IT: Dead Last in DRPM

[Big Baby]

Other players on that page - DeMarr DeRozen and Andrew Wiggins....
Player not on that page who is horrible at defense - The Matador, James Harden

And despite him playing at an MVP level, the Rockets will also never win a title with Harden leading the charge.

Harden is a different case tho. Yeah he plays comical D at times but when it comes down to it, teams can't just push him around the block or just shoot over him and get automatic 2.

IT for Jabari.

[jfs1000d]

Dude, worst thread ever. Yes, u can post him up. Yes, he is small. Still a stud.


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[AgentGreen]

Other players on that page - DeMarr DeRozen and Andrew Wiggins....
Player not on that page who is horrible at defense - The Matador, James Harden

And despite him playing at an MVP level, the Rockets will also never win a title with Harden leading the charge.

Harden is a different case tho. Yeah he plays comical D at times but when it comes down to it, teams can't just push him around the block or just shoot over him and get automatic 2.

IT for Jabari.

Harden is a 15-20 ppg player without the reffs.

[CelticsLV]

PG defense is overrated period! Elite guards cook us most of the time with or without Smart&Bradley. Just like this game Thomas made Beverly look like non-entity on defensive end. Beverly is considered one of the better PG defenders in the league. It is nice to have a 6'7 or taller 3&D SG and mobile rim protector though.

[return2glory]

Without Thomas, the Celtics would struggle to score 85 points a game. The would be a lottery team and would have a hard time winning 25-30 games a year.

People need to stop looking at worthless stats and start watching games to understand how important Thomas is to this team.

[DijonRondo]

IT hurts the team on defense, that's a given and undeniable. But Celtics defensive woes this season go beyond him. Team had a top 4 defense all of last season with him starting and playing the most total minutes and carried that over into the postseason with a barely playable Sully and depleted roster. The blame will be put on IT first though 'cos it's the easiest and laziest narrative.

Having said that, he's not worth the max imo. The market should dictate that.

No Bradley, Crowder not playing defense well enough, Horford not rebounding the ball well enough and Amir falling off a cliff.

[jrob23]

Without Thomas, the Celtics would struggle to score 85 points a game. The would be a lottery team and would have a hard time winning 25-30 games a year.

People need to stop looking at worthless stats and start watching games to understand how important Thomas is to this team.

averaged 102 ppg in IT's absence so....with great ball movement and energy. What offense we lose out we gain in defense. I wish there was proof of this somewhere...oh wait!! Luckily in 3 of his 4 missed games we played those opponents with IT so we have a decent comparison. Three very good teams. Three losses both ways. We scored less but so did they. We lost by less w/out IT than with him.

vs OKC w/out IT we lost 99-96.....w/IT vs OKC we lost 117-112
vs TOR w/out IT we lost 101-94....w/IT vs TOR we lost 114-106
vs SAS w/out IT we lost 101-96....w/IT vs SAS we lost 109-103

in the other game we beat ORL 117-87

[SMTBSI]

vs OKC w/out IT we lost 99-96.....w/IT vs OKC we lost 117-112
vs TOR w/out IT we lost 101-94....w/IT vs TOR we lost 114-106
vs SAS w/out IT we lost 101-96....w/IT vs SAS we lost 109-103

in the other game we beat ORL 117-87

I'm hardly the most devoted IT fanboy, but these numbers are not different enough to show anything.

3 vs 5
7 vs 8
5 vs 6

You can't draw conclusions from that kind of data set.

[cellar-door]

vs OKC w/out IT we lost 99-96.....w/IT vs OKC we lost 117-112
vs TOR w/out IT we lost 101-94....w/IT vs TOR we lost 114-106
vs SAS w/out IT we lost 101-96....w/IT vs SAS we lost 109-103

in the other game we beat ORL 117-87

I'm hardly the most devoted IT fanboy, but these numbers are not different enough to show anything.

3 vs 5
7 vs 8
5 vs 6

You can't draw conclusions from that kind of data set.

The only real conclusion I would draw from that is that it confirms what the on/off stats already tell us. With IT we have a very good offense and a bad defense. Without him we have a very good defense and a pretty bad offense.

It really is amazing, he's great for our offense and terrible for our defense. Right now.... probably worth it because there is reason to think that with some scheme changes (and to be honest a bit more consistent effort from IT) the D will improve some. I don't really think we can expect a go-to scorer to emerge. In the offseason...... well it will likely depend what's available.

[Captain_Caveman]

Without Thomas, the Celtics would struggle to score 85 points a game. The would be a lottery team and would have a hard time winning 25-30 games a year.

People need to stop looking at worthless stats and start watching games to understand how important Thomas is to this team.

So get better players.

Thomas is essential to a team that can never contend. Watch some Warriors games to understand that.

[andyhop]

Did you read my post about AB being ranked 319th in the league in DRPM last season but still making All Defensive First Team? That tells you all you need to know about how this stat is not accurate.

Given that DRPM agreed with every other defensive stat last year about Bradley what it actually tells you is that his selection was a joke.

[andyhop]

- only 18 / 86 point guards are listed with a positive DRPM, while 68/86 are listed as negative. It should be much closer to a 43/43 split if 0 is league average. 79% of point guards can't be below average defenders cus logic

RPM doesn't average by position ,so given that height has a statistical relevance to defense it gives the result you would expect. Very few small good defensive players and lots more good tall defensive players.

[pac213up]

It is never a good thing to have your best player struggle as much as IT does defensively. Very tough to win when it matters.

[robbie84]

I think the best scenario for us is moving Horford to the 5 and finding a solid defender/rebounder that can shoot threes. Olynyk is potentially there one day, but his rebounding is still desperately needing work.

Horford basically cannot guard modern NBA 4's. He's way too slow to get out and challenge, too slow to stay in front of his man and awful vs the ball handler in pick and rolls especially when the guard stays perimeter and shot fakes him.
Amir is great but he's a role player and probably shouldn't be starting in the NBA.


Would love to see how badly the combo of IT and Horford is vs PnR. Would be one of the worst in the league.

[AgentGreen]

If we are talking about stats. Last night against the Rockets IT was +18 in the +/- category. Some food for thought, for some of you over here.

[ballup]

Did you read my post about AB being ranked 319th in the league in DRPM last season but still making All Defensive First Team? That tells you all you need to know about how this stat is not accurate.

Given that DRPM agreed with every other defensive stat last year about Bradley what it actually tells you is that his selection was a joke.

This better be in some kind of invisible green font that my phone can't detect

Sent from my

[return2glory]

Without Thomas, the Celtics would struggle to score 85 points a game. The would be a lottery team and would have a hard time winning 25-30 games a year.

People need to stop looking at worthless stats and start watching games to understand how important Thomas is to this team.

So get better players.

Thomas is essential to a team that can never contend. Watch some Warriors games to understand that.

You don't think I understand it takes a lot of talent to win a title in this league? That's 2nd grade stuff.

Rarely any team can contend with just one star.

I've been saying all along Ainge needs to add talent. Jordan alone couldn't win a title without Pippen and Grant/Rodman. Magic couldn't win without Kareem and Worthy. Same goes with Bird. He needed Parish and McHale/Cornbread.

Thomas is a huge piece to getting a title.

Then you have Horford who is a good player. He is a 6'10 Center that has average 2.5 rebounds in the last 2 games while averaging over 30 minutes a game.

Then we have Bradley. Another good player like Horford who is hurt every year.

Other than that you have Crowder and Smart that are decent. Everyone else on the team is average and inconsistent.

Warriors have 4 of the top 20 players in the league. We have only one. It's no contest.

[jmr07019]

- only 18 / 86 point guards are listed with a positive DRPM, while 68/86 are listed as negative. It should be much closer to a 43/43 split if 0 is league average. 79% of point guards can't be below average defenders cus logic

RPM doesn't average by position ,so given that height has a statistical relevance to defense it gives the result you would expect. Very few small good defensive players and lots more good tall defensive players.

that shows the flaw in the stat. why judge a pg's D and a center's D by the same set of standards? their responsibilities are completely different.

[peachbucket]

Having a player who you can get clutch/late game buckets by himself at an efficient rate is the most valuable commodity any team can have....and IT, against all odds, has become the best in the league. Despite his defensive shortcomings, and I believe they are greatly exaggerated by DRPM, he is easily a top 10 player this year.

[Big Baby]

Without Thomas, the Celtics would struggle to score 85 points a game. The would be a lottery team and would have a hard time winning 25-30 games a year.

People need to stop looking at worthless stats and start watching games to understand how important Thomas is to this team.

So get better players.

Thomas is essential to a team that can never contend. Watch some Warriors games to understand that.

You don't think I understand it takes a lot of talent to win a title in this league? That's 2nd grade stuff.

Rarely any team can contend with just one star.

I've been saying all along Ainge needs to add talent. Jordan alone couldn't win a title without Pippen and Grant/Rodman. Magic couldn't win without Kareem and Worthy. Same goes with Bird. He needed Parish and McHale/Cornbread.

Thomas is a huge piece to getting a title.

Then you have Horford who is a good player. He is a 6'10 Center that has average 2.5 rebounds in the last 2 games while averaging over 30 minutes a game.

Then we have Bradley. Another good player like Horford who is hurt every year.

Other than that you have Crowder and Smart that are decent. Everyone else on the team is average and inconsistent.

Warriors have 4 of the top 20 players in the league. We have only one. It's no contest.

You're underestimating IT's teammates. Every one of IT's teammates would've been a rotation player under Doc Rivers' Celtics. AB, JC, Horford, Smart, Amir and KO would all be in Greg Pop's rotation if they were on the Spurs roster.

Okay. Maybe not Olynyk. That was a reach.