2025 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 – Capture the Flagg

[Curmudgeon]

I don't like anyone projected 8 through 20. Too many small guys, and I don't love the big kid from Duke, although I haven't watched much film of him. Too may guys with holes in their game, e.g. Demin, who is fun to watch but can't shoot, or guys who are just plain raw like Essengue. I think there are just as many guys projected to go 25-40 who can become good NBA rotation players: Wolf (if he can learn to defend and stop throwing the ball away), Raynaud (defense could be an issue), Kalkbrenner (same), Proctor (decent stats on a loaded team) Advalas (skilled but needs to put on muscle), Chaz Lanier (good player but he's 24 years old).

[Celts17Pride]

If the Celtics stay at #28 and #32, I would be happy if the Celtics came away with two of (Coward, Fleming, Kalkbrenner, Raynaud, Lanier, Small). Problem is I don't think the Celtics will be staying at #28 and #32.

[Curmudgeon]

If you want to stay competitive, you unload high priced veterans and draft well. I think that is what Stevens will try to do, so I would expect those two picks to stay. Cheap labor. For example, if Scheierman pans out, he's a huge bargain. In contrast, the #1 or #2 pick costs just a few million less than a veteran on the MLE.

[playa-hater]

Brett Siegel from clutchpoints drops an indepth intel mock today.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/nba-stories/2025-nba-mock-draft-76ers-ace-bailey-third-pick-dilemma

Celts take:
28. Maxime Raynaud
"Maxime Raynaud has been one of the highest risers and biggest winners during the pre-draft process. It is possible he goes before the Boston Celtics are ready to pick, but if Raynaud is available, this would be a slam dunk of a selection for Brad Stevens to replace either Kristaps Porzingis or Al Horford in the frontcourt.

This season at Stanford, Raynaud averaged 20.2 points and 10.6 rebounds per game while shooting 34.7 percent from the perimeter. His size and shooting abilities make him the ideal frontcourt talent for a team like the Celtics, who will be making roster changes this offseason.

As reported on ClutchPoints, the Celtics haven't indicated that they will move Derrick White. While it's possible Jrue Holiday could be moved, Boston would prefer to keep their backcourt together to make another championship push. That is why adding depth to the frontcourt with Raynaud, especially given Porzingis' unknown future, can pay off tenfold."

32. Chaz Lanier
Chaz Lanier enters the 2025 NBA Draft as one of the most NBA-ready players due to his 3-and-D presence on the wing, and he is drawing comparisons to Luguentz Dort among some scouts due to his defensive toughness. With all the uncertainty surrounding Boston's future, Lanier could provide immediate depth as a consistent shooting guard for the Celtics.
---

I'd be fine with Raynaud. I don't think he's gonna be a center in the pro's tho, I think he's a shooting 4man, like a Andrea Bargnani type and I just don't see a world where he is keeping 5men off the boards. But I like him as a prospect.
Chaz Lanier seems like a too much a reach for pick #32 imo. I know he has his fans but other than the shooting, I don't see what he brings to the table for a pick that high. I'd like higher feel players and players that are advantage creators more than just adding shooting imo

I would hate it if the draft fell like that. But the 2 Picks are good in that scenario.

Now I really want a mid to high first for Jrue.

[165bows]

Brett Siegel from clutchpoints drops an indepth intel mock today.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/nba-stories/2025-nba-mock-draft-76ers-ace-bailey-third-pick-dilemma

Celts take:
28. Maxime Raynaud
"Maxime Raynaud has been one of the highest risers and biggest winners during the pre-draft process. It is possible he goes before the Boston Celtics are ready to pick, but if Raynaud is available, this would be a slam dunk of a selection for Brad Stevens to replace either Kristaps Porzingis or Al Horford in the frontcourt.

This season at Stanford, Raynaud averaged 20.2 points and 10.6 rebounds per game while shooting 34.7 percent from the perimeter. His size and shooting abilities make him the ideal frontcourt talent for a team like the Celtics, who will be making roster changes this offseason.

As reported on ClutchPoints, the Celtics haven't indicated that they will move Derrick White. While it's possible Jrue Holiday could be moved, Boston would prefer to keep their backcourt together to make another championship push. That is why adding depth to the frontcourt with Raynaud, especially given Porzingis' unknown future, can pay off tenfold."

32. Chaz Lanier
Chaz Lanier enters the 2025 NBA Draft as one of the most NBA-ready players due to his 3-and-D presence on the wing, and he is drawing comparisons to Luguentz Dort among some scouts due to his defensive toughness. With all the uncertainty surrounding Boston's future, Lanier could provide immediate depth as a consistent shooting guard for the Celtics.
---

I'd be fine with Raynaud. I don't think he's gonna be a center in the pro's tho, I think he's a shooting 4man, like a Andrea Bargnani type and I just don't see a world where he is keeping 5men off the boards. But I like him as a prospect.
Chaz Lanier seems like a too much a reach for pick #32 imo. I know he has his fans but other than the shooting, I don't see what he brings to the table for a pick that high. I'd like higher feel players and players that are advantage creators more than just adding shooting imo

Same boat with both these picks. I like the buddy Hield comp for Lanier or more likely a poor man’s Hield which is just too one dimensional for me.

Raynaud is tantalizing but same concern that he might be a, uh, well let’s just say not nearly physical enough. Not only on the boards which is huge (not only just cost a playoff series but it’s a huge additional burden on Tatum to have to totally control the boards on top of everything else) but also in screen setting (which they require everyone to do and when KP couldn’t screen to save his life that cost the series too).

[165bows]

Another guy I haven’t been that fond of is Drake Powell. Idk I guess I shy away from guys that are high end athlete/tools guys that don’t really have that much production.

But I like this description more than I expected, especially his defensive capacity. Sounds a lot like Nesmith in this article actually and we also all know they aren’t afraid of a wing with questionable ball handling.

But I guess I’m a lot more apt to give a high level athlete that brings it on D a ton more leeway so I’m alright with Powell.

At the present moment, Drake Powell often finds himself mocked in the early portion of the second round. I wish I could leave you with a spicy take, but that feels about right to me. There are real hangups. He was an extremely low-usage college player (13.8 USG%), and typically, it’s guys who did a lot in college who scale down best into NBA roles. His shooting resume is a bit spotty, he’s a limited ball handler, and he’s a bit smaller than you’d like a wing-stopper to be. Given the confines that the current collective bargaining agreement places on teams, it’s understandable for NBA organizations to look at those shortcomings and say, “we don’t want to guarantee a bunch of years and dollars to that type of player.”

Still, that doesn’t mean he can’t work. To be clear, I do think a front office will be best served to utilize patience with Powell. But he’s an excellent point-of-attack defender, a phenomenal athlete, a solid ball-mover, and a willing shooter. Given the rarity of his physical traits and the value of those skills within a 6’5.25” frame with a 7’0” wingspan, there’s reason to believe that Powell can put the pieces together and become an eventual NBA contributor. Given that he’s only 19 years old, that’s a very reasonable bet to take at a certain point in the draft, especially a depth-depleted one like this class. Personally, I’m leery of higher-end outcomes given his shot mechanics and creation issues. A lot would have to go right for him to evolve into a top three offensive option for a team. If he can get his shot right, though, he has enough valuable role player skills that he could be a valuable rotation piece if things swing right.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-drake-powell-predicament

[playa-hater]

Another guy I haven’t been that fond of is Drake Powell. Idk I guess I shy away from guys that are high end athlete/tools guys that don’t really have that much production.

But I like this description more than I expected, especially his defensive capacity. Sounds a lot like Nesmith in this article actually and we also all know they aren’t afraid of a wing with questionable ball handling.

But I guess I’m a lot more apt to give a high level athlete that brings it on D a ton more leeway so I’m alright with Powell.

At the present moment, Drake Powell often finds himself mocked in the early portion of the second round. I wish I could leave you with a spicy take, but that feels about right to me. There are real hangups. He was an extremely low-usage college player (13.8 USG%), and typically, it’s guys who did a lot in college who scale down best into NBA roles. His shooting resume is a bit spotty, he’s a limited ball handler, and he’s a bit smaller than you’d like a wing-stopper to be. Given the confines that the current collective bargaining agreement places on teams, it’s understandable for NBA organizations to look at those shortcomings and say, “we don’t want to guarantee a bunch of years and dollars to that type of player.”

Still, that doesn’t mean he can’t work. To be clear, I do think a front office will be best served to utilize patience with Powell. But he’s an excellent point-of-attack defender, a phenomenal athlete, a solid ball-mover, and a willing shooter. Given the rarity of his physical traits and the value of those skills within a 6’5.25” frame with a 7’0” wingspan, there’s reason to believe that Powell can put the pieces together and become an eventual NBA contributor. Given that he’s only 19 years old, that’s a very reasonable bet to take at a certain point in the draft, especially a depth-depleted one like this class. Personally, I’m leery of higher-end outcomes given his shot mechanics and creation issues. A lot would have to go right for him to evolve into a top three offensive option for a team. If he can get his shot right, though, he has enough valuable role player skills that he could be a valuable rotation piece if things swing right.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-drake-powell-predicament

Is it fair to categorize him as a potential high ceiling but low floor type player?

[ThePigeon]

None of those guards are as good or as experienced as Davison and would cost just as much. Stupid mock.

Yeah
AI has a long way to go when it comes to sports

It's not that it has a way to go, it's that not built for the job it's asked to do here. Anybody with even the faintest idea of how LLMs work would know how silly it is to use it in this context. It's like using a screwdriver to eat soup, it's just not the right tool for the job.

I know how it works and it can do the job when using the deep research option and the right data (or data sources)
I thought it will generate something like the consensus draft. It generated something different
ChatGPT generated a mock with the 23-24 and 24-25 players

[165bows]

Another guy I haven’t been that fond of is Drake Powell. Idk I guess I shy away from guys that are high end athlete/tools guys that don’t really have that much production.

But I like this description more than I expected, especially his defensive capacity. Sounds a lot like Nesmith in this article actually and we also all know they aren’t afraid of a wing with questionable ball handling.

But I guess I’m a lot more apt to give a high level athlete that brings it on D a ton more leeway so I’m alright with Powell.

At the present moment, Drake Powell often finds himself mocked in the early portion of the second round. I wish I could leave you with a spicy take, but that feels about right to me. There are real hangups. He was an extremely low-usage college player (13.8 USG%), and typically, it’s guys who did a lot in college who scale down best into NBA roles. His shooting resume is a bit spotty, he’s a limited ball handler, and he’s a bit smaller than you’d like a wing-stopper to be. Given the confines that the current collective bargaining agreement places on teams, it’s understandable for NBA organizations to look at those shortcomings and say, “we don’t want to guarantee a bunch of years and dollars to that type of player.”

Still, that doesn’t mean he can’t work. To be clear, I do think a front office will be best served to utilize patience with Powell. But he’s an excellent point-of-attack defender, a phenomenal athlete, a solid ball-mover, and a willing shooter. Given the rarity of his physical traits and the value of those skills within a 6’5.25” frame with a 7’0” wingspan, there’s reason to believe that Powell can put the pieces together and become an eventual NBA contributor. Given that he’s only 19 years old, that’s a very reasonable bet to take at a certain point in the draft, especially a depth-depleted one like this class. Personally, I’m leery of higher-end outcomes given his shot mechanics and creation issues. A lot would have to go right for him to evolve into a top three offensive option for a team. If he can get his shot right, though, he has enough valuable role player skills that he could be a valuable rotation piece if things swing right.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-drake-powell-predicament

Is it fair to categorize him as a potential high ceiling but low floor type player?

I'm not sure as I'm not that familiar with him, but I suppose the high ceiling part is there in that he's young, good length and athleticism, possibly can shoot, and sounds solid on D. So if the other offensive tools have a possibility I guess that creates the higher ceiling but I have no idea if that is a possibility.

I do think I'm pretty good just knowing what archetypes are valuable - seems like a good outcome is a wing-ier KCP type of player which imo is pretty valuable at that spot in the draft. That said it sounds like he's got a ways to develop into whatever he's going to be so prob a development play. I don't dislike him as much as I did though lol.

[brackdan70]

I actually like Powell at 32. Points above are all valid though, but he has high end defense potential, and seems to have the basic skill to put it together offensively. I think he has a decent floor as a useful 3/D guy. And a pretty high ceiling.

[Curmudgeon]

I think Powell has a promise. He skipped the 5 on 5 scrimmages at the combine. But who knows? The three point percentage looks good but the free throw percentage is not. He can jump.

I don't expect the Celtics to pick up the team option on Jordan Walsh so maybe Powell could be a Walsh replacement, with better offense but probably less defense.

[redslastlaugh]

Free to Read: Athletic's Sam Vecenie Draft Guide: TOP 100 Rankings, player profiles
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6414203/2025/06/10/nba-draft-guide-2025-top-100-prospects-cooper-flagg/

Top 20 at the website. Report downloadable with free password for entire report. Assume this report will go behind a paywall at some point. Right now, it is free to read.

Here are Vecenies's 28-40 rated prospects:

28. Ben Saraf
29. Hugo Gonzalez
30. Asa Newell
31. Maxime Raynaud
32. Kam Jones
33. Rasheer Fleming
34. Drake Powell
35. John Tonje
36. Tyrese Proctor
37. Alex Toohey
38. Sion James
39. Alijah Martin
40. Johni Broome

[Gant]

AdamTaylorNBA‬

The Celtics worked out Steve Settle out of Temple today, his agent, Drew Kelso of OneMotiveSports tells me.

Settle, a 6-foot-11 wing, played 31 games for the Owls this season. He averaged 12.6 points, 6.2 rebounds and 1.7 assists.

He shot a career high 41.6% from deep on 3.6 attempts per game, while also hitting a career high 52.9% from 2-point range this season.

Settle is a five-year collegiate player, having spent 3 seasons with Howard before transferring to Temple in 2023.

https://bsky.app/profile/adamtaylornba.bsky.social/post/3lrb7z36mas24

[djFan71]

Free to Read: Athletic's Sam Vecenie Draft Guide: TOP 100 Rankings, player profiles
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6414203/2025/06/10/nba-draft-guide-2025-top-100-prospects-cooper-flagg/

Top 20 at the website. Report downloadable with free password for entire report. Assume this report will go behind a paywall at some point. Right now, it is free to read.

Here are Vecenies's 28-40 rated prospects:

28. Ben Saraf
29. Hugo Gonzalez
30. Asa Newell
31. Maxime Raynaud
32. Kam Jones
33. Rasheer Fleming
34. Drake Powell
35. John Tonje
36. Tyrese Proctor
37. Alex Toohey
38. Sion James
39. Alijah Martin
40. Johni Broome

I like that section. Have just been starting to look at Martin. Insanely in depth PDF.

Dumb to pick at typos, but this cracked me up on Fleming: "Massive human. He's 6 feet 25 without shoes"

[redslastlaugh]

Some of the Celts workouts this year have been some deep, deep cuts ... lol

AdamTaylorNBA‬

The Celtics worked out Steve Settle out of Temple today, his agent, Drew Kelso of OneMotiveSports tells me.

Settle, a 6-foot-11 wing, played 31 games for the Owls this season. He averaged 12.6 points, 6.2 rebounds and 1.7 assists.

He shot a career high 41.6% from deep on 3.6 attempts per game, while also hitting a career high 52.9% from 2-point range this season.

Settle is a five-year collegiate player, having spent 3 seasons with Howard before transferring to Temple in 2023.

https://bsky.app/profile/adamtaylornba.bsky.social/post/3lrb7z36mas24

[Curmudgeon]

Has Avdalas pulled out of the draft? I don't see him anywhere on Sam Vecenie's list.

[redslastlaugh]

Not yet. He released a statement saying IF he drops out he will attend Univ of Virginia, but he hasn't officially withdrawn. Internationals have a later w/d date than collegians, so he still has time to decide.

I guess he's giving NBA teams a last chance to make a promise but it looks like there's a good chance he pulls out and goes to college

Has Avdalas pulled out of the draft? I don't see him anywhere on Sam Vecenie's list.

[redslastlaugh]

Here are Vecenies's 28-40 rated prospects:

28. Ben Saraf
29. Hugo Gonzalez
30. Asa Newell
31. Maxime Raynaud
32. Kam Jones
33. Rasheer Fleming
34. Drake Powell
35. John Tonje
36. Tyrese Proctor
37. Alex Toohey
38. Sion James
39. Alijah Martin
40. Johni Broome

I like that section. Have just been starting to look at Martin. Insanely in depth PDF.

Dumb to pick at typos, but this cracked me up on Fleming: "Massive human. He's 6 feet 25 without shoes"

Sam Vecenie puts in the work. I'm sure international teams buy his research which is why there is so much deep background that is, frankly, more than I need to know. Do I need to know what Ryan Kalkbrenner's mom did for a living? I do not, lol

Intel from NBA teams inform his rankings which makes his 28-40 really interesting, imo. If Asa Newell, Fleming, Raynaud are all the board that's a good scenario. And the physical guards Sion James and Alijah Martin are moving up to the fringe first area, which is also interesting. And I don't think he's a Mazzulla Ball guard, but Ben Saraf is interesting to me too. This next two weeks gonna be good with the apron/tax trades going into the draft!

[djFan71]

Here are Vecenies's 28-40 rated prospects:

28. Ben Saraf
29. Hugo Gonzalez
30. Asa Newell
31. Maxime Raynaud
32. Kam Jones
33. Rasheer Fleming
34. Drake Powell
35. John Tonje
36. Tyrese Proctor
37. Alex Toohey
38. Sion James
39. Alijah Martin
40. Johni Broome

I like that section. Have just been starting to look at Martin. Insanely in depth PDF.

Dumb to pick at typos, but this cracked me up on Fleming: "Massive human. He's 6 feet 25 without shoes"

Sam Vecenie puts in the work. I'm sure international teams buy his research which is why there is so much deep background that is, frankly, more than I need to know. Do I need to know what Ryan Kalkbrenner's mom did for a living? I do not, lol

Intel from NBA teams inform his rankings which makes his 28-40 really interesting, imo. If Asa Newell, Fleming, Raynaud are all the boards that's a good scenario. And the physical guards Sion James and Alijah Martin are moving up to the fringe first area, which is also interesting. This next two weeks gonna be good with the apron/tax trades going into the draft!

Leading with the parents cracked me up too. Literal first line for Fleming: "Mother is Dana." Great, lol.

But yeah, I like about half the guys in that 28-40 section. Thiero right before at 27, too. But, I'm at that stage now where you wonder if you really like them or if you've just heard the names enough at higher spots that now you think it's great they fell to 28.

[165bows]

Free to Read: Athletic's Sam Vecenie Draft Guide: TOP 100 Rankings, player profiles
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6414203/2025/06/10/nba-draft-guide-2025-top-100-prospects-cooper-flagg/

Top 20 at the website. Report downloadable with free password for entire report. Assume this report will go behind a paywall at some point. Right now, it is free to read.

Here are Vecenies's 28-40 rated prospects:

28. Ben Saraf
29. Hugo Gonzalez
30. Asa Newell
31. Maxime Raynaud
32. Kam Jones
33. Rasheer Fleming
34. Drake Powell
35. John Tonje
36. Tyrese Proctor
37. Alex Toohey
38. Sion James
39. Alijah Martin
40. Johni Broome

I like that section. Have just been starting to look at Martin. Insanely in depth PDF.

Dumb to pick at typos, but this cracked me up on Fleming: "Massive human. He's 6 feet 25 without shoes"

This is a pretty good verbiage to describe what I've been trying to say. Basically the combination of size, movement and versatility is the key in the game today.

As I’ve covered the draft and NBA as a whole, I’ve also started to adjust what I look for in players and the kinds of players who tend to be valuable to me as an evaluator. For instance, this year, you will not find a single player in my lottery who is under 6-foot-4 without shoes, with V.J. Edgecombe ending up as the smallest. In today’s NBA, it’s just exceptionally difficult to be small while providing value. Essentially, smaller lead creators need to either hit All-Star status or risk turning into bench players, as many of them are defensive liabilities. What I value is finding players who can dribble, pass, shoot and defend, all while doing so with positional size. Those are the guys in the modern NBA who have value. Can you achieve the responsibilities of your role on defense? Can you hit shots and force defenses to stay in rotation when you play off the ball? Can you create your own shot and threaten defenses? And can you process the game at a high enough level to make quick decisions, space the court off the ball and make high-level passing reads when you have the ball? Precious few players are going to achieve all of these tasks. But finding those skills is the baseline goal.