Marcus Smart is nothing special...why are yall so delusional?

[AgentGreen]

Smart already has a better season than Gary Payton had in his rookie year. I hope he can be a player like Gary was for the Sonics.

[Datruth345]

wow, big time troll thread here, OP is a coward

I'm proudly on the Marcus Smart bandwagon thank you very much

[Banks2Pierce]

I think we're looking at a bigger, stronger Derek Fisher.

I mean, you seem to be extrapolating his rookie season driving confidence out through his entire future. The results of the drive have been poor, but at least now he is trying it. Where he had not been even attempting it once per game up until about 50 days ago, including SL against all younger or fringey players. We are seeing more variance on what he does at or before the rim. I understand being frustrated about how it's looked, but I think strength and savvy can make up for explosion. I've said it before in this thread, but I don't think he's got a ton else to work on and can see a basis for optimism. There aren't many guards with his frame and strength.

As for Fisher, I don't think he's ever really been a staple of All-Defense teams and Smart's a significantly better rebounder. I know what you mean as far as his projecting his place historically, but I think it's on the lower end of the projection side for Marcus.

[whygee]

It's Dennis Johnson, Hall of Famer. It's staring you right smack in the face.

[Valid]

wow, big time troll thread here, OP is a coward

I'm proudly on the Marcus Smart bandwagon thank you very much

The best part is the two sheep who liked his post, including a 76ers fan. Not surprising, though, considering Philly fans don't know jack **** about winning.

[whygee]

Smart already has a better season than Gary Payton had in his rookie year. I hope he can be a player like Gary was for the Sonics.

Smart's impact is already on par with Damian Lillard's rookie year impact. Just like I called it in June. The biggest difference is that Smart's impact is harder to qualify with stats, except wins. He's just as clutch or even more clutch in the 4th quarter, his defense is Waaaay better, and Smart is the leader we've all been waiting for, while pretending Rondo was even capable of being that leader.

[humblebum]

Yeah, I'm with arambone... Smart is just vastly underrated. I don't think the "Fisher" type tag much of a knock as I really respect what Fish was as a player in this league, someone who Shaq referred to as the "anchor" of the defense on those Laker championship teams. So in that sense, yeah... I think Smart has a similar level of intangibles and natural leadership.

But Fish is a knockdown shooter and I think Smart doesn't have as much natural shooting touch. But I also think that Smart just has so much more potential offensively in terms of getting to the basket and passing the ball. It's just that he does it in such a different fashion than Rondo that I think people have a tough time understanding the value of "moving the ball" rather than being this ultra "playmaker". When you play a 5 man game offensively it's much more important to keep the rock moving and letting everyone get a touch than it is to be THE guy to break down the defense consistently and create easy looks for teammates.

Over time I believe Smart will prove a lot of people wrong about his dribble drive/kick/playmaking abilities in much the same way that Bradley has made a ton of people look like complete idiots. Is anyone still saying that Bradley isn't improving as a ball handler, shot creator, passer?

In a season or two I think people will be eating a lot of words about Smart.

[Slartibartfast]

I think we're looking at a bigger, stronger Derek Fisher.

I mean, you seem to be extrapolating his rookie season driving confidence out through his entire future. The results of the drive have been poor, but at least now he is trying it. Where he had not been even attempting it once per game up until about 50 days ago, including SL against all younger or fringey players. We are seeing more variance on what he does at or before the rim. I understand being frustrated about how it's looked, but I think strength and savvy can make up for explosion. I've said it before in this thread, but I don't think he's got a ton else to work on and can see a basis for optimism. There aren't many guards with his frame and strength.

As for Fisher, I don't think he's ever really been a staple of All-Defense teams and Smart's a significantly better rebounder. I know what you mean as far as his projecting his place historically, but I think it's on the lower end of the projection side for Marcus.

I think mentality is enormously important for developing areas of offensive weakness. Russell Westbrook was underskilled when he came into the league, but was so aggressive in his trial-and-lots-of-error approach that he rocketed up the steep learning curve.

Ron Artest is probably a better comparison physically, and he too was more aggressive and self-confident - he really liked to punish people with his strength.

Re: Fisher, he would have been a lock for All-D teams (and a better rebounder) if he had Smart's excellent size, strength and length. He had tremendous defensive footwork at the point of attack, and was one of the best and most willing charge takers ever. He played way too long after his defensive quickness left him, but in his prime he was quite the defender.

Offensively, he was meh, but we have to look at Smart's offensive numbers soberly here before dismissing the comparison. 35/32/65 is not star stuff for a prospect of limited athleticism. He doesn't draw many fouls, he doesn't have any sweet spots or go to moves. His 4.6 assists per 36 is very nice for a combo guard, but middling for a PG prospect, especially when you consider how little he's breaking down the defense.

[humblebum]

I think we're looking at a bigger, stronger Derek Fisher.

I mean, you seem to be extrapolating his rookie season driving confidence out through his entire future. The results of the drive have been poor, but at least now he is trying it. Where he had not been even attempting it once per game up until about 50 days ago, including SL against all younger or fringey players. We are seeing more variance on what he does at or before the rim. I understand being frustrated about how it's looked, but I think strength and savvy can make up for explosion. I've said it before in this thread, but I don't think he's got a ton else to work on and can see a basis for optimism. There aren't many guards with his frame and strength.

As for Fisher, I don't think he's ever really been a staple of All-Defense teams and Smart's a significantly better rebounder. I know what you mean as far as his projecting his place historically, but I think it's on the lower end of the projection side for Marcus.

I think mentality is enormously important for developing areas of offensive weakness. Russell Westbrook was underskilled when he came into the league, but was so aggressive in his trial-and-lots-of-error approach that he rocketed up the steep learning curve.

Ron Artest is probably a better comparison physically, and he too was more aggressive and self-confident - he really liked to punish people with his strength.

Re: Fisher, he would have been a lock for All-D teams (and a better rebounder) if he had Smart's excellent size, strength and length. He had tremendous defensive footwork at the point of attack, and was one of the best and most willing charge takers ever. He played way too long after his defensive quickness left him, but in his prime he was quite the defender.

Offensively, he was meh, but we have to look at Smart's offensive numbers soberly here before dismissing the comparison. 35/32/65 is not star stuff for a prospect of limited athleticism. He doesn't draw many fouls, he doesn't have any sweet spots or go to moves. His 4.6 assists per 36 is very nice for a combo guard, but middling for a PG prospect, especially when you consider how little he's breaking down the defense.

How many minutes has Smart even played? What is his actual role on the team?

I think more context needs to be layered into the discussion before we get to the point of taking statistics and making comparisons/projections.

Not enough information, visual or otherwise, to make anything close to accurate projections. I mean, we don't even know how much the ankle/achilles injury has hampered his aggressiveness this season.

And of late he's been much more aggressive as banks2pierce is pointing to. People just need to step back and watch a bit more before they rush to judgment.

[Slartibartfast]

I mean, you seem to be extrapolating his rookie season driving confidence out through his entire future. The results of the drive have been poor, but at least now he is trying it. Where he had not been even attempting it once per game up until about 50 days ago, including SL against all younger or fringey players. We are seeing more variance on what he does at or before the rim. I understand being frustrated about how it's looked, but I think strength and savvy can make up for explosion. I've said it before in this thread, but I don't think he's got a ton else to work on and can see a basis for optimism. There aren't many guards with his frame and strength.

As for Fisher, I don't think he's ever really been a staple of All-Defense teams and Smart's a significantly better rebounder. I know what you mean as far as his projecting his place historically, but I think it's on the lower end of the projection side for Marcus.

I think mentality is enormously important for developing areas of offensive weakness. Russell Westbrook was underskilled when he came into the league, but was so aggressive in his trial-and-lots-of-error approach that he rocketed up the steep learning curve.

Ron Artest is probably a better comparison physically, and he too was more aggressive and self-confident - he really liked to punish people with his strength.

Re: Fisher, he would have been a lock for All-D teams (and a better rebounder) if he had Smart's excellent size, strength and length. He had tremendous defensive footwork at the point of attack, and was one of the best and most willing charge takers ever. He played way too long after his defensive quickness left him, but in his prime he was quite the defender.

Offensively, he was meh, but we have to look at Smart's offensive numbers soberly here before dismissing the comparison. 35/32/65 is not star stuff for a prospect of limited athleticism. He doesn't draw many fouls, he doesn't have any sweet spots or go to moves. His 4.6 assists per 36 is very nice for a combo guard, but middling for a PG prospect, especially when you consider how little he's breaking down the defense.

How many minutes has Smart even played? What is his actual role on the team?

I think more context needs to be layered into the discussion before we get to the point of taking statistics and making comparisons/projections.

Not enough information, visual or otherwise, to make anything close to accurate projections. I mean, we don't even know how much the ankle/achilles injury has hampered his aggressiveness this season.

And of late he's been much more aggressive as banks2pierce is pointing to. People just need to step back and watch a bit more before they rush to judgment.

Many are calling him the next Chauncey Billups or Gary Payton - I'm just offering another perspective.

And 1300+ minutes isn't a ton, but we're closing in on a full season of data. Nor is he on an upward trajectory. He's been Phil Pressey awful offensively for almost two months now after losing his 3-point touch. In 22 games as a starter (31mpg), he's putting up 9/5/3 on 33/27/62 shooting.

[DarkAzcura]

I think mentality is enormously important for developing areas of offensive weakness. Russell Westbrook was underskilled when he came into the league, but was so aggressive in his trial-and-lots-of-error approach that he rocketed up the steep learning curve.

Ron Artest is probably a better comparison physically, and he too was more aggressive and self-confident - he really liked to punish people with his strength.

Re: Fisher, he would have been a lock for All-D teams (and a better rebounder) if he had Smart's excellent size, strength and length. He had tremendous defensive footwork at the point of attack, and was one of the best and most willing charge takers ever. He played way too long after his defensive quickness left him, but in his prime he was quite the defender.

Offensively, he was meh, but we have to look at Smart's offensive numbers soberly here before dismissing the comparison. 35/32/65 is not star stuff for a prospect of limited athleticism. He doesn't draw many fouls, he doesn't have any sweet spots or go to moves. His 4.6 assists per 36 is very nice for a combo guard, but middling for a PG prospect, especially when you consider how little he's breaking down the defense.

How many minutes has Smart even played? What is his actual role on the team?

I think more context needs to be layered into the discussion before we get to the point of taking statistics and making comparisons/projections.

Not enough information, visual or otherwise, to make anything close to accurate projections. I mean, we don't even know how much the ankle/achilles injury has hampered his aggressiveness this season.

And of late he's been much more aggressive as banks2pierce is pointing to. People just need to step back and watch a bit more before they rush to judgment.

Many are calling him the next Chauncey Billups or Gary Payton - I'm just offering another perspective.

And 1300+ minutes isn't a ton, but we're closing in on a full season of data. Nor is he on an upward trajectory. He's been Phil Pressey awful offensively for almost two months now after losing his 3-point touch. In 22 games as a starter (31mpg), he's putting up 9/5/3 on 33/27/62 shooting.

Honestly all good points. His shooting has been pretty bad overall inside the arc. I actually find his overall 3PT percentage to be pretty respectable for a guard who wasn't supposed to be able to shoot. I think that's a nice takeaway for his offensive game. As for the other parts of his offensive game, I am a bit disappointed, BUT from the eye test he has been taking it into the lane a lot more the last couple months. I see some potential there only because it's a big difference from even summer league. He has the will to improve so I like that. I thought he may struggle to finish at the rim in his rookie year while he was still figuring it out, but I had hoped he would have had more reps there by now.

Anyway, only thing I want to really disagree with you on is that he hasn't been drawing fouls. He actually has been doing that pretty well considering his shooting spread. 40% of his shots are inside the arc, yet he still has a 27% FTr overall, which is actually really impressive considering the limited amount of shots he takes inside the arc.

[Edug27]

I love player comparisons .. and a 'bigger Derek Fisher' is an interesting one. I could see that as worst case scenario. With Billups being best case scenario ... and 'smaller Artest' being somewhere in between .. haha

[Slartibartfast]

How many minutes has Smart even played? What is his actual role on the team?

I think more context needs to be layered into the discussion before we get to the point of taking statistics and making comparisons/projections.

Not enough information, visual or otherwise, to make anything close to accurate projections. I mean, we don't even know how much the ankle/achilles injury has hampered his aggressiveness this season.

And of late he's been much more aggressive as banks2pierce is pointing to. People just need to step back and watch a bit more before they rush to judgment.

Many are calling him the next Chauncey Billups or Gary Payton - I'm just offering another perspective.

And 1300+ minutes isn't a ton, but we're closing in on a full season of data. Nor is he on an upward trajectory. He's been Phil Pressey awful offensively for almost two months now after losing his 3-point touch. In 22 games as a starter (31mpg), he's putting up 9/5/3 on 33/27/62 shooting.

Honestly all good points. His shooting has been pretty bad overall inside the arc. I actually find his overall 3PT percentage to be pretty respectable for a guard who wasn't supposed to be able to shoot. I think that's a nice takeaway for his offensive game. As for the other parts of his offensive game, I am a bit disappointed, BUT from the eye test he has been taking it into the lane a lot more the last couple months. I see some potential there only because it's a big difference from even summer league. He has the will to improve so I like that. I thought he may struggle to finish at the rim in his rookie year while he was still figuring it out, but I had hoped he would have had more reps there by now.

Anyway, only thing I want to really disagree with you on is that he hasn't been drawing fouls. He actually has been doing that pretty well considering his shooting spread. 40% of his shots are inside the arc, yet he still has a 27% FTr overall, which is actually really impressive considering the limited amount of shots he takes inside the arc.

I don't think FTr is much too get excited about in Smart's case. Phil Pressey has a 27% FTr too. They are both physical guards who are not afraid of hitting the floor to get some free throws on the rare occasions they are enough of a threat to force the foul.

The excitement with Smart is all about the W-L column, his youth and his college track record. And I guess his A:TO ratio. Everything else at this point screams weak offensive player.

[Bill Lumbergh]

...True PGs as are rare as true centers and building a team around that is fraught with lots of dangers these days, namely that making 14 guys dependent on 1 guy's brilliance is a slim margin of error. Personally, speaking as a guy who still plays, there's nothing sweeter than playing with a true point, but as a guy tasked with building a team, you gotta understand that nowadays there are simply more opportunities to build good teams around ball and player movement (like we're doing) than around one great PG because there are many more players available who can play in the latter situation but not the former. Which is why Danny moved on from Rondo and passed on Payton (even though Payton is a "better" player than Smart, it's easier to construct a winner with Smart's skillset than it is with Payton's).

You're presenting it as an either-or proposition. You can be a true PG and *still* have the team predicated on ball/player movement, ala the Spurs and Tony Parker. The main difference comes down to being able to penetrate and put pressure on the interior of a defense, and cause switching to then be able to kick out to open shooters. Being able to beat your guy off the bounce creates opportunities for others. If you can't do that, you're limited to swinging the ball around the perimiter, and the offense looks constantly constipated. Having a penetrating PG in no way precludes you from running a team oriented, ball and player movement offense. It just makes it way more effective to have a PG who can also consistently get into the paint and create for others. It's not an either/or proposition.

[bigdavid]

Many fewer 3's ad more drives to the hole.

[KJandHondo35]

I really hate validating the ridiculousness of the initial post but I also do enjoy player comparisons so....

He's very George Hill-like but is trending to be a better passer/vision.

[Edit] this is by no means a knock, SMART is a baller.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Marcus Smart hasn't looked that impressive to me either, at least on the offensive side of the ball. I'm not too worried, because Exum and Payton have also looked like garbage, so I guess that's par for the course in terms of rookie PGs. On defense - he's already shown he's elite. Let's give him some more time.

[Ben-N1ce]

Right now this is his value. Hopefully the rest will come in due time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxmkDHk-LZg

[ddb]

Marcus just turned 21 years old. He is already an elite defense player. That's 50% of the game. And he has shown flashes on O. He has a long way to go, but people need to relax. If in year 3 he is the same offensive player, then report back to me with your concerns

[DarkAzcura]

Right now this is his value. Hopefully the rest will come in due time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxmkDHk-LZg

This is awesome. I wish it had the Memphis play where Smart scared Randolph off the block on a double team, lol. That was great.