All things Draft Pick. #3

[LarryBirdsFingr]

How does that justify the return?

You can still take Fultz, let Philly pick your guy, if he's there, and squeeze more out of them than a single pick with protection. If he's not there, you can still get a ransom for Fultz.

Now you may not even get your guy because the Lakers can take him. Not seeing the positive outlook...

Can't just "get fultz" when your gm isn't willing to pick him.

That seems to be the real issue here.

Why would you not be willing to pick the consensus best player, that any lottery team would give an arm and a leg for?

So what, he made this trade out of stubbornness? That's even worse.

In the media he is the consensus #1 pick, among gms and scouts, no, not so much.

[CelticsLV]

The point of it all is that it's not a fair return, protection or no protection. And save the political crap, not the place

You have the #1 draft pick and the prospect any team in the lottery would kill to have. Yet you can only come away with a two spot drop and a future pick that may end up being just another Marcus Smart? That's unacceptable.

Perfectly put. That's the worst case scenario, but a scenario that could happen nonetheless.

I mean, I get trying to spin this in a positive light, but the return here is abysmal.

Does anyone here seriously think the Sixers would even consider trading Fultz to say the Suns for their 4th and their 2018 pick? Fat freakin chance.

Yet here some are, saying a 3rd and a lottery ticket is fair value. Give me a break...

And Fultz becomes D'angelo Russel 2.0 or worse is also a scenario. What are you trying to tell? You convinced yourself Fultz is 100% future superstar and now you freak out.

[BigTrade92]

I don't have a problem with people being pessimistic about the trade or thinking we should have gotten more.

I'm specifically siting him using the term "protected" pick to try and drive emphasis towards his point when in actuality the protection of the pick is completely counter to his point.

Trump uses the same tactic all the time. If it isn't lying, it's only semantically so.

The point of it all is that it's not a fair return, protection or no protection. And save the political crap, not the place.

You have the #1 draft pick and the prospect any team in the lottery would kill to have.

Yet you can only come away with a two spot drop and a future pick that may end up being just another Marcus Smart?

That's an unacceptable return, plain and simple.

I thought the trade was for a future pick that may end up being just another Michael Jordan? Now I see where the disagreement is...

Stop using hyperbole. They traded Markelle Fultz for pick three and another likely high lottery pick.

You keep implying that every other team must have been falling over themselves to get Fultz, but who?

- the Lakers don't have an asset, outside of perhaps Ingram, that is worth more than the LAL/SAC pick.
- the Suns haven't shown any indication that they are interested in Fultz. Plus Bender, Chriss, Warren etc are all worth less than the pick.
- 3 and LAL/SAC is worth more than 5/10. No reason to believe they would offer more than that.

So what are these magical trades that everyone MUST have been willing to do that Ainge missed the boat on?

Brother, the problem is the return. You have the #1 pick, you have all the leverage. To accept one extra pick that may be a total flame out and a move down two slots to select a player that's worth less in the eyes of the other lottery teams isn't fair value.

Again, do you think the Sixers would accept the Suns 4th pick and their 2018 pick for Fultz? Yeah, probably not.

[The Corey's]

Ball can't shoot either but apparently can do everything else.

Maybe god will gift him to us and we can walk away with our heads held high

[jfs1000d]

Yeah, bigtrade's was the one I posted yesterday.

Well... and grandtheftrondo's posts, too.

Wish we could go back to the original KG trade threads. There were months of them between the draft and the actual trade, and they were chock full of the worst takes ever written on anything lol. Board was overwhelmingly against that trade. So much so, that I created an account just to tell people they were absolutely **** crazy lol.

The KG trade was on one hand a great move and on the other hand a cautionary tale. A solitary championship is great...multiples is better. It was a last ditch move and it paid off with a title, but that was 10 years ago.

Nothing remotely cautionary about it. If the goal is multiple titles with ANY NBA path, you and the people who think like that (seen several now) are very likely to be massively disappointed. The only way you are likely to come away with multiple titles is by stumbling into a LeBron or Durant type completely absurd all-time, historical talent. And Markelle Fultz sure as hell isn't that.

You need to re-adjust your expectations if you think there's any path the Celtics can take that makes several championships the likely outcome. The NBA isn't like other sports where you can just be really smart and build a potential multiple time champ. You need to get that absurd luck by stumbling your way into that talent through things completely out of your control to build the kind of team you are talking about.

Multiple NBA titles? Wtf? We win one, it is worth it. We had a legit 4 year run at it and we're a stupid Derek Fischer and Ron Artest out of their ass 3s from 2.

That was worth it 1000000000000 times. People and their dynasty talk. Bird only win 3 titles. Lebron is 3-5. Give me a break.


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[sam_I_am]

To the complainers:

You should be thankful the sixers were dumb enough to give us the extra pick.

Why you ask?

Danny was 100% ready to choose a player at #1 who wasn't fultz, regardless of this deal.

Let that sink in, if you want to complain and bitch and moan.

With all the great posts you and others like you have made - and this one is spot on too - how is it that people who spend so much time on this site could be so clueless and know so little?

Ainge basically trade the equivalent of Brooks Lopez for Robin Lopez and a lottery pick in a loaded draft and people are losing their minds.

I'll admit, I loved Fultz' video highlights and his ability to get anywhere he wants effortlessly. But I knew as soon as somebody posted a promotional video he made that his makeup is not want Ainge wants.

[Fencer reregistered]

Another thought. Ainge may have a player he REALLY likes in 2018 (not for nothing, Demakis is hyping GOAT potential for Doncic), and this gives us the ammo to target him, even if he's projected #1 if we end up with #2 (BKN) and #3,4 or 5 (LAL).

Excellent point.

However, that's an imperfect fit with letting Philly keep the pick if it's #1 overall.

Ditto with the idea that there's some potential trade partner out there who wants as many 2018 lottery picks as he can get.

[return2glory]

To the complainers:

You should be thankful the sixers were dumb enough to give us the extra pick.

Why you ask?

Danny was 100% ready to choose a player at #1 who wasn't fultz, regardless of this deal.

Let that sink in, if you want to complain and bitch and moan.

How does that justify the return?

You can still take Fultz, let Philly pick your guy, if he's there, and squeeze more out of them than a single pick with protection. If he's not there, you can still get a ransom for Fultz.

Now you may not even get your guy because the Lakers can take him. Not seeing the positive outlook...

There is a good possibility that we don't even keep the 3rd pick, it's probably going to be moved to the Bulls. So if that's the case:

1. Ainge isn't even worried about who the Lakers take.
2. If Ainge keeps the pick, he values guys like Jackson, Ball, Tatum, and maybe even Fox about the same. So if the Lakers take Ball, Ainge takes Jackson. If Lakers take Jackson, Ainge takes Tatum or Ball.

Either way, the Celtics most likely get Butler or keep the pick and take one of Jackson, Tatum, or Ball. Then it doesn't stop there, because the Celtics most likely will still go after Hayward in free agency.

There are a lot of moving parts but the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fall into place, weather people may agree with it or not.

[mademan]

My opinion, it's not a terrible trade, Sixers probably win a little bit all things considered. I dont have the access Ainge has, so he probably knows more about Fultz than us (though both the Sixers/Lakers are gushing over him). I think you take the talent that has the highest chance at superstardom, and, to me, that Fultz. To that, I dont like the trade, but it's not horrible value.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

I was never convinced with fultz, neither was Danny. I made a post about them being undecided weeks ago.

[Cornbread]

To the complainers:

You should be thankful the sixers were dumb enough to give us the extra pick.

Why you ask?

Danny was 100% ready to choose a player at #1 who wasn't fultz, regardless of this deal.

Let that sink in, if you want to complain and bitch and moan.

How does that justify the return?

You can still take Fultz, let Philly pick your guy, if he's there, and squeeze more out of them than a single pick with protection. If he's not there, you can still get a kings ransom for Fultz.

Now you may not even get your guy because the Lakers can take him. Not seeing the positive outlook...

Or maybe it was the Celtics that initiated the trade. And while the Sixers preferred Fultz because he was a better fit, they had the top three on a similar tier.

In which case getting a premium pick and still landing the guy you want is a heist.

[The Corey's]

Do we have confirmed details or just the woj report.

He's been wrong on this story once already. Be nice if he was twice

[The Rondo Show]

Ball can't shoot either but apparently can do everything else.

Maybe god will gift him to us and we can walk away with our heads held high

Ball can shoot, but can't beat anyone off the dribble or defend quick guards. His shot looks ugly, but it's hard to argue when it always goes in. And if anything, can argue he's amongst the most ready shooters in the draft because he's already taking a bunch of his 3's from NBA range, so he's probably even better than the stats.

He can shoot and he can really pass at an absurd level. But he's also got an incredibly awkward/slow release that limits him to mostly spot up shooting and he can't beat people off the dribble consistently as a PG. 2 massive concerns that would make me pass on him.

Fox would be the PG who you could accurately say can't shoot but can do everything else. Dennis Smith Jr. is probably the best balance of the 2, ability to drive/do everything else but not have a seemingly broken jumper the way Fox's is. Problem? He's 6'2 with a 6'3 wingspan. That makes a future with Isaiah incredibly difficult to imagine. Hard to see him playing with Isaiah the way you can the bigger Fultz or Ball.

[BigTrade92]

Perfectly put. That's the worst case scenario, but a scenario that could happen nonetheless.

I mean, I get trying to spin this in a positive light, but the return here is abysmal.

Does anyone here seriously think the Sixers would even consider trading Fultz to say the Suns for their 4th and their 2018 pick? Fat freakin chance.

Yet here some are, saying a 3rd and a lottery ticket is fair value. Give me a break...

And Fultz becomes D'angelo Russel 2.0 or worse is also a scenario. What are you trying to tell? You convinced yourself Fultz is 100% future superstar and now you freak out.

Yes, I'm very big on Fultz and his ability.

I'd rather take the chance he is Russell 2.0 or that he's Harden 2.0 than to trade the pick for little in return.

[Sven]

Many of you are underestimating the value of the extra pick, and actually letting something like that go, in both of the specific drafts.

We can win the trade if we draft Jackson and Tatum and they turn out better or just as good/valuable as Fultz, straight up, without anything else. But we can also win if the pick turns out top 5 in either draft. And we can also win if we use it to get a bunch of all-stars while still maintaining our BKN 18. I can go on and on. There are a bunch of ways we come out with way more value in this trade than Philly, and a bunch more ways we can tie them and everyone can be happy.

Another way to think of Danny pulling the trigger so early is to think that it shows how confident he was in a couple things. 1. Passing on Fultz was not a big deal at all. 2. The value is exactly what he wanted, and he didn't need to waste any more than a day getting what he wanted.

We've seen Danny Ainge draw a trade negotiation out for weeks at the deadline just to say "Nah, I'm good," so when he makes a trade within a day when he has the #1 pick, I'm way more confident that he's confident in his decision, and either has something big lined up, or really doesn't think Markelle is that good. If Danny thinks Markelle is meh, and could take Tatum/Jackson/Fox instead of him for a future pick, I'm more excited about the prospects of the future pick than I am Markelle.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

To the complainers:

You should be thankful the sixers were dumb enough to give us the extra pick.

Why you ask?

Danny was 100% ready to choose a player at #1 who wasn't fultz, regardless of this deal.

Let that sink in, if you want to complain and bitch and moan.

How does that justify the return?

You can still take Fultz, let Philly pick your guy, if he's there, and squeeze more out of them than a single pick with protection. If he's not there, you can still get a kings ransom for Fultz.

Now you may not even get your guy because the Lakers can take him. Not seeing the positive outlook...

Or maybe it was the Celtics that initiated the trade. And while the Sixers preferred Fultz because he was a better fit, they had the top three on a similar tier.

In which case getting a premium pick and still landing the guy you want is a heist.

Its really that simple, others cannot see it that way.

[CelticsLV]

Ball can't shoot either but apparently can do everything else.

Maybe god will gift him to us and we can walk away with our heads held high

Ball can shoot, but can't beat anyone off the dribble or defend quick guards. His shot looks ugly, but it's hard to argue when it always goes in. And if anything, can argue he's amongst the most ready shooters in the draft because he's already taking a bunch of his 3's from NBA range, so he's probably even better than the stats.

He can shoot and he can really pass at an absurd level. But he's also got an incredibly awkward/slow release that limits him to mostly spot up shooting and he can't beat people off the dribble consistently as a PG. 2 massive concerns that would make me pass on him.

Fox would be the PG who you could accurately say can't shoot but can do everything else.

He actually has quicker release than Klay Thompson. Saw a video on youtube about his shot.

[BigTrade92]

Can't just "get fultz" when your gm isn't willing to pick him.

That seems to be the real issue here.

Why would you not be willing to pick the consensus best player, that any lottery team would give an arm and a leg for?

So what, he made this trade out of stubbornness? That's even worse.

In the media he is the consensus #1 pick, among gms and scouts, no, not so much.

Oh really? So Colangelo doesn't think he's #1? I'm sure Magic Johnson, who raved about his workout, doesn't think so either. He'd rather have Ball, I guess. Heck, I'm sure McDonough in Phoenix would've passed over Fultz too if he won the lottery....Think the Knicks pass on Fultz? Don't think so.

[jcappy]

[/quote]

Steven A. Smith, who still has ties to the Sixers, said the Bulls called the Sixers for that 3rd overall pick and they want that pick. That was a day prior to the Celtics and Sixers completing that trade. Steven A. metioned the Celtics are still interesting in Butler, so if they make that trade with Philly, look for the Celtics to move that to the Bulls in some package for Butler.

So yes, there is a good possibility that trade happens. Details will not be known, but the 3rd overall pick will most likely be involved for Butler.[/quote]

So then the cost for Butler is no first pick, no first round pick this year, plus one or more of our starters sent to Chicago. But this price is relieved somewhat by the fact that we got a future first round pick.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I was never convinced with fultz, neither was Danny. I made a post about them being undecided weeks ago.

Any reasons beyond the arguments against him we already know? Any weight put on some more than others? I saw the photo of Ainge and Fultz at not-Chipotle and it looked like Danny was babysitting. After James Young, not likely to endear him to the FO.

I'm wondering how many games the Sixers' big three are going to play hungover next year.