"A Nation Divided, Sports United" ~ The Equality & Other Issues Thread

[OFWGKTA]

Spoiler:

Back to Trump for a minute, pretty clear by now that his administration is going to be fatally wounded by this. Right now, right in front of us, is the biggest scandal in American history. Life-long Republicans at the highest level of our law enforcement are currently executing an Elliott Ness-scale takedown of not just a Presidential administration, but very likely a major political party.

Millions of dollars from Russian oligarchy/mafia interest flowed into the war chests of GOP SuperPACs, many of the top elected GOP's war chests, and the GOP party itself. Millions in dollars in bribes were taken by senior campaign/administration officials, via under-the-table money routed through 3rd parties, shell companies, corrupt banks and offshore accounts. The databases and emails of US government agencies, private companies and an opposing campaign were hacked by Russian government-related parties, and then routed to the Trump campaign both indirectly through Wikileaks and directly to their paid data consultants, who then weaponized the voting records (actual past votes, not party affiliations) through targeted social media campaigns funded by Putin-connected financiers.

All done in return for major concessions on our foreign policy in places like the Ukraine, and for the relief in billions in sanctions against Russia.

This is real life. Not a movie or a conspiracy theory.

It is a scandal of unreal and unprecedented proportions, and regardless of how high the legal charges end up reaching, they are already one degree of separation from Trump to several members of his most innermost circle -- several of whom are already cooperating witnesses for the FBI.

The fact of the matter is that it is now just a matter of time. Trump is DONE.

Underline it. Say it three times. Make peace with it. Very unlikely that he will be President a year from today, and even that is a stretch. Once the GOP in Congress gets any sort of tax cuts passed through, they are going to run from this guy in droves.

Getcha popcorn ready, fellas. We ain't never seen anything like this before.

Slightly OT, but, Cave, what are your main news sources? I always appreciate your posts and info, but wonder how/where you get it all (and still manage to find the time to burn the GB to the ground when it strikes your fancy).

Mostly, I don't consume the "news", which as it has with sports, has largely degenerated to infotainment. I'm an educated guy with family in law enforcement, and the biggest news is often just the comments of officials themselves. Or the headlines that they are bringing in a battalion of top-level prosecutors with specific experience in going after the mafia, cybercrimes, money laundering and even who participated in Watergate.

This guy's entire administration is next-level screwed.

As to news sources, I check headlines and scan *actual* news articles on CNN, BBC, NYT and WaPo, more or less. I do not read or watch op-eds or talking heads. Maybe the Economist, maybe Friedman. I guess Maddow is all over this, but I have watched less than an hour of MSNBC and Fox News combined in my entire life. Used to watch Charlie Rose, but haven't since the election. Just give me the data, I can think for myself. I don't need the spin, and there is **** loads of it out there right now, especially from the Fox News side. LOL @ these weakass attempts to deflect with manufactured scandals about uranium and Hillary funding *legitimate* oppo research on Trump.

One of the better sources for what is happening, and what is about to happen, has actually been twitter. Gotta watch the signal to noise ratio there, but literally everything that has happened so far has been leaked by various accounts, be they rumormongers or actual reporters. Twitter whispers have become twitter shouts.

A friend texted me the other day that he felt like we had already binge-watched the whole series, and that everyone else was just getting around to the first episode. I replied, "Wait until the get to the Red Wedding."

Winter is coming, and given how arrogant and lost in the woods they have gotten, the Republicans and their voters deserve every **** bit of it. As someone who has never spent a day affiliated with a political party, there is no need to pull punches here IMO. The current version of the GOP is straight-up evil top to bottom. Worse, they are completely incompetent. Literally not one redeeming quality, even by their own standards and ideology. They are acting like bad human beings and worse Americans, and this brand of hateful, selfish, racist, no-morals, no-ideology, no-accountability, and failed foreign, domestic and economic policy BS needs to get burned alive and buried forever. They are better than that, and so are we.

Yeah it's been clear since maybe March or so how big this thing is, and how many people are **** if you've been paying attention.

[truth18]

FWIW I don't need Twitter to see the impending **** storm coming. A basic reading of the news in a historical context is enough for that.

[OFWGKTA]

Yes, the outrage over athletes taking advantage of their constitutional rights is ridiculous.

This bull **** again?

Do you have a rebuttal?

[Curmudgeon]

The Republicans are brilliant at one thing: getting reelected. They are terrible at governance, but frankly they don't care.

[165bows]

This sounds like someone that gets their news from twitter would sound like.

Meh, there are plenty of smart guys who post here. I am one of them and have multiple degrees from top schools, not the University of Facebook or Fox News State.

Yes, you must obviously pay great heed to the signal-to-noise ratio on twitter, just as we do on this board with countless basketball rumors. I mean, how many trades have broken on twitter? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here, it's just a medium. If were are talking D3ADMIK3 or whatever his name was, yes, not credible on the Celts. But there are other accounts who have been veritable oracles, and in the bigger picture, little has happened that hasn't been rumored widely beforehand on twitter.

I am curious as to what YOU think is happening here, though. Do you get the severity of what is transpiring? At the very least, we are talking about his campaign manager and his former National Security Advisor going to prison (and it won't be the least). Manafort and Flynn are the equivalent of Karl Rove and Condi Rice for George W Bush, or Kissinger for Nixon in just Flynn's case.

This is extraordinary. People are wearing wires and cooperating with the FBI. You can read the source documents of these indictments yourself online (I recommend Twitter, if that's not too low-brow for you). We are talking money laundering from the Russians, bribes and secret meetings with hostile foreign governments. From an FBI investigation led by lifelong Republicans appointed by George Bush, and not Hillary or CNN.

So, I ask you, what do YOU think is happening here?

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

[DarkAzcura]

This sounds like someone that gets their news from twitter would sound like.

Meh, there are plenty of smart guys who post here. I am one of them and have multiple degrees from top schools, not the University of Facebook or Fox News State.

Yes, you must obviously pay great heed to the signal-to-noise ratio on twitter, just as we do on this board with countless basketball rumors. I mean, how many trades have broken on twitter? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here, it's just a medium. If were are talking D3ADMIK3 or whatever his name was, yes, not credible on the Celts. But there are other accounts who have been veritable oracles, and in the bigger picture, little has happened that hasn't been rumored widely beforehand on twitter.

I am curious as to what YOU think is happening here, though. Do you get the severity of what is transpiring? At the very least, we are talking about his campaign manager and his former National Security Advisor going to prison (and it won't be the least). Manafort and Flynn are the equivalent of Karl Rove and Condi Rice for George W Bush, or Kissinger for Nixon in just Flynn's case.

This is extraordinary. People are wearing wires and cooperating with the FBI. You can read the source documents of these indictments yourself online (I recommend Twitter, if that's not too low-brow for you). We are talking money laundering from the Russians, bribes and secret meetings with hostile foreign governments. From an FBI investigation led by lifelong Republicans appointed by George Bush, and not Hillary or CNN.

So, I ask you, what do YOU think is happening here?

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

I really don't think he is being that dramatic about how selfish and evil the current GOP is. I'm blown away at the amount of people who turn a blind eye to race issues in that party, and that's just one topic (beyond the whole Russian corruption situation) that doesn't even cover the fact that they are pretty much turning a blind eye to every single minority group issue (women, LGBT, etc). I'm at the point where I consider most people who support the current GOP to either being incredibly ignorant, selfish, or straight up evil.

[canman1971]

Both parties are truly horrible, but as 165 says, it's always been that way. Here is a 1836 speech from the one and only Davey Crockett, 2 term member of the HOR. Sure some of the language is dated, but that could be applied as much today than back in 1836.

“Promise all that is asked,” said I, “and more if you can think of any thing. Offer to build a bridge or a church, to divide a county, create a batch of new offices, make a turnpike, or any thing they like. Promises cost nothing, therefore deny nobody who has a vote or sufficient influence to obtain one.
“Get up on all occasions, and sometimes on no occasion at all, and make long-winded speeches, though composed of nothing else than wind—talk of your devotion to your country, your modesty and disinterestedness, or on any such fanciful subject. Rail against taxes of all kinds, office-holders, and bad harvest weather; and wind up with a flourish about the heroes who fought and bled for our liberties in the times that tried men’s souls. To be sure you run the risk of being considered a bladder of wind, or an empty barrel, but never mind that, you will find enough of the same fraternity to keep you in countenance.
“If any charity be going forward, be at the top of it, provided it is to be advertised publicly; if not, it isn’t worth your while. None but a fool would place his candle under a bushel on such an occasion.
“These few directions,” said I, “if properly attended to, will do your business; and when once elected, why a fig for… the promises, the bridges, the churches, the taxes, the offices, and the subscriptions, for it is absolutely necessary to forget all these before you can be-come a thorough-going politician, and a patriot of the first water.”

http://www.aei.org/publication/whiskey-long-winded-speeches-davy-crocketts-election-advice/

[truth18]

Meh, there are plenty of smart guys who post here. I am one of them and have multiple degrees from top schools, not the University of Facebook or Fox News State.

Yes, you must obviously pay great heed to the signal-to-noise ratio on twitter, just as we do on this board with countless basketball rumors. I mean, how many trades have broken on twitter? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here, it's just a medium. If were are talking D3ADMIK3 or whatever his name was, yes, not credible on the Celts. But there are other accounts who have been veritable oracles, and in the bigger picture, little has happened that hasn't been rumored widely beforehand on twitter.

I am curious as to what YOU think is happening here, though. Do you get the severity of what is transpiring? At the very least, we are talking about his campaign manager and his former National Security Advisor going to prison (and it won't be the least). Manafort and Flynn are the equivalent of Karl Rove and Condi Rice for George W Bush, or Kissinger for Nixon in just Flynn's case.

This is extraordinary. People are wearing wires and cooperating with the FBI. You can read the source documents of these indictments yourself online (I recommend Twitter, if that's not too low-brow for you). We are talking money laundering from the Russians, bribes and secret meetings with hostile foreign governments. From an FBI investigation led by lifelong Republicans appointed by George Bush, and not Hillary or CNN.

So, I ask you, what do YOU think is happening here?

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

I really don't think he is being that dramatic about how selfish and evil the current GOP is. I'm blown away at the amount of people who turn a blind eye to race issues in that party, and that's just one topic (beyond the whole Russian corruption situation). I'm at the point where I consider most people who support the current GOP to either being incredibly ignorant, selfish, or straight up evil.

I think he's being dramatic about them being caught.

These guys rarely pay the price as Bows said.

These people on Twitter aren't in the room with Mueller.

[canman1971]

Anyone have an opinion on the new plan? Despite being a social studies teacher, I really dislike talking about economics. I think they make the tax code way too complicated so the rich, who have tax lawyers, can manipulate it.

[DarkAzcura]

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

I really don't think he is being that dramatic about how selfish and evil the current GOP is. I'm blown away at the amount of people who turn a blind eye to race issues in that party, and that's just one topic (beyond the whole Russian corruption situation). I'm at the point where I consider most people who support the current GOP to either being incredibly ignorant, selfish, or straight up evil.

I think he's being dramatic about them being caught.

These guys rarely pay the price as Bows said.

True, I'm pretty cynical in regards to them getting caught, but if they do, they deserve everything coming to them. Meaning I don't think Cave is dramatizing the issue, but he is probably wrong about it going anywhere unfortunately.

EDIT: I will say there has been more smoke to this fire than I thought there would be so that's..good.

[OFWGKTA]

I really don't think he is being that dramatic about how selfish and evil the current GOP is. I'm blown away at the amount of people who turn a blind eye to race issues in that party, and that's just one topic (beyond the whole Russian corruption situation). I'm at the point where I consider most people who support the current GOP to either being incredibly ignorant, selfish, or straight up evil.

I think he's being dramatic about them being caught.

These guys rarely pay the price as Bows said.

True, I'm pretty cynical in regards to them getting caught, but if they do, they deserve everything coming to them. Meaning I don't think Cave is dramatizing the issue, but he is probably wrong about it going anywhere unfortunately.

EDIT: I will say there has been more smoke to this fire than I thought there would be so that's..good.

Quite possibly the greatest legal team ever assembled is investigating them. They're going down, it's not about if anymore, but when.

[165bows]

Meh, there are plenty of smart guys who post here. I am one of them and have multiple degrees from top schools, not the University of Facebook or Fox News State.

Yes, you must obviously pay great heed to the signal-to-noise ratio on twitter, just as we do on this board with countless basketball rumors. I mean, how many trades have broken on twitter? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here, it's just a medium. If were are talking D3ADMIK3 or whatever his name was, yes, not credible on the Celts. But there are other accounts who have been veritable oracles, and in the bigger picture, little has happened that hasn't been rumored widely beforehand on twitter.

I am curious as to what YOU think is happening here, though. Do you get the severity of what is transpiring? At the very least, we are talking about his campaign manager and his former National Security Advisor going to prison (and it won't be the least). Manafort and Flynn are the equivalent of Karl Rove and Condi Rice for George W Bush, or Kissinger for Nixon in just Flynn's case.

This is extraordinary. People are wearing wires and cooperating with the FBI. You can read the source documents of these indictments yourself online (I recommend Twitter, if that's not too low-brow for you). We are talking money laundering from the Russians, bribes and secret meetings with hostile foreign governments. From an FBI investigation led by lifelong Republicans appointed by George Bush, and not Hillary or CNN.

So, I ask you, what do YOU think is happening here?

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

I really don't think he is being that dramatic about how selfish and evil the current GOP is. I'm blown away at the amount of people who turn a blind eye to race issues in that party, and that's just one topic (beyond the whole Russian corruption situation) that doesn't even cover the fact that they are pretty much turning a blind eye to every single minority group issue (women, LGBT, etc). I'm at the point where I consider most people who support the current GOP to either being incredibly ignorant, selfish, or straight up evil.

This is basically the over-dramatism that I am referring to. There was real concern about what would happen going forward a year ago from people in that community, and I agree, rightly so. But most of the fears were way overblown (legal gay marriage going away being the primary one), so to continue to hold these intense views about people being evil is a bit much.

I'm not telling anyone what to believe or like, but this whole 'evil' thing is dramatic IMO.

[jordb2k7]

Spoiler:

Back to Trump for a minute, pretty clear by now that his administration is going to be fatally wounded by this. Right now, right in front of us, is the biggest scandal in American history. Life-long Republicans at the highest level of our law enforcement are currently executing an Elliott Ness-scale takedown of not just a Presidential administration, but very likely a major political party.

Millions of dollars from Russian oligarchy/mafia interest flowed into the war chests of GOP SuperPACs, many of the top elected GOP's war chests, and the GOP party itself. Millions in dollars in bribes were taken by senior campaign/administration officials, via under-the-table money routed through 3rd parties, shell companies, corrupt banks and offshore accounts. The databases and emails of US government agencies, private companies and an opposing campaign were hacked by Russian government-related parties, and then routed to the Trump campaign both indirectly through Wikileaks and directly to their paid data consultants, who then weaponized the voting records (actual past votes, not party affiliations) through targeted social media campaigns funded by Putin-connected financiers.

All done in return for major concessions on our foreign policy in places like the Ukraine, and for the relief in billions in sanctions against Russia.

This is real life. Not a movie or a conspiracy theory.

It is a scandal of unreal and unprecedented proportions, and regardless of how high the legal charges end up reaching, they are already one degree of separation from Trump to several members of his most innermost circle -- several of whom are already cooperating witnesses for the FBI.

The fact of the matter is that it is now just a matter of time. Trump is DONE.

Underline it. Say it three times. Make peace with it. Very unlikely that he will be President a year from today, and even that is a stretch. Once the GOP in Congress gets any sort of tax cuts passed through, they are going to run from this guy in droves.

Getcha popcorn ready, fellas. We ain't never seen anything like this before.

Slightly OT, but, Cave, what are your main news sources? I always appreciate your posts and info, but wonder how/where you get it all (and still manage to find the time to burn the GB to the ground when it strikes your fancy).

Mostly, I don't consume the "news", which as it has with sports, has largely degenerated to infotainment. I'm an educated guy with family in law enforcement, and the biggest news is often just the comments of officials themselves. Or the headlines that they are bringing in a battalion of top-level prosecutors with specific experience in going after the mafia, cybercrimes, money laundering and even who participated in Watergate.

This guy's entire administration is next-level screwed.

As to news sources, I check headlines and scan *actual* news articles on CNN, BBC, NYT and WaPo, more or less. I do not read or watch op-eds or talking heads. Maybe the Economist, maybe Friedman. I guess Maddow is all over this, but I have watched less than an hour of MSNBC and Fox News combined in my entire life. Used to watch Charlie Rose, but haven't since the election. Just give me the data, I can think for myself. I don't need the spin, and there is **** loads of it out there right now, especially from the Fox News side. LOL @ these weakass attempts to deflect with manufactured scandals about uranium and Hillary funding *legitimate* oppo research on Trump.

One of the better sources for what is happening, and what is about to happen, has actually been twitter. Gotta watch the signal to noise ratio there, but literally everything that has happened so far has been leaked by various accounts, be they rumormongers or actual reporters. Twitter whispers have become twitter shouts.

A friend texted me the other day that he felt like we had already binge-watched the whole series, and that everyone else was just getting around to the first episode. I replied, "Wait until the get to the Red Wedding."

Winter is coming, and given how arrogant and lost in the woods they have gotten, the Republicans and their voters deserve every **** bit of it. As someone who has never spent a day affiliated with a political party, there is no need to pull punches here IMO. The current version of the GOP is straight-up evil top to bottom. Worse, they are completely incompetent. Literally not one redeeming quality, even by their own standards and ideology. They are acting like bad human beings and worse Americans, and this brand of hateful, selfish, racist, no-morals, no-ideology, no-accountability, and failed foreign, domestic and economic policy BS needs to get burned alive and buried forever. They are better than that, and so are we.

Jesus this is prime cave stuff...I agree with all of it bravo.

[fallguy]

Spoiler:

Back to Trump for a minute, pretty clear by now that his administration is going to be fatally wounded by this. Right now, right in front of us, is the biggest scandal in American history. Life-long Republicans at the highest level of our law enforcement are currently executing an Elliott Ness-scale takedown of not just a Presidential administration, but very likely a major political party.

Millions of dollars from Russian oligarchy/mafia interest flowed into the war chests of GOP SuperPACs, many of the top elected GOP's war chests, and the GOP party itself. Millions in dollars in bribes were taken by senior campaign/administration officials, via under-the-table money routed through 3rd parties, shell companies, corrupt banks and offshore accounts. The databases and emails of US government agencies, private companies and an opposing campaign were hacked by Russian government-related parties, and then routed to the Trump campaign both indirectly through Wikileaks and directly to their paid data consultants, who then weaponized the voting records (actual past votes, not party affiliations) through targeted social media campaigns funded by Putin-connected financiers.

All done in return for major concessions on our foreign policy in places like the Ukraine, and for the relief in billions in sanctions against Russia.

This is real life. Not a movie or a conspiracy theory.

It is a scandal of unreal and unprecedented proportions, and regardless of how high the legal charges end up reaching, they are already one degree of separation from Trump to several members of his most innermost circle -- several of whom are already cooperating witnesses for the FBI.

The fact of the matter is that it is now just a matter of time. Trump is DONE.

Underline it. Say it three times. Make peace with it. Very unlikely that he will be President a year from today, and even that is a stretch. Once the GOP in Congress gets any sort of tax cuts passed through, they are going to run from this guy in droves.

Getcha popcorn ready, fellas. We ain't never seen anything like this before.

Slightly OT, but, Cave, what are your main news sources? I always appreciate your posts and info, but wonder how/where you get it all (and still manage to find the time to burn the GB to the ground when it strikes your fancy).

Mostly, I don't consume the "news", which as it has with sports, has largely degenerated to infotainment. I'm an educated guy with family in law enforcement, and the biggest news is often just the comments of officials themselves. Or the headlines that they are bringing in a battalion of top-level prosecutors with specific experience in going after the mafia, cybercrimes, money laundering and even who participated in Watergate.

This guy's entire administration is next-level screwed.

As to news sources, I check headlines and scan *actual* news articles on CNN, BBC, NYT and WaPo, more or less. I do not read or watch op-eds or talking heads. Maybe the Economist, maybe Friedman. I guess Maddow is all over this, but I have watched less than an hour of MSNBC and Fox News combined in my entire life. Used to watch Charlie Rose, but haven't since the election. Just give me the data, I can think for myself. I don't need the spin, and there is **** loads of it out there right now, especially from the Fox News side. LOL @ these weakass attempts to deflect with manufactured scandals about uranium and Hillary funding *legitimate* oppo research on Trump.

One of the better sources for what is happening, and what is about to happen, has actually been twitter. Gotta watch the signal to noise ratio there, but literally everything that has happened so far has been leaked by various accounts, be they rumormongers or actual reporters. Twitter whispers have become twitter shouts.

A friend texted me the other day that he felt like we had already binge-watched the whole series, and that everyone else was just getting around to the first episode. I replied, "Wait until the get to the Red Wedding."

Winter is coming, and given how arrogant and lost in the woods they have gotten, the Republicans and their voters deserve every **** bit of it. As someone who has never spent a day affiliated with a political party, there is no need to pull punches here IMO. The current version of the GOP is straight-up evil top to bottom. Worse, they are completely incompetent. Literally not one redeeming quality, even by their own standards and ideology. They are acting like bad human beings and worse Americans, and this brand of hateful, selfish, racist, no-morals, no-ideology, no-accountability, and failed foreign, domestic and economic policy BS needs to get burned alive and buried forever. They are better than that, and so are we.

You write really vibrantly, especially when all righteous.

Loved this.

[DarkAzcura]

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

I really don't think he is being that dramatic about how selfish and evil the current GOP is. I'm blown away at the amount of people who turn a blind eye to race issues in that party, and that's just one topic (beyond the whole Russian corruption situation) that doesn't even cover the fact that they are pretty much turning a blind eye to every single minority group issue (women, LGBT, etc). I'm at the point where I consider most people who support the current GOP to either being incredibly ignorant, selfish, or straight up evil.

This is basically the over-dramatism that I am referring to. There was real concern about what would happen going forward a year ago from people in that community, and I agree, rightly so. But most of the fears were way overblown (legal gay marriage going away being the primary one), so to continue to hold these intense views about people being evil is a bit much.

I'm not telling anyone what to believe or like, but this whole 'evil' thing is dramatic IMO.

It's not happening because the courts are shutting this stuff down left and right, but that doesn't absolve the republicans of blame for attempting to do some truly awful things. As a minority who had to watch her mom rush to get her citizenship over the last year even though she has a green card, just because Trump and the republicans are seriously ridiculously xenophobic completely shades my view point. Maybe you would say that's overkill for my mom to do, but that was a post to give you an idea of how immigrants feel right now.

Also I didn't say they were all evil. I said they were either ignorant, selfish, or evil. If a republican doesn't have questionable views on race issues, I don't consider that person evil, but I do think the core of the party has questionable views engrained in them which makes support for that core either ignorant or morally evil. I think there are plenty of republicans who don't realize how questionable the core of their party is from a morality stand point or do not even truly understand what racism is, which reeks of ignorance to me. Then there are those who totally buy into it (the alt-right), and I consider those people evil, which unfortunately is the Trump administration.

Trump still has a what? Like 65+% approval rate with the republican base? If his approval rate is that high even with all the xenophobic and racist stuff he has tried to pull, forgive me for calling out the party for being partly evil.

I don't think it is dramatic at all. I think not calling it for what it is, is the real issue. That's what allows republicans to go around fear mongering about immigrants and the like. We need to call it evil. It just is. We can't have a party in this country that tries to push these viewpoints as though it is a rightful political opinion.

[Captain_Caveman]

This sounds like someone that gets their news from twitter would sound like.

Meh, there are plenty of smart guys who post here. I am one of them and have multiple degrees from top schools, not the University of Facebook or Fox News State.

Yes, you must obviously pay great heed to the signal-to-noise ratio on twitter, just as we do on this board with countless basketball rumors. I mean, how many trades have broken on twitter? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here, it's just a medium. If were are talking D3ADMIK3 or whatever his name was, yes, not credible on the Celts. But there are other accounts who have been veritable oracles, and in the bigger picture, little has happened that hasn't been rumored widely beforehand on twitter.

I am curious as to what YOU think is happening here, though. Do you get the severity of what is transpiring? At the very least, we are talking about his campaign manager and his former National Security Advisor going to prison (and it won't be the least). Manafort and Flynn are the equivalent of Karl Rove and Condi Rice for George W Bush, or Kissinger for Nixon in just Flynn's case.

This is extraordinary. People are wearing wires and cooperating with the FBI. You can read the source documents of these indictments yourself online (I recommend Twitter, if that's not too low-brow for you). We are talking money laundering from the Russians, bribes and secret meetings with hostile foreign governments. From an FBI investigation led by lifelong Republicans appointed by George Bush, and not Hillary or CNN.

So, I ask you, what do YOU think is happening here?

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

All good. I have a degree in History from Harvard with a special concentration in Government. There is no equivalent in our past of a major political candidate working with a hostile foreign government in exchange for giving them favorable policy. 100 years ago, these guys would have already been put to a firing squad.

As to Republicans, they are lost in the woods and have been for a while. From fighting tooth and nail against climate change to starting preemptive wars under false pretenses to supporting tax windfalls for the top 0.1% at the expense of everyone else to getting triggered over protests by clearly oppressed people, they are literally on the wrong side of every major challenge of our time. That's literally no hyperbole, just a statement of facts. There is literally not one redeeming aspect of the current GOP platform.

As a moderate who would prefer two strong parties, I say they are cordially invited to get their heads out of their asses and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

[OFWGKTA]

Click link for source links, I'm not gonna work that hard:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/797kzj/discussion_thread_special_counsel_mueller_files/dozt0rp/


Exhibit 1: Opinion of Syrian airstrikes under Obama vs. Trump. Source Data 1, Source Data 2 and Article for Context


Exhibit 2: Opinion of the NFL after large amounts of players began kneeling during the anthem to protest racism. Article for Context (viewing source data requires purchasing Morning Consult package)


Exhibit 3: Opinion of ESPN after they fired a conservative broadcast analyst. Article for Context (viewing source data requires purchasing YouGov’s “BrandIndex” package)


Exhibit 4: Opinion of Vladimir Putin after Trump began praising Russia during the election. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 5: Opinion of "Obamacare" vs. "Kynect" (Kentucky's implementation of Obamacare). Kentuckians feel differently about the policy depending on the name. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 6: Christians (particularly evangelicals) became monumentally more tolerant of private immoral conduct among politicians once Trump became the GOP nominee. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 7: White Evangelicals cared less about how religious a candidate was once Trump became the GOP nominee. (Same source and article as previous exhibit.)


Exhibit 8: Republicans were far more likely to embrace a certain policy if they knew Trump was for it—whether the policy was liberal or conservative. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 9: Republicans became far more opposed to gun control when Obama took office. Democrats have remained consistent. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 10: Republicans started to think universities had a negative impact on the country after Trump entered the primary. Democrats remain consistent. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 11: Wisconsin Republicans felt the economy improve by 85 approval points the day Trump was sworn in. Graph also shows some Democratic bias, but not nearly as bad. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 12: Republicans became deeply negative about trade agreements when Trump became the GOP frontrunner. Democrats remain consistent. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 13: 10% fewer Republicans believed the wealthy weren't paying enough in taxes once a billionaire became their president. Democrats remain fairly consistent. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 14: Republicans suddenly feel very comfortable making major purchases now that Trump is president. Democrats don't feel more or less comfortable than before. Article for Context (viewing source data requires purchasing Gallup's Advanced Analytics package)


Exhibit 15: Democrats have had a consistently improving outlook on the economy, including after Trump's victory. Republicans? A 30-point spike once Trump won. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 16: Shift in opinion of the media's utility for keeping politicians in check. Democrats reacted a bit after Trump took office (+15 points), but Republicans had a 35-point nose dive. Source Data and Article for Context


Exhibit 17: Republicans had an evenly split opinion in April regarding whether James Comey should be fired. After he was fired, they became overwhelmingly in favor. Source Data 1, Source Data 2 and Article for Context

[theman]

Yes, the outrage over athletes taking advantage of their constitutional rights is ridiculous.

This bull **** again?

Do you have a rebuttal?

No one is being imprisoned for protesting the anthem. How does disagreeing with what the players are doing violate their rights? The people stating their outrage have a first amendment right as well or did you forget about that. And if the owners want to bench players for acting like fools they certainly have that right as well.

[OFWGKTA]

This bull **** again?

Do you have a rebuttal?

No one is being imprisoned for protesting the anthem. How does disagreeing with what the players are doing violate their rights? The people stating their outrage have a first amendment right as well or did you forget about that. And if the owners want to bench players for acting like fools they certainly have that right as well.

So you're saying there's nothing wrong with what the players are doing, right?

[djFan71]

Mostly, I don't consume the "news", which as it has with sports, has largely degenerated to infotainment.
...
As to news sources, I check headlines and scan *actual* news articles on CNN, BBC, NYT and WaPo, more or less. I do not read or watch op-eds or talking heads. Maybe the Economist, maybe Friedman. I guess Maddow is all over this, but I have watched less than an hour of MSNBC and Fox News combined in my entire life. Used to watch Charlie Rose, but haven't since the election. Just give me the data, I can think for myself. I don't need the spin, and there is **** loads of it out there right now, especially from the Fox News side. LOL @ these weakass attempts to deflect with manufactured scandals about uranium and Hillary funding *legitimate* oppo research on Trump.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the time. This is my take as well, esp the bolded parts, so I'm always interested in what other people are consuming to get the actual data/facts. I've actually gotten lazier lately and haven't pursued it as diligently as I have in the past. It's easy enough to keep up with policy proposals,etc, and know where I stand on most issues. It's things like this, Benghazi, WMDs where it's harder to sort out real data from spin, disinformation, etc. I think that's when people just believe the people they are prone to believing - liberal\conservative\etc. I'll lean on the NYT to figure that out for me, but someone else will go to Fox.

One of the better sources for what is happening, and what is about to happen, has actually been twitter. Gotta watch the signal to noise ratio there, but literally everything that has happened so far has been leaked by various accounts, be they rumormongers or actual reporters. Twitter whispers have become twitter shouts.

A friend texted me the other day that he felt like we had already binge-watched the whole series, and that everyone else was just getting around to the first episode. I replied, "Wait until the get to the Red Wedding."

I haven't made the jump yet, but might have to. I spend enough time on the computer / phone, that it just hasn't appealed to me...

Winter is coming, and given how arrogant and lost in the woods they have gotten, the Republicans and their voters deserve every **** bit of it. As someone who has never spent a day affiliated with a political party, there is no need to pull punches here IMO. The current version of the GOP is straight-up evil top to bottom. Worse, they are completely incompetent. Literally not one redeeming quality, even by their own standards and ideology. They are acting like bad human beings and worse Americans, and this brand of hateful, selfish, racist, no-morals, no-ideology, no-accountability, and failed foreign, domestic and economic policy BS needs to get burned alive and buried forever. They are better than that, and so are we.

Yeah, my take as well. I feel like some of them have to want to do good (right?), but just can't stand up to the majority that is bankrolled to not allow it. You get the rare few that eventually draw the line (health care), but even then it was only, what, 3-4 people who thought yanking health care from 10s of millions of Americans without a plan was a bad idea?