middle ground now because his best role on offense is the floor general PG type, but he’s not nearly good enough at it to justify the ball out of Tatum’s hand. And he’s a negative as an off ball PG playing off Tatum as a point forward. It’s no man’s land.

White to me is a capable off ball PG who can also give you the secondary on ball stuff. Need to make him the PG and replace Smart in the starting lineup with a shooter. Smart can stay as the backup because he’d be useful in non Tatum minutes to help run the offense, but might be a bad allocation of resources there.

I agree with a lot of the posts above but issue is they are already weak in the ball handling department, especially in high leverage situations. Taking Smart out makes that worse.

People scoff but Smart shooting better and scoring more/more efficiently is a good solution that doesn’t cost anything. Otherwise where do you get a 6’5” or bigger guy that can shoot, handle, pass and play defense for cheap.

Smart shot 59.2% TS% in the playoffs. That’s as good as it gets from him. We wasted a good shooting postseason from him and White. The beloved Jrue Holiday never shot above 50% in the postseason in his three years with the Bucks.

[Celts17Pride]

Biggest difference in the playoffs between 2022 and 2023 in my opinion.

2022 Horford - he was an offensive threat that needed to be paid attention to.
2023 Horford - no offensive threat at all, teams just didn't focus on him (Big Al had a guard on him in the paint and would refuse to attack him)

2022 RW3 - Explosive at the rim on offense, defensive monster with his quickness, switches and leaping ability
2023 RW3 - Same as 2022 without the explosiveness, most of the time looked disinterested on defense. (Game 1 against Butler should be shown to him every day in the summer)

Celtics got close to nothing from the frontcourt. G Williams was good some games and then Mazzulla would sit him.

Stevens has to address the frontcourt. Everyone has been saying this for 2 years.

[zoyathedestroya]

I think DWhite is that realistic answer at PG. I think he’s being held back playing with Smart the same way he was held back in SA playing with Murray.

I think a pure, true PG type is always going to be a pipe dream here. We will go as far as Tatum’s development as a point forward takes us. You have to run your offense through your best player. Smart is giving us an ugly middle ground now because his best role on offense is the floor general PG type, but he’s not nearly good enough at it to justify the ball out of Tatum’s hand. And he’s a negative as an off ball PG playing off Tatum as a point forward. It’s no man’s land.

White to me is a capable off ball PG who can also give you the secondary on ball stuff. Need to make him the PG and replace Smart in the starting lineup with a shooter. Smart can stay as the backup because he’d be useful in non Tatum minutes to help run the offense, but might be a bad allocation of resources there.

I agree with a lot of the posts above but issue is they are already weak in the ball handling department, especially in high leverage situations. Taking Smart out makes that worse.

People scoff but Smart shooting better and scoring more/more efficiently is a good solution that doesn’t cost anything. Otherwise where do you get a 6’5” or bigger guy that can shoot, handle, pass and play defense for cheap.

I think part of our ball handling problem is that there is too much ball handling. You put Smart and White on the floor together with the theory that it will give you more ball handlers to help out. But the spacing takes enough of a hit to where any advantage you get from more capable ball handlers is wiped out because you allow defenses to put more ball pressure and cave in on whoever is handling the ball.

Right now it feels like we play 4 “capable” ball handlers but make it tough on all of them because the guys around whoever is handling the ball well don’t space the floor well enough against playoff defenses and scouting.

The Heat set up their zone 25+ feet from the basket. It’s not the spacing. It’s the Jays unable to dribble through traffic without turning it over. And it’s the slow decision making lack of ball/player movement and predictable half court offense. Smart was one of the best shooters from the corner in the postseason. White was one of the best three-point shooters in the playoffs. They’ve made defenses pay enough. Jays shooting atrociously from three didn’t help.

[Celts17Pride]

In my opinion, this is the moment that Brad Stevens should be combining salaries, draft stashes, multiple draft picks and go out and get a significant piece (hopefully frontcourt) because if this core doesn't work then it's getting blown up in maximum 2 years anyways. It's go time.

[Celts17Pride]

The Heat set up their zone 25+ feet from the basket. It’s not the spacing. It’s the Jays unable to dribble through traffic without turning it over.

and a big part of that was that the Miami Heat wasn't worried about anyone else. They could care less if Smart or Horford were shooting 3's. Yes, give Smart credit he shot well but the Heat were not worried about him.

I'm not giving the Jays a pass. Both have to get better with the handle especially Jaylen Brown but another way to handle it is put players out there that teams would have to actually worry about.