Hayward Undecided

[Asian Celtic]

Is there any possible way danny could form a superteam with griffin and haywarf?

The possibility has been covered pretty in-depth by caveman and myself. It would be difficult but outside shot of it being theoretically possible.

if we have caveman and you that can break this down, imagine what Zarren can do if this is what he eats for breakfast. We're in good hands. This might be the bigger offseason than last year.

[165bows]

Is there any possible way danny could form a superteam with griffin and haywarf?

The possibility has been covered pretty in-depth by caveman and myself. It would be difficult but outside shot of it being theoretically possible.

if we have caveman and you that can break this down, imagine what Zarren can do if this is what he eats for breakfast. We're in good hands. This might be the bigger offseason than last year.

Notable cap shenanigans since 2013:

The KG/Pierce trade with Bogans' contract (directly netted a 2nd rounder), and a TPE (netted a 2nd, Zeller and a pick that became IT)

Amir, Jerebko and Zeller 1+1 deals.

Crowder descending/ascending contract to maximize space while Durant was a FA.

[SparringPartner]

Not interested in porzingis unless
It is for cheap.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

This is just a "prisoner of the moment" type of comment. If Porzingis ended the year on a tear you would not be making this statement. The dude is putting up numbers as a 21 yo on a horribly dysfunctional team.

Porzingis projects to be an annual all-star with an extremely unique set of skills and you want him on the cheap? I would easily trade 2017 #1 for him. Adding next years BRK pick, then it starts to break down for me.

IT4
Hayward
Crowder
Horford
Porzingis

Are you kidding me...

Or move Jaylen and next years BRK for KP

[SparringPartner]

Of course he's going to opt out. Whether that's to sign a max deal there or elsewhere is the only question.

Not sure, pal. He likes it there in Salt Lake City and the Jazz is just starting to get better again, just won 51 games, went to the Semis, bet the Clippers, IDK man. Of course I want him to come here and play with us over Jae, but it is what it is

You realize the Jazz **** on Hayward multiple times through the years. They are now just respecting his game when he's walking out that door. You know who has always respected his game, Mr. Brad fcking Stevens.

[shawn unkempt]

I had a dream I posted a dick pic on this board and I'm relieved to find out it didn't actually happen.

[Hikari]

When have the Jazz ever mistreated Hayward? Just wondering what info you have.

The only possible time that I know of is when they made him go and let the market set his value. Kevin O'Connor (Jazz former GM) always did that to restricted free agents. That GM has been replaced and Dennis Lindsey handles things very differently.

[canman1971]

I had a dream and I'm relieved to find out it didn't actually happen.

No need for this imagery. Thanks. Can.

[Andrew McCeltic]

New plan: max Hayward, either by renouncing everyone to get under the cap, or sign and trading if Utah wants to play along. That done, we have Zeller, Jerebko, whoever to trade if we're lucky. If we're unlucky, we can do Avery, Jae, Rozier, Yabu and/or our second-round pick to match salary for Drummond. Don't think we need to throw in the BKN 18, but Danny probably would.

IT/Fultz
Smart/Jaylen
Hayward/Nader
Horford/Yabu-and-or-MLE-big
Drummond/Zizic

Two major scoring threats in IT and Hayward, a great second-tier facilitator in Horford, Drummond as a dominant roll man playing off IT, Hayward, Horford, plus Fultz, Jaylen and Smart continuing to develop offensively. We can bring back Gerald Green, sign a third-string veteran point guard, maybe Brandon Bass for the vet minimum, and try to MLE someone like Ilyasova, Baynes, or even one of our own renounced players, Amir or Olynyk.

[Fencer reregistered]

And by the way, I'd be nervous about trading Fultz for Porzingis even if it was deemed to make basketball sense. Porzingis has had two years to learn that as a rising young star he should be a prima donna, and that particular trade would just reinforce the lesson.

By way of contrast, some other trade for him would not raise the same concerns in me. E.g. (in connection with a Hayward signing):

In
Porzingis
O'Quinn

Out
Smart
Crowder (presumably flipped to a third team for value)
Yabusele
Brooklyn 18
Boston 18
The two later 2017 2nds

That's a LOT of assets to NY (which could be helpful for face-saving reasons).

We, meanwhile, would have 5 premium players or prospects on the perimeter (Hayward, Thomas, Bradley, Brown, Fultz) plus 3 among the bigs (Horford, Porzingis, Zizic), along with a role-player big, an unused MLE, Nader, and whomever we kept for guard depth among Rozier/Jackson.

[djFan71]

And by the way, I'd be nervous about trading Fultz for Porzingis even if it was deemed to make basketball sense. Porzingis has had two years to learn that as a rising young star he should be a prima donna, and that particular trade would just reinforce the lesson.

By way of contrast, some other trade for him would not raise the same concerns in me. E.g. (in connection with a Hayward signing):

In
Porzingis
O'Quinn

Out
Smart
Crowder (presumably flipped to a third team for value)
Yabusele
Brooklyn 18
Boston 18
The two later 2017 2nds

That's a LOT of assets to NY (which could be helpful for face-saving reasons).

We, meanwhile, would have 5 premium players or prospects on the perimeter (Hayward, Thomas, Bradley, Brown, Fultz) plus 3 among the bigs (Horford, Porzingis, Zizic), along with a role-player big, an unused MLE, Nader, and whomever we kept for guard depth among Rozier/Jackson.

Whoa! That is a LOT. I was nodding until I re-read and saw BKN18 in there. I'm not letting go of that alone for anyone (available) this year. If the rest of the list gets it done, great, or I'm not interested. Of course, I'm not as high as others on Porzingis. I don't see him ever being a top 10 player, which he'd have to have that chance for me to include BKN18.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I like Porzingis, but I like Okafor, too. Things develop over time- Damon Stoudamire was a rookie of the year. Tim Duncan went first in the draft, Keith Van Horn second, Billups looked like a bust and TMac was a major project.

We don't know yet what Porzingis will be - he had a great rookie year - so did Andris Biedrins. Kirilenko was an MVP candidate before he fell off the map. I would love to get and develop KP in Boston, but he's not overrated or a sure thing.

[Banks2Pierce]

When have the Jazz ever mistreated Hayward? Just wondering what info you have.

The only possible time that I know of is when they made him go and let the market set his value. Kevin O'Connor (Jazz former GM) always did that to restricted free agents. That GM has been replaced and Dennis Lindsey handles things very differently.

You might know more than me, but you guys hired Lindsey in 2012 and Hayward signed his Charlotte offer sheet in 2014. Wiki says that O'Connor stepped down in 2012. Was there some weird sort of 2 year transition?

[SparringPartner]

When have the Jazz ever mistreated Hayward? Just wondering what info you have.

The only possible time that I know of is when they made him go and let the market set his value. Kevin O'Connor (Jazz former GM) always did that to restricted free agents. That GM has been replaced and Dennis Lindsey handles things very differently.

To me the biggest issue was not signing him to a max deal, but forcing him to find one first.

[darrendaye]

Quickly on the Porzingis idea, I do think he gets slightly over-rated. IMO, there isn't a great difference between him and Myles Turner. Maybe it's Turner whose under-rated?

[Asian Celtic]

He still needs to find that fire in his belly a might...That feeling of urgency hasn't been his strong suit to date....Hope he can work over the summer on that!

Giving somebody a large multi-year guaranteed contract is not necessarily the best way to INCREASE their motivation.

If anything, last season should've been motivation enough entering RFA.

[SparringPartner]

Just for the record...the Knicks are not trading the Zinger. Imagine Knicks fans watching this player blossom on the Boston friggin Celtics.

[Hikari]

When have the Jazz ever mistreated Hayward? Just wondering what info you have.

The only possible time that I know of is when they made him go and let the market set his value. Kevin O'Connor (Jazz former GM) always did that to restricted free agents. That GM has been replaced and Dennis Lindsey handles things very differently.

You might know more than me, but you guys hired Lindsey in 2012 and Hayward signed his Charlotte offer sheet in 2014. Wiki says that O'Connor stepped down in 2012. Was there some weird sort of 2 year transition?

Exactly Lindsey worked under O'Conner for a few years. O'Conner still handled plagyer contract and Lindsey did the other GM duties.

[SparringPartner]

When have the Jazz ever mistreated Hayward? Just wondering what info you have.

The only possible time that I know of is when they made him go and let the market set his value. Kevin O'Connor (Jazz former GM) always did that to restricted free agents. That GM has been replaced and Dennis Lindsey handles things very differently.

You might know more than me, but you guys hired Lindsey in 2012 and Hayward signed his Charlotte offer sheet in 2014. Wiki says that O'Connor stepped down in 2012. Was there some weird sort of 2 year transition?

Exactly Lindsey worked under O'Conner for a few years. O'Conner still handled plagyer contract and Lindsey did the other GM duties.

So ownership has nothing to do with extending your best player to a max deal. Basically making him find a suitor to just match anyways costing Hayward annual raises of 7.5%. Pretty embarrassing for Hayward in NBA circles I am sure. When he leaves for a team that will truly appreciate him, it will absolutely suck that it was over, if I remember correctly, $1M a year difference. Ugh...

[Hikari]

Hayward may sign with the Celtics for a lot of the reasons in this thread. But saying he will because the Jazz mistreated him is false.

There was an incident his rookie year with DWill but the. The Jazz traded DWill so I don't think there would be bad blood over that.

And I agree with the above post. I hated the practice of making RFA go set their own price. It always pissed me off that's why I remember it.

[SparringPartner]

Didn't a Utah restaurant give Gordon food poisining during the playoffs? That would never happen in Boston.