Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 2

[ConstableGeneva]

I don't share your concern with outdoor activities. From everything I'm reading, it's prolonged exposure indoors that creates the risk.

It's possible that the people below got infected elsewhere (indoors), but I still wouldn't discount the likelihood they got it from the outdoor events they attended. From my standpoint, better safe than sorry so I personally would still wear a mask and practice social distancing whenever I go outside. Oh, and you wouldn't catch me in a covid party among people who think infecting themselves would make them immune.

Protestors:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-wisconsin-protests-test-positive-department-of-health-services-a9509486.html

Spring Breakers:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/least-28-texas-spring-breakers-test-positive-covid-19-after-n1173231

The college students chartered a plane together...and I'm guessing they didn't distance themselves from each other when they got to Mexico. It's surprising more of them weren't infected.

Protestors must have a higher percentage of cases among them having nothing to do with attending a rally...this is how they are living. It is highly unlikely that an outdoor protest rally is most risky activity they engaged in that day, much less the last 3 months.

Neither of these examples come close to addressing the excellent blog entry Floyd posted in this thread which explained the various threat levels for indoor and outdoor activities.

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

That's my bad that I got drawn into the outdoor-vs.-indoor argument. My main point was these people seem to share that "cavalier attitude" and lack of common sense with their way of dealing with this disease. (You even made the similar point that they don't seem to care about engaging in activities that pose significant risk.) Half-jokingly, if they're going to catch the disease somehow, why not volunteer their bodies to scientific research in service of progress towards finding a cure/vaccine for this thing.

And yes, I agree with you (and the blog -- read it the other day) about which settings pose higher risk of catching the disease.

[Green89]

Show this to protestors, never-maskers, covid-party peeps, and beach-goers who are exposing themselves (and others) to the virus. Maybe they want to volunteer. Don't let their cavalier attitude go to waste.

I don't share your concern with outdoor activities. From everything I'm reading, it's prolonged exposure indoors that creates the risk.

Prolonged exposure has nothing to do with it, although supposedly the more virus you come in contact with, the worse your sickness can be. One cough from an infected person and you're exposed. Even loud talking is reportedly a means of spread now. People still cough, talk, and sneeze outdoors. Others also touch their face while outdoors. Less of a chance, sure, but going outside in no way eliminates your risk.

[SuperDeluxe]

Show this to protestors, never-maskers, covid-party peeps, and beach-goers who are exposing themselves (and others) to the virus. Maybe they want to volunteer. Don't let their cavalier attitude go to waste.

I don't share your concern with outdoor activities. From everything I'm reading, it's prolonged exposure indoors that creates the risk.

Prolonged exposure has nothing to do with it, although supposedly the more virus you come in contact with, the worse your sickness can be. One cough from an infected person and you're exposed. Even loud talking is reportedly a means of spread now. People still cough, talk, and sneeze outdoors. Others also touch their face while outdoors. Less of a chance, sure, but going outside in no way eliminates your risk.

Prolonged exposure does make a difference, indoors and outdoors. It all depends on the viral load you are exposed to. If you have time, read this article that floyd shared a couple days ago, it's fantastic: https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

[Parliament10]

So by some miracle my mom is coming home on Saturday. I asked my wife last night, who is a nurse that works in the ER and deals with Corona, did you think she was going to survive this. She flat out said no I cannot believe she did.

I know that may sound morbid but my mother has so many health issues and has dodged so many bullets with her health quite frankly I cannot believe she's coming home.

Thanks to everybody on here for the support well-wishes and prayers! I appreciate each and everyone of you on here and I really mean that!

Well, Yahoo!!!
Cherish these moments. Amen.

[claycarver]

I don't share your concern with outdoor activities. From everything I'm reading, it's prolonged exposure indoors that creates the risk.

Prolonged exposure has nothing to do with it, although supposedly the more virus you come in contact with, the worse your sickness can be. One cough from an infected person and you're exposed. Even loud talking is reportedly a means of spread now. People still cough, talk, and sneeze outdoors. Others also touch their face while outdoors. Less of a chance, sure, but going outside in no way eliminates your risk.

Prolonged exposure does make a difference, indoors and outdoors. It all depends on the viral load you are exposed to. If you have tome, read this article that floyd shared a couple days ago, it's fantastic: https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

The paragraph is a little confusing but I think article is not saying that prolonged exposure makes a difference outdoor. Indoor, time is the factor. Outdoor, infinite space and wind is the factor. Here's the quote:

Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. In these situations there is not enough time to achieve the infectious viral load when you are standing 6 feet apart or where wind and the infinite outdoor space for viral dilution reduces viral load. The effects of sunlight, heat, and humidity on viral survival, all serve to minimize the risk to everyone when outside.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

So by some miracle my mom is coming home on Saturday. I asked my wife last night, who is a nurse that works in the ER and deals with Corona, did you think she was going to survive this. She flat out said no I cannot believe she did.

I know that may sound morbid but my mother has so many health issues and has dodged so many bullets with her health quite frankly I cannot believe she's coming home.

Thanks to everybody on here for the support well-wishes and prayers! I appreciate each and everyone of you on here and I really mean that!

This is fantastic news!!! Makes me happy to hear that everything is gonna be ok!!

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

My son has ASD and is non-verbal. Today, he brought me a book and pointed at pictures of a school bus and a classroom. He misses school and it is breaking my heart. This pandemic **** sucks.

[threrf23]

The paragraph is a little confusing but I think article is not saying that prolonged exposure makes a difference outdoor. Indoor, time is the factor. Outdoor, infinite space and wind is the factor. Here's the quote:

Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. In these situations there is not enough time to achieve the infectious viral load when you are standing 6 feet apart or where wind and the infinite outdoor space for viral dilution reduces viral load. The effects of sunlight, heat, and humidity on viral survival, all serve to minimize the risk to everyone when outside.

My impression is that outdoors, the main difference is that staying 6 feet apart will, save for a freak occurence (or being surrounded by several infected people at the same time), will be sufficient to avoid catching Corona. To a lesser extent, three feet may suffice. Conversating at close range, transmission likely still happens relatively easily.

Whereas in a small enclosed space, given enough time, a single cough can maybe infect all or most even if people are six feet apart and not talking to each other.

Also, my impression is that humidity and temperature affect how long the virus lasts on a surface or in the air; don't have the link, but I think I recall seeing a study that showed that the virus lived on a very cold service for several days, but only survived for one day on a hot surface. In the air, perhaps the difference might be one hour versus several hours. But that doesn't make a difference where you have prolonged exposure to a specific person, where surfaces are sanitized once a day, etc.

I find it curious that there is so much talk about a second wave in the fall, without similar talk regarding the potential for a second wave in the summer. It's as if those in the know have suddenly started to believe that the virus is seasonal.

[Slax]

Prolonged exposure has nothing to do with it, although supposedly the more virus you come in contact with, the worse your sickness can be. One cough from an infected person and you're exposed. Even loud talking is reportedly a means of spread now. People still cough, talk, and sneeze outdoors. Others also touch their face while outdoors. Less of a chance, sure, but going outside in no way eliminates your risk.

Prolonged exposure does make a difference, indoors and outdoors. It all depends on the viral load you are exposed to. If you have tome, read this article that floyd shared a couple days ago, it's fantastic: https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

The paragraph is a little confusing but I think article is not saying that prolonged exposure makes a difference outdoor. Indoor, time is the factor. Outdoor, infinite space and wind is the factor. Here's the quote:

Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. In these situations there is not enough time to achieve the infectious viral load when you are standing 6 feet apart or where wind and the infinite outdoor space for viral dilution reduces viral load. The effects of sunlight, heat, and humidity on viral survival, all serve to minimize the risk to everyone when outside.

Looks to me like what that's saying is that it's probably safe to be around other people outdoors for a long period of time or indoors for a short period of time if you keep six feet apart, wear masks, etc. But if you don't social distance outdoors, or if you are indoors for a long period of time even while maintaining distance, that is not an effective way to inhibit spread of the virus. The very important point is that keeping your distance from other people outdoors results in enough time and space for a significant portion of the virus to dissipate or get destroyed before reaching you.

I think this is probably right. I see no reason not to open parks and beaches if most people are actually going to keep away from each other, which probably actually puts me at the more pro-opening side of things on this forum. (What I'm seeing in practice on the street is that lots of people aren't practicing good social distancing, but I don't see why you couldn't do something like limit the number of people allowed on beaches at a time to make it safer without going full closure.) A blanket advice of "all outdoor activity is ok" would be pretty dangerous. I think we need to come up with policies to balance the recreational and health values of different activities with the potential for seeding new outbreaks, and I think that's possible to do, but it's really hard in an environment where you have the two extremes of anti-maskers who are going around touching each other's faces as an act of protest on the one side and some people reacting to that by demanding indefinite closure of even low density outdoor public spaces on the other. I'll throw in with the latter over the former, but I think both are wrong.

[canman1971]

So by some miracle my mom is coming home on Saturday. I asked my wife last night, who is a nurse that works in the ER and deals with Corona, did you think she was going to survive this. She flat out said no I cannot believe she did.

I know that may sound morbid but my mother has so many health issues and has dodged so many bullets with her health quite frankly I cannot believe she's coming home.

Thanks to everybody on here for the support well-wishes and prayers! I appreciate each and everyone of you on here and I really mean that!

So awesome. Great to hear.

[Slax]

My son has ASD and is non-verbal. Today, he brought me a book and pointed at pictures of a school bus and a classroom. He misses school and it is breaking my heart. This pandemic **** sucks.

That sucks man, this is a huge strain even on neurotypical adults so I can't even imagine how upsetting this must be for your kid to have his whole routine ripped away from him like that all of a sudden and for such a long time. But just imagine how big a smile is going to be on his face once vaccines become widespread and he gets to go back to school for the first time in forever! Little dude is going to be so excited. Just have to muddle through this ugly in between.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

My son has ASD and is non-verbal. Today, he brought me a book and pointed at pictures of a school bus and a classroom. He misses school and it is breaking my heart. This pandemic **** sucks.

That sucks man, this is a huge strain even on neurotypical adults so I can't even imagine how upsetting this must be for your kid to have his whole routine ripped away from him like that all of a sudden and for such a long time. But just imagine how big a smile is going to be on his face once vaccines become widespread and he gets to go back to school for the first time in forever! Little dude is going to be so excited. Just have to muddle through this ugly in between.

Yeah, for the most part, he's been ok. This is the first time he's asked to get on a school bus during this pandemic. Before it all started, there were some mornings where I had to beg and plead with him to get ready for school. I had no idea he missed school until today. Zoom meetings with the gang are cool, but it still isn't the same.

[claycarver]

Looks to me like what that's saying is that it's probably safe to be around other people outdoors for a long period of time or indoors for a short period of time if you keep six feet apart, wear masks, etc.

Yes, this, except the author seems focused on the 6 ft distance rather than masks. And honestly, I think this makes sense. What we're calling masks aren't much more than binkys to make other people feel safer. I wear them as I should, but I have low confidence in their efficacy.

There's a reasonable amount of risk we need to lean in to. Similar to driving a car on the interstate or whatever. Wear seat belts, don't swerve around, but don't be afraid of getting in your car. Some people will drive recklessly and I am alert to it, but I still drive.

[theman]

Once again it appears the free market has the answer. The NBA just needs to give one of these to every player.



And yes this is a joke people. Well, the product is real, the NBA playing in them is a joke. But it would be fun to watch. For about five minutes.

[djFan71]

So by some miracle my mom is coming home on Saturday. I asked my wife last night, who is a nurse that works in the ER and deals with Corona, did you think she was going to survive this. She flat out said no I cannot believe she did.

I know that may sound morbid but my mother has so many health issues and has dodged so many bullets with her health quite frankly I cannot believe she's coming home.

Thanks to everybody on here for the support well-wishes and prayers! I appreciate each and everyone of you on here and I really mean that!

Great to hear. I read the first and was so glad when I got to this one right after it!

[djFan71]

Slightly OT, but could be a fun distraction. (Other?) mods delete if need be.

Spoiler:

I didn't really mean to, but I wrote a quarantine song called Non-Essential. It's supposed to be fun, not a protest or anything. You can stream it here if you're interested:
https://thecircleofwillis.bandcamp.com/releases

It was done in the past couple weeks in home studios in isolation for the most part. Socially distanced in our large, rural rehearsal space for a few pieces. Should be safe to listen to.

"Feeling non-essential. My life is just a rental.
My job's not fundamental, but at least I got one.
Not a health care worker. I'm feeling like a jerk here.
Another Facebook lurker. I got to stay home.

Useless to society. No ventilators up my sleeve.
Maybe I’ll just try and see if I can win the lottery.
Then I’d fund a vaccine and wipe away my guilt clean.
And everyone’d be happy, but it’s not about me.

We appreciate the sacrifice you make, but we can't escape feeling this way. We’re non-essential.

All I do is walk now, dodging old folks somehow.
I think I blew my sock out. 6 feet. Stay back.
I forgot to stock up just before the lock up.
I had to cut my frock up to make my face mask.

Now I’m buying groceries, no flour or organic tea,
No sanitizer and no meat, nowhere to be seen.
Who’d have thought my life would be failing in obscurity?
You ain’t got no use for me. You just need TP."

[K For Three]

Be more like cats and save lives.

Read on Twitter

^^^
I approve this post.

[ConstableGeneva]

Be more like cats and save lives.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

^^^
I approve this post.

If cats who have nine lives are careful about preserving their life and others', how could we not?!

[claycarver]

What's going on with Georgia? They started reopening 3 weeks ago and they haven't seen a spike despite dire predictions. We would have seen the results by now.

[threrf23]

What's going on with Georgia? They started reopening 3 weeks ago and they haven't seen a spike despite dire predictions. We would have seen the results by now.

First of all, Georgia bars and nightclubs are still closed, and it isn't business as usual at many businesses that have reopened, so it's worth noting that Georgia isn't necessarily as open as it has been given credit for by some.

Second, I'm not sure of current trends in Georgia, and I'm not sure how they are doing with testing, tracking, etc. But once changes are put in place, it probably takes a week or two for more people to start becoming infected, another week on average for symptoms to pop up and become obvious, and deaths maybe come 2-4 weeks after that. So it's too early to tell.

Third, in terms of deaths per capita, some of the smaller counties in Georgia have been getting hit as hard as anywhere outside of NYC. The Atlanta metro hasn't gone so bad in terms of deaths per capita, but has shown maybe twice as many deaths per capita compared to the Phoenix metro area (similar population density).

We'll see.