Celtics General Thread 2019-20, "Re-Start"

[3D Chess]

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[snowman]

I think our issue next season will be roster spots. Most of our rookies are going to take a step up next year, after getting thrown into the fire this year. They wont be spending the first half of the season learning the system and where to go on a certain play or what to do on defense.

So of course we will have Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Smart, R. Williams, G. Williams, Langford, and Edwards. They are all signed for 2021 already. I fully expect Hayward back either by opting in or getting an extension. I do expect Kanter to opt out, but will probably be offered the full MLE to stay. If he is back, then that's 11 spots taken. I expect Waters to replace Wannamaker. I think Tacko and Poirier will fight it out for a spot. I expect Semi's option picked up, but his role is being threatened by G. Will, so he could be gone. If Green can start hitting the 3 ball, he will have a better chance of staying. So we will have at most (unless a trade is made around the draft or preseason) 5 roster spots (Hayward, Wannamaker, Kanter, Semi and Green) if everyone who has the option leaves and we don't pick up Semi. And we still have Waters, Tacko, and 3 first's along with the guys who do want to come back to fit in those 5 spots. 5 spots and 10 possible players going for them. And that's if we don't bring in a FA to try out. lol

[100proof]

I think our issue next season will be roster spots. Most of our rookies are going to take a step up next year, after getting thrown into the fire this year. They wont be spending the first half of the season learning the system and where to go on a certain play or what to do on defense.

So of course we will have Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Smart, R. Williams, G. Williams, Langford, and Edwards. They are all signed for 2021 already. I fully expect Hayward back either by opting in or getting an extension. I do expect Kanter to opt out, but will probably be offered the full MLE to stay. If he is back, then that's 11 spots taken. I expect Waters to replace Wannamaker. I think Tacko and Poirier will fight it out for a spot. I expect Semi's option picked up, but his role is being threatened by G. Will, so he could be gone. If Green can start hitting the 3 ball, he will have a better chance of staying. So we will have at most (unless a trade is made around the draft or preseason) 5 roster spots (Hayward, Wannamaker, Kanter, Semi and Green) if everyone who has the option leaves and we don't pick up Semi. And we still have Waters, Tacko, and 3 first's along with the guys who do want to come back to fit in those 5 spots. 5 spots and 10 possible players going for them. And that's if we don't bring in a FA to try out. lol

I dont think the team will have the full MLE next season. And not sure what the team can do for roster spots either.

I think Kanter, Brad, Semi, Green are all gone (for nothing I might add), even though Brad and Kanter have been the bench this season in its entirety. Just salary wise and roster space wise I cannot see team being able to keep anyone not named Kanter, and Kanter would be a fool not to go for more money.

Kemba
Brown
tatum
Smart
Hayward
Theis
Grant W
Robert W
Edwards
Waters
LLE player
rookie
rookie
rookie
rookie

[prov1ml]

I know these guys are mostly all about the Benjamins, but I can't help but wonder if a part of Horford is thinking to himself that he would be happier and in a better situation if he'd had just stuck with us. Kanter should maybe take that into consideration. Also, I thought I saw on twitter that only about 6-7 teams are going to have cap space this upcoming year so maybe there won't be very many suitors lining up to throw a ton of money at him....

[100proof]

I know these guys are mostly all about the Benjamins, but I can't help but wonder if a part of Horford is thinking to himself that he would be happier and in a better situation if he'd had just stuck with us. Kanter should maybe take that into consideration. Also, I thought I saw on twitter that only about 6-7 teams are going to have cap space this upcoming year so maybe there won't be very many suitors lining up to throw a ton of money at him....

He can get full MLE.
Dont believe we will be able to offer a full mle to anyone.

[prov1ml]

I know these guys are mostly all about the Benjamins, but I can't help but wonder if a part of Horford is thinking to himself that he would be happier and in a better situation if he'd had just stuck with us. Kanter should maybe take that into consideration. Also, I thought I saw on twitter that only about 6-7 teams are going to have cap space this upcoming year so maybe there won't be very many suitors lining up to throw a ton of money at him....

He can get full MLE.
Dont believe we will be able to offer a full mle to anyone.

Oh, gotcha. I just assumed we would be able to.

[Darth Celtic]

I know these guys are mostly all about the Benjamins, but I can't help but wonder if a part of Horford is thinking to himself that he would be happier and in a better situation if he'd had just stuck with us. Kanter should maybe take that into consideration. Also, I thought I saw on twitter that only about 6-7 teams are going to have cap space this upcoming year so maybe there won't be very many suitors lining up to throw a ton of money at him....

He can get full MLE.
Dont believe we will be able to offer a full mle to anyone.

Oh, gotcha. I just assumed we would be able to.

if we use the full MLE next year it hard caps us for the tax at 139m, we are sitting at about 126m without Theis, Semi and no draft picks (we have 3 firsts). So 13m for full mle (10m) and 3 picks is unrealistic. The only way is if Hayward opts out and resigns for a long term deal starting at 25m a year. Then we would be able to use full MLE. Unlikely.

[zoyathedestroya]

Where/how can outside-of-US fans watch this?

Read on Twitter

[Parliament10]

Where/how can outside-of-US fans watch this?

Read on Twitter

You may have to catch it on Youtube, afterwards.

[cloverleaf]

A little deserved love for Theis: https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/02/10/celtics-daniel-theis-not-just-a-small-ball-center/

[Bostonic33]

Legalized sport gambling is a game changer. I totally expect the NBA salary cap to go up. Way up. This is going to make the recent re-signing of JB a steal.

Example of how the league could make money (this article is dated June/2018):

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/6/12/17372548/integrity-fee-legal-sports-gambling

I hear Massachusetts is pushing legislation on legal gambling. About 20 states has legalized gambling and 10 others are thinking about it. And why not? States love another income stream to tax. It is happening and professional teams are going to ring the cash register. (Daryl Morey can keep his job. Just put a kibosh on the tweets). This is going to be a GREAT time to be the owner of a sports franchise. And this is one of the many reasons why I think arguing about the limitation of team payroll is no longer significant.

To continue exploring this subject...

Celtics are currently valued at $3.1 Billion.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257192/NBA-Franchise-Valuations-Up-14-Percent-From-2019-To-$212-Billion-Average

Current owners bought the team back in September 2002 for $360 Million.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/9/5/16255168/nba-teams-sold-highest-record-price-all-30

Depends how you want to look at it... they realized a gain of $2.740 Billion. 761% increase of their initial investment. Roughly 13% return per year for 17.5 years of ownership. Anyway you want to put it... the owners made a whole crap load lot of money on this investment and can easily afford to pay over the salary cap if warranted. To recap... any board discussion regarding whether or not the team can afford to keep players is a "moot" point at best. So far, the owners are in sync with winning basketball. They are willing to pay for talent. It is a virtual certainty JT will get close to max on his extension if he keeps it up.

[Bleeding Green]

Legalized sport gambling is a game changer. I totally expect the NBA salary cap to go up. Way up. This is going to make the recent re-signing of JB a steal.

Example of how the league could make money (this article is dated June/2018):

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/6/12/17372548/integrity-fee-legal-sports-gambling

I hear Massachusetts is pushing legislation on legal gambling. About 20 states has legalized gambling and 10 others are thinking about it. And why not? States love another income stream to tax. It is happening and professional teams are going to ring the cash register. (Daryl Morey can keep his job. Just put a kibosh on the tweets). This is going to be a GREAT time to be the owner of a sports franchise. And this is one of the many reasons why I think arguing about the limitation of team payroll is no longer significant.

To continue exploring this subject...

Celtics are currently valued at $3.1 Billion.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257192/NBA-Franchise-Valuations-Up-14-Percent-From-2019-To-$212-Billion-Average

Current owners bought the team back in September 2002 for $360 Million.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/9/5/16255168/nba-teams-sold-highest-record-price-all-30

Depends how you want to look at it... they realized a gain of $2.740 Billion. 761% increase of their initial investment. Roughly 13% return per year for 17.5 years of ownership. Anyway you want to put it... the owners made a whole crap load lot of money on this investment and can easily afford to pay over the salary cap if warranted. To recap... any board discussion regarding whether or not the team can afford to keep players is a "moot" point at best. So far, the owners are in sync with winning basketball. They are willing to pay for talent. It is a virtual certainty JT will get close to max on his extension if he keeps it up.

I don't think they have an issue with paying the tax, but if they have to pay multiple years in a row there are repeater taxes and you can end up spending several hundred million in a single year pretty easily if you don't nip it in the bud early. I'd rather they maintain a healthy roster and not be forced in three years to have to trade Jayson Tatum. This roster is set up to compete for 10+ years as well as any roster I've ever seen, no need to start paying the tax now with no great way of getting below the tax in the near future.

Jayson Tatum is 100 pct getting the max, not even a discussion should be had about it.

[Fencer reregistered]

I think our issue next season will be roster spots. Most of our rookies are going to take a step up next year, after getting thrown into the fire this year. They wont be spending the first half of the season learning the system and where to go on a certain play or what to do on defense.

So of course we will have Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Smart, R. Williams, G. Williams, Langford, and Edwards. They are all signed for 2021 already. I fully expect Hayward back either by opting in or getting an extension. I do expect Kanter to opt out, but will probably be offered the full MLE to stay. If he is back, then that's 11 spots taken. I expect Waters to replace Wannamaker. I think Tacko and Poirier will fight it out for a spot. I expect Semi's option picked up, but his role is being threatened by G. Will, so he could be gone. If Green can start hitting the 3 ball, he will have a better chance of staying. So we will have at most (unless a trade is made around the draft or preseason) 5 roster spots (Hayward, Wannamaker, Kanter, Semi and Green) if everyone who has the option leaves and we don't pick up Semi. And we still have Waters, Tacko, and 3 first's along with the guys who do want to come back to fit in those 5 spots. 5 spots and 10 possible players going for them. And that's if we don't bring in a FA to try out. lol

You're right that consolidation is an issue. Most of the roster spots that seem likely to open up are already spoken for:
Hayward --> likely Hayward himself, maybe an open spot
Kanter --> maybe Kanter himself, maybe an open spot
Poirier --> maybe Poirier himself (he's under contract), maybe Tacko
Wanamaker --> Waters
Semi --> maybe Semi himself (he's under contract if you think his team option is a bargain), maybe an open spot
Green --> maybe Green himself (he has a non-guaranteed contract for next year), but in this crunch more likely an open spot

The most comfortable kind of solution is to bundle a few end-of-benchers and picks into a consolidation trade. But Ainge doesn't have a great track record of actually pulling such deals off. And by the way, where would that acquired player fit into the rotation?

[zoyathedestroya]

Heading into tonight's games, Celtics have 7 guys in top 100 of ESPN RPM (although I don't think this should be used for rankings):

• Grant at #95, just ahead of old friend Al Horford
• Jaylen at #92, just behind the flat-earther drama queen
• Theis at #81, two spots ahead of Anthony Davis
• Hayward at #73, just behind crybaby Embiid
• Kanter at #60
• Kemba at #45, just ahead of ROTY Ben Simmons
• Tatum at #5, just being awesome

After Smart appears at #128, everyone else is #208 (Langford) or worse.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[100proof]

Legalized sport gambling is a game changer. I totally expect the NBA salary cap to go up. Way up. This is going to make the recent re-signing of JB a steal.

Example of how the league could make money (this article is dated June/2018):

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/6/12/17372548/integrity-fee-legal-sports-gambling

I hear Massachusetts is pushing legislation on legal gambling. About 20 states has legalized gambling and 10 others are thinking about it. And why not? States love another income stream to tax. It is happening and professional teams are going to ring the cash register. (Daryl Morey can keep his job. Just put a kibosh on the tweets). This is going to be a GREAT time to be the owner of a sports franchise. And this is one of the many reasons why I think arguing about the limitation of team payroll is no longer significant.

To continue exploring this subject...

Celtics are currently valued at $3.1 Billion.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257192/NBA-Franchise-Valuations-Up-14-Percent-From-2019-To-$212-Billion-Average

Current owners bought the team back in September 2002 for $360 Million.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/9/5/16255168/nba-teams-sold-highest-record-price-all-30

Depends how you want to look at it... they realized a gain of $2.740 Billion. 761% increase of their initial investment. Roughly 13% return per year for 17.5 years of ownership. Anyway you want to put it... the owners made a whole crap load lot of money on this investment and can easily afford to pay over the salary cap if warranted. To recap... any board discussion regarding whether or not the team can afford to keep players is a "moot" point at best. So far, the owners are in sync with winning basketball. They are willing to pay for talent. It is a virtual certainty JT will get close to max on his extension if he keeps it up.

another few more weeks of saving and I can buy the team.

[Shak_Celts]

Legalized sport gambling is a game changer. I totally expect the NBA salary cap to go up. Way up. This is going to make the recent re-signing of JB a steal.

Example of how the league could make money (this article is dated June/2018):

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/6/12/17372548/integrity-fee-legal-sports-gambling

I hear Massachusetts is pushing legislation on legal gambling. About 20 states has legalized gambling and 10 others are thinking about it. And why not? States love another income stream to tax. It is happening and professional teams are going to ring the cash register. (Daryl Morey can keep his job. Just put a kibosh on the tweets). This is going to be a GREAT time to be the owner of a sports franchise. And this is one of the many reasons why I think arguing about the limitation of team payroll is no longer significant.

To continue exploring this subject...

Celtics are currently valued at $3.1 Billion.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257192/NBA-Franchise-Valuations-Up-14-Percent-From-2019-To-$212-Billion-Average

Current owners bought the team back in September 2002 for $360 Million.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/9/5/16255168/nba-teams-sold-highest-record-price-all-30

Depends how you want to look at it... they realized a gain of $2.740 Billion. 761% increase of their initial investment. Roughly 13% return per year for 17.5 years of ownership. Anyway you want to put it... the owners made a whole crap load lot of money on this investment and can easily afford to pay over the salary cap if warranted. To recap... any board discussion regarding whether or not the team can afford to keep players is a "moot" point at best. So far, the owners are in sync with winning basketball. They are willing to pay for talent. It is a virtual certainty JT will get close to max on his extension if he keeps it up.

another few more weeks of saving and I can buy the team.

I'd bet my life they would get more than that valuation. Probably closer to 5 if they wanted to sell. I know what you're saying, "you're crazy!" Well duh! but I'm still in on that bet! Sounds like you're a month away to get there.

If I were a rich lady, yaba dibba dibba dibba...

[Parliament10]

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[Parliament10]

I think our issue next season will be roster spots. Most of our rookies are going to take a step up next year, after getting thrown into the fire this year. They wont be spending the first half of the season learning the system and where to go on a certain play or what to do on defense.

So of course we will have Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Smart, R. Williams, G. Williams, Langford, and Edwards. They are all signed for 2021 already. I fully expect Hayward back either by opting in or getting an extension. I do expect Kanter to opt out, but will probably be offered the full MLE to stay. If he is back, then that's 11 spots taken. I expect Waters to replace Wannamaker. I think Tacko and Poirier will fight it out for a spot. I expect Semi's option picked up, but his role is being threatened by G. Will, so he could be gone. If Green can start hitting the 3 ball, he will have a better chance of staying. So we will have at most (unless a trade is made around the draft or preseason) 5 roster spots (Hayward, Wannamaker, Kanter, Semi and Green) if everyone who has the option leaves and we don't pick up Semi. And we still have Waters, Tacko, and 3 first's along with the guys who do want to come back to fit in those 5 spots. 5 spots and 10 possible players going for them. And that's if we don't bring in a FA to try out. lol

I dont think the team will have the full MLE next season. And not sure what the team can do for roster spots either.

I think Kanter, Brad, Semi, Green are all gone (for nothing I might add), even though Brad and Kanter have been the bench this season in its entirety. Just salary wise and roster space wise I cannot see team being able to keep anyone not named Kanter, and Kanter would be a fool not to go for more money.

Kemba
Brown
tatum
Smart
Hayward
Theis
Grant W
Robert W
Edwards
Waters
LLE player
rookie
rookie
rookie
rookie

We likely have to make some Trades. -- Langford and Poirier are signed for next season, as well.
Semi may get picked up, and Tacko may be added.

Good News is -- That we can carry 20 players in the Offseason.
Bad News is ---- We still have to get down to 15 NBA Players, and 2 x Two-Ways, by the Start of the Regular Season.

It's still a very fluid situation. Likely, somewhat dependent on how far we go in the Playoffs this season.
I can see Ainge stashing Rookies, and/or Trading out of the 1st Round; to utilize those Two-Way spots.

[100proof]

I think our issue next season will be roster spots. Most of our rookies are going to take a step up next year, after getting thrown into the fire this year. They wont be spending the first half of the season learning the system and where to go on a certain play or what to do on defense.

So of course we will have Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Smart, R. Williams, G. Williams, Langford, and Edwards. They are all signed for 2021 already. I fully expect Hayward back either by opting in or getting an extension. I do expect Kanter to opt out, but will probably be offered the full MLE to stay. If he is back, then that's 11 spots taken. I expect Waters to replace Wannamaker. I think Tacko and Poirier will fight it out for a spot. I expect Semi's option picked up, but his role is being threatened by G. Will, so he could be gone. If Green can start hitting the 3 ball, he will have a better chance of staying. So we will have at most (unless a trade is made around the draft or preseason) 5 roster spots (Hayward, Wannamaker, Kanter, Semi and Green) if everyone who has the option leaves and we don't pick up Semi. And we still have Waters, Tacko, and 3 first's along with the guys who do want to come back to fit in those 5 spots. 5 spots and 10 possible players going for them. And that's if we don't bring in a FA to try out. lol

I dont think the team will have the full MLE next season. And not sure what the team can do for roster spots either.

I think Kanter, Brad, Semi, Green are all gone (for nothing I might add), even though Brad and Kanter have been the bench this season in its entirety. Just salary wise and roster space wise I cannot see team being able to keep anyone not named Kanter, and Kanter would be a fool not to go for more money.

Kemba
Brown
tatum
Smart
Hayward
Theis
Grant W
Robert W
Edwards
Waters
LLE player
rookie
rookie
rookie
rookie

We likely have to make some Trades. -- Langford and Poirier are signed for next season, as well.
Semi may get picked up, and Tacko may be added.

Good News is -- That we can carry 20 players in the Offseason.
Bad News is ---- We still have to get down to 15 NBA Players, and 2 x Two-Ways, by the Start of the Regular Season.

It's still a very fluid situation. Likely, somewhat dependent on how far we go in the Playoffs this season.
I can see Ainge stashing Rookies, and/or Trading out of the 1st Round; to utilize those Two-Way spots.

Right.

It is a very sloppy situation that is no doubt going to have Ainge drafting terribly just to stash people. Hopefully there is a big offseason deal that shed some players off the team.
Guys like Aaron Gordon we know are available, so picks and some contracts could potentially be alot better than just dropping players for nothing.

Kanter is likely gone by player opt out
Green in non guaranteed (likely gone)
Semi has a team option (likely gone)
Wannamaker has a QO (likely gone)

Theis non guaranteed (will be picked up, no question)

Hayward - hopefully opt and sign for 20 mill per or less

So 11 players under contract

Jayson
Jaylen
Kemba
Smart
Gordon
Theis
Edwards
Grant Williams
Timelord
Poirier
Langford

4 roster spots and 2 two way contracts out of
Waters
Tacko
pick 17
pick 27
pick 30
pick 46

Will leave having to trade away, draft and stash, or dropping a pick somehow in order to use the mle/lle whatever team has available.

In regards to the full MLE team would need to have a salary of below 143 million, if Hayward opts in and the above listed players are released, etc, team would have 134,222,667 in salary not adding any picks, waters or tacko. (losing Semi, BWanamaker, Kanter and green all for NOTHING)

It will be close.

I HATE losing players for nothing, Kanter should have been dealt for an asset of some sort, now that ship has sailed.

1 option open is that a deal gets made by draft involving green, brad and semi (5.1 million outgoing) and 2 first rounders for a player making as much as 10 million in salary (Opens up everyone who has signed an MLE or tax payer MLE deal over the last couple seasons as well as any current rookie deal). this would not allow team to have the full MLE (Unless Gordon opts out and resigns for 20-24 mill per season) but would allow them to be able to better match salaries in a future trade.