Gentlemen Celts Spot Rest of League 1 Game Head Start! Opening Night Loss vs PHI 10/22

[bisme37]

Last night I realized I'm going to spend a lot of games this year collecting highlight tweets for the victory thread and then not posting them haha.

[playa-hater]

Last night I realized I'm going to spend a lot of games this year collecting highlight tweets for the victory thread and then not posting them haha.

[playa-hater]

One game in and the Tank Mafia is back?! LOL going to be a longggg season for you folks. Queta was a beast tonight, wish Joe didn't go on his suburban league substitution style the entire first half, absolutely no rhythm to the game. Joe pushing for no timeout at the end says all we need to know about his X's and O's style, they don't really exist haha. Anyways C's shoot 25% from 3's and should still have won this game.... Hauser needs a seat on the bench, he's been below average for a long time now, I'd insert Simons into the Lineup. Overall not a great shooting night but this team will not be complete until midseason, so a lot of to look fwd to. Def not getting tank vibes as a handful here now are hoping, it's game 1 and they lost by a pt. Go C's!

Everything you said I agree with. Except the tank mafia part. There is no chance of going on a deep, playoff run. and there isn't much benefit getting to a play-in level finish. Boston needs a young star player going forward. Yes there is a chance that drafting one in the teens. But odds are certainly higher in the early lottery. Wouldn't it be nice to draft a VJ Edgecombe type of talent??

So 1 game didn't change my perspective. It only reinforced it.

[Larry_Russell]

Lets see.

1) Celtics shot too many threes
2) Celtics have a WEAK center rotation...below weak actually
3) Simons is terrible at defense, maybe worse than Pritchard
4) Celtics blew a lead in the 4th
5) Jaylen almost dribbled the ball away in crunch time at end of 4th
6) Joe is still a very questionable coach.

[Shak_Celts]

I just want to know when it counts and when it doesn’t. Who do we count it for or against? Does it really matter? I really want to know why, if it does.

Honestly, plus/minus is who is winning the game. Lots of things that affect the game don't show up in the boxscore per se, but wins and losses don't lie.

Obviously, it's complicated because 5 men are on the court at any time and hard to divide what player's responsible for what, esp any given role player, but over the long run, the plus/minus reveals what players are winning the games.

I think plus/minus (in context) is really important and maybe the most important thing because it's results oriented. It's hard to understand every intangible and tangible thing that leads to winning, so it's easy to miss something, but the plus/minus is just telling me what happened.

And, were you referencing Jaylen Brown's plus/minus and that his lpus/minus and on/off was better last year and playoffs? If so, I think JB's game took another step last year, with playmaking and whatnot and his on/offs were his best ever, and I think that reflects his growth as a player

I wasn’t referencing JB’s +/-, in that sense, because I don’t know it. I don't know anybody’s really. I can get a sense of things, when it’s not said by some people, who were very vocal over the years. It’s like the absence of a constant speaks volumes. I do know I pay attention to some posters more than others, they have been real quiet on this and other things the last few seasons.

They were consistent on things that (they thought) JB did wrong, now season after season, you see it with other beloved players and they go mum. When I mention things, a couple come up with new excuses to why it isn’t the same.

I could name a few things people criticized him for, Hateration, but the original post referenced this, so I responded. If I could discuss this stuff over the years, civilly, why can’t they? I feel it’s because they don’t want to admit to hypocrisy and the fact they know I know (others too), that it was haters united. There really is no other excuse.

Even when I was upset about the constant dragging, I still enjoyed it. Now it’s basically HUSH, when the tables turn. Nah, come on out, let me enjoy it some more. I didn’t even get to dance on them when we won the chip! At least let’s have real discussions about this other stuff.

The question that wasn’t answered, is it only useful when it’s JB?


Also, even though this game thread isn’t popping, I’ll respond again, if you do, but I won’t keep talking about it in here. I want more discussion about the game. We aren’t supposed to judge the whole season by one game, but I thought there were interesting things that should be talked about in here.

[Shak_Celts]

Lets see.

1) Celtics shot too many threes
2) Celtics have a WEAK center rotation...below weak actually
3) Simons is terrible at defense, maybe worse than Pritchard
4) Celtics blew a lead in the 4th
5) Jaylen almost dribbled the ball away in crunch time at end of 4th
6) Joe is still a very questionable coach.

1) no they didn’t. Faster pace, will mean more 3s and shots anyway. Probably the reason why we still scored so many pts, but couldn’t hit the 3.
2) Maybe. The Sixers seem to be in a worse situation. We need more time to evaluate.
3) He made a mistake or two, for sure. He just wasn’t as bad as you’re saying and worth mentioning on D tonight. Pritchard was our best guard defender, last night based on eye test, but someone may have the disagreeing stats. Why only reference Simons, the known poor defender?
4) Yep! I agree. Likely the loss of Queta.
5) He can’t do that, but Brandy said, “almost doesn’t count.”
6) Every coach is questionable, some more than others. Joe isn’t that bad. Certainly shouldn’t be judged off this game. Maybe not even this season, considering a lot of posters claim this team to be terrible (putting it mildly)… they still seem to have high/unrealistic expectations though, unsurprisingly.

Edit: Most of the 3s were butt booty naked. The majority of the shots were from shooters that are CAREER high level from 3. Sam, Pritch and White (Celtics career) are top notch distance shooters! You couldn’t ask for better looks from a better shooting group unless you’re looking to the warriors with KD and Klay. Could be an exaggeration, but those 3 Celts live around 40% consistently.

[djFan71]

I may have to reconsider my position on not posting after losses this year or I may only get to post half the time give or take.
I think the minutes distribution was about right. Top 4 players in low 30s minutes, 6 more guys from the mid teens to low 20s.

To get Hugo and other guys more time, it was up to Brad to remove the players ahead of them, not on Joe to force them time. It's only 1 game, but I still like my keep Kornet over Hauser, move Simons, save $, and play the young guys plan more for the team's long term future.

[Bad-Thoma]

I may have to reconsider my position on not posting after losses this year or I may only get to post half the time give or take.
I think the minutes distribution was about right. Top 4 players in low 30s minutes, 6 more guys from the mid teens to low 20s.

To get Hugo and other guys more time, it was up to Brad to remove the players ahead of them, not on Joe to force them time. It's only 1 game, but I still like my keep Kornet over Hauser, move Simons, save $, and play the young guys plan more for the team's long term future.

I would have loved to have kept Kornet over Hauser if it was possible but I was really high on Luke as a contributor outside the box score. Sam's a serviceable player but Luke would have filled a much larger need. I'm not complaining though, I don't remember all the details but I think the timing of things may have been part of what cost us a chance of retaining Luke and s**t happens.

[Larry_Russell]

Lets see.

1) Celtics shot too many threes
2) Celtics have a WEAK center rotation...below weak actually
3) Simons is terrible at defense, maybe worse than Pritchard
4) Celtics blew a lead in the 4th
5) Jaylen almost dribbled the ball away in crunch time at end of 4th
6) Joe is still a very questionable coach.

1) no they didn’t. Faster pace, will mean more 3s and shots anyway. Probably the reason why we still scored so many pts, but couldn’t hit the 3.
2) Maybe. The Sixers seem to be in a worse situation. We need more time to evaluate.
3) He made a mistake or two, for sure. He just wasn’t as bad as you’re saying and worth mentioning on D tonight. Pritchard was our best guard defender, last night based on eye test, but someone may have the disagreeing stats. Why only reference Simons, the known poor defender?
4) He can’t do that, but Brandy said, “almost doesn’t count.”
5) Every coach is questionable, some more than others. Joe isn’t that bad. Certainly shouldn’t be judged off this game. Maybe not even this season, considering a lot of posters claim this team to be terrible (putting it mildly)… they still seem to have high/unrealistic expectations though, unsurprisingly.

1) Pace was slightly faster last night than last seasons average, and I firmly believe that 40% of your shots from 3 is too many (Unless you have Steph Curry and Klay Thompson in their peaks), Celtics had 47% of their shots from 3. And speaking of GS, if you look at their 73 win season....they only shot 36% of their shots from 3.

2) Sixers center position is not weaker than Queta and Garza. Jeez. I take Embiid and Drummon 1000/100 over Queta and Garza (ignoring money)

3) Because Simons was the BIG offseason acquisition after losing Jrue and KP. He was supposed to be a difference maker. Pritchard is the barometer as a scoring primary guard who at times is hard to play due to his defensive limitations that gets hunted by opposing teams. Last night Pritchard was a superior defender to Simons, who has the knock of ALWAYS being lack luster, lack effort on that end of floor. I was told he would be way better surrounded by better defenders, he looked lost out there last night.

4) I dont get your response, they blew a lead.

5) Maybe your point 4, was towards my point 5? still doesnt make sense.

6) I am basing my personal evaluation of Joe on far more than last nights game. Joe has no ability to vary from his plan of "be tough, shoot threes"

[Larry_Russell]

I may have to reconsider my position on not posting after losses this year or I may only get to post half the time give or take.
I think the minutes distribution was about right. Top 4 players in low 30s minutes, 6 more guys from the mid teens to low 20s.

To get Hugo and other guys more time, it was up to Brad to remove the players ahead of them, not on Joe to force them time. It's only 1 game, but I still like my keep Kornet over Hauser, move Simons, save $, and play the young guys plan more for the team's long term future.

I was OK with losing Kornet, until Brad gave Away KP and I always held out hope he would actually get a decent center...he didnt at all.

So Now I am more than ok with trading Simons for that Center and I believe team is vastly better for it.

And Hugo has really impressed me, I was very down on him at draft, but hope I am very wrong. Give him steading minutes.,

[Bad-Thoma]

The offense took 4 less 3's than last season's average and a huge portion of them were great looks. Only hitting 25% cost us the game far more than anything else. If the team keeps generating those looks and playing at that pace the offense shouldn't be an issue at all. The defensive rotations are bound to improve with time and repetition, missing 4 of our top 7 rotation players from last season and incorporating lots of new players made it inevitable that things would be a little haggard to start. Training camp and 4 preseason games aren't enough time to smooth that out, it's going to be a process. My biggest concern going forward is giving up offensive rebounds, that might be a personnel problem that schemes and effort can't overcome consistently.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Also, PP should not be starting, Simons should be. I like PP but he is a 6th man off the bench. Houser isn't a defender, shot creator, or a playmaker so unless he is hitting sots, which he was not doing last night, having him start is not going to work. Like PP he is a bench player.

[djFan71]

I may have to reconsider my position on not posting after losses this year or I may only get to post half the time give or take.
I think the minutes distribution was about right. Top 4 players in low 30s minutes, 6 more guys from the mid teens to low 20s.

To get Hugo and other guys more time, it was up to Brad to remove the players ahead of them, not on Joe to force them time. It's only 1 game, but I still like my keep Kornet over Hauser, move Simons, save $, and play the young guys plan more for the team's long term future.

I would have loved to have kept Kornet over Hauser if it was possible but I was really high on Luke as a contributor outside the box score. Sam's a serviceable player but Luke would have filled a much larger need. I'm not complaining though, I don't remember all the details but I think the timing of things may have been part of what cost us a chance of retaining Luke and s**t happens.

Yeah, it would have been sign Luke and know you had to flip Sam and/or Simons later to get under the 2nd. Which is a lot to juggle / puts you in a worse negotiating position. But, it was doable. I think they just were OK letting Luke leave at his price and keeping Sam.

[Shak_Celts]

I may have to reconsider my position on not posting after losses this year or I may only get to post half the time give or take.
I think the minutes distribution was about right. Top 4 players in low 30s minutes, 6 more guys from the mid teens to low 20s.

To get Hugo and other guys more time, it was up to Brad to remove the players ahead of them, not on Joe to force them time. It's only 1 game, but I still like my keep Kornet over Hauser, move Simons, save $, and play the young guys plan more for the team's long term future.

Nah, one of Hugo, Walsh, or Rico could have slows into some minutes. Could have given Minott more. I do like minutes distribution, I just thought it was too predictable on who played.

I truly believe Hugo (maybe Walsh) should have had a run on defense against Edgecomb or Maxey. I don’t think Joe goes out of the box enough, especially given how much he says he’s going to do it.

I’m not saying Hugo didn’t make mistakes, I’m not saying he was a stud from go. I am saying he showed enough to get some regular season minutes! If he had flashes from go, you need to force him early season, just to see if it’s real. Got rid of all that top talent and still won’t let pups get out there. I’m not talking about guys who should play, take some chances!!

You snagged Minott for a song, he’ll likely be cheap next season too, PLAY HIM!! Walsh is basically a cheerleader if he’s not playing this season, a waste of a spot in year 3. Rico is 1st round money, play him! If none of them deserve more rope in a season like this, then what are we doing here?

I get it Joe doesn’t like rookies or young guys, but with what they get paid, PLAY THEM!! It’s time to try and find the gem! If it’s not one is them, then we’ll know that too.

It’s one game, so I’m not overly irked. But play the young guys and guys who need evaluation. I also know you can’t play everybody, but I feel it already this season, it’s time to play the people that we don’t know about.


It’s one game, it’s one game, it’s one game, it’s one game! We have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate!

[djFan71]

I may have to reconsider my position on not posting after losses this year or I may only get to post half the time give or take.
I think the minutes distribution was about right. Top 4 players in low 30s minutes, 6 more guys from the mid teens to low 20s.

To get Hugo and other guys more time, it was up to Brad to remove the players ahead of them, not on Joe to force them time. It's only 1 game, but I still like my keep Kornet over Hauser, move Simons, save $, and play the young guys plan more for the team's long term future.

Nah, one of Hugo, Walsh, or Rico could have slows into some minutes. Could have given Minott more. I do like minutes distribution, I just thought it was too predictable on who played.

I truly believe Hugo (maybe Walsh) should have had a run on defense against Edgecomb or Maxey. I don’t think Joe goes out of the box enough, especially given how much he says he’s going to do it.

I’m not saying Hugo didn’t make mistakes, I’m not saying he was a stud from go. I am saying he showed enough to get some regular season minutes! If he had flashes from go, you need to force him early season, just to see if it’s real. Got rid of all that top talent and still won’t let pups get out there. I’m not talking about guys who should play, take some chances!!

You snagged Minott for a song, he’ll likely be cheap next season too, PLAY HIM!! Walsh is basically a cheerleader if he’s not playing this season, a waste of a spot in year 3. Rico is 1st round money, play him! If none of them deserve more rope in a season like this, then what are we doing here?

I get it Joe doesn’t like rookies or young guys, but with what they get paid, PLAY THEM!! It’s time to try and find the gem! If it’s not one is them, then we’ll know that too.

It’s one game, so I’m not overly irked. But play the young guys and guys who need evaluation. I also know you can’t play everybody, but I feel it already this season, it’s time to play the people that we don’t know about.


It’s one game, it’s one game, it’s one game, it’s one game! We have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate!

I want them all to play too. But, who would you have played less?

[Shak_Celts]

I may have to reconsider my position on not posting after losses this year or I may only get to post half the time give or take.
I think the minutes distribution was about right. Top 4 players in low 30s minutes, 6 more guys from the mid teens to low 20s.

To get Hugo and other guys more time, it was up to Brad to remove the players ahead of them, not on Joe to force them time. It's only 1 game, but I still like my keep Kornet over Hauser, move Simons, save $, and play the young guys plan more for the team's long term future.

Nah, one of Hugo, Walsh, or Rico could have slows into some minutes. Could have given Minott more. I do like minutes distribution, I just thought it was too predictable on who played.

I truly believe Hugo (maybe Walsh) should have had a run on defense against Edgecomb or Maxey. I don’t think Joe goes out of the box enough, especially given how much he says he’s going to do it.

I’m not saying Hugo didn’t make mistakes, I’m not saying he was a stud from go. I am saying he showed enough to get some regular season minutes! If he had flashes from go, you need to force him early season, just to see if it’s real. Got rid of all that top talent and still won’t let pups get out there. I’m not talking about guys who should play, take some chances!!

You snagged Minott for a song, he’ll likely be cheap next season too, PLAY HIM!! Walsh is basically a cheerleader if he’s not playing this season, a waste of a spot in year 3. Rico is 1st round money, play him! If none of them deserve more rope in a season like this, then what are we doing here?

I get it Joe doesn’t like rookies or young guys, but with what they get paid, PLAY THEM!! It’s time to try and find the gem! If it’s not one is them, then we’ll know that too.

It’s one game, so I’m not overly irked. But play the young guys and guys who need evaluation. I also know you can’t play everybody, but I feel it already this season, it’s time to play the people that we don’t know about.


It’s one game, it’s one game, it’s one game, it’s one game! We have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate, we have all season to evaluate!

I want them all to play too. But, who would you have played less?

I feel you, that’s why I said I know we can’t play them all. However, the guys that should play are the guys on easy money and young. So, 5 less minutes for all of White, Pritch, Simons, and JB. That gets you 20 to simply try a guy or two. Minott got 14, stick him to Edgecomb and give him 20. I didn’t watch him enough so he may have been bad on D when I wasn’t paying attention.

I thought everybody agreed to sacrifice? What’s 5 less minutes for each of them? Simons is the only one looking for a check out of the good players, I think.

Really all you needed was one brief stint for Walsh or Hugo to see if they could bother Edgecombe or Maxey when no one else was. I never heard defense mentioned for Rico, in good way, so not really about him.

[Shak_Celts]

I know Garza didn’t play a lot because of injury, but by game 2 of the preseason, I wasn’t impressed. That guaranteed money, seems like it’s gonna have a stranglehold to give him minutes this season when he’s healthy. I’m not sure I’m going to like it, he looks slow as molasses out there. Setting great screens is a valuable skill, but it just doesn’t sit right with me the way we look when he plays. I think better teams will destroy us with him out there. I could be wrong and I’ll be happy about it, but I haven’t been feeling him.

[Half-Full]

Honestly, the Celtics played hard and were entertaining last night. That's all that I wanted to see. You can't lose Holiday, Horford, Porzingis, Kornet and Tatum and replace them with Simons, Garza, Boucher, Tillman and Minott and not expect a major drop off. It's just unrealistic to think otherwise.

My only complaint about last night is no minutes for Hugo. Hugo needs to play 15+ minutes per night because he represents hope for the future.

Maxey and Edgecombe needed some tending to. A fresh Hugo and Walsh, instructed to go in and cover them hard for 3-4 minutes might have made a difference. No one else seemed to be very effective at defending them. What's the worst that could happen?

[Shak_Celts]

Honestly, the Celtics played hard and were entertaining last night. That's all that I wanted to see. You can't lose Holiday, Horford, Porzingis, Kornet and Tatum and replace them with Simons, Garza, Boucher, Tillman and Minott and not expect a major drop off. It's just unrealistic to think otherwise.

My only complaint about last night is no minutes for Hugo. Hugo needs to play 15+ minutes per night because he represents hope for the future.

Maxey and Edgecombe needed some tending to. A fresh Hugo and Walsh, instructed to go in and cover them hard for 3-4 minutes might have made a difference. No one else seemed to be very effective at defending them. What's the worst that could happen?

EXACTLY!

[GoCeltics123]

Honestly, the Celtics played hard and were entertaining last night. That's all that I wanted to see. You can't lose Holiday, Horford, Porzingis, Kornet and Tatum and replace them with Simons, Garza, Boucher, Tillman and Minott and not expect a major drop off. It's just unrealistic to think otherwise.

My only complaint about last night is no minutes for Hugo. Hugo needs to play 15+ minutes per night because he represents hope for the future.

Maxey and Edgecombe needed some tending to. A fresh Hugo and Walsh, instructed to go in and cover them hard for 3-4 minutes might have made a difference. No one else seemed to be very effective at defending them. What's the worst that could happen?

Hugo should've played for sure.

Walsh would've made no difference, whatever he gives you on defense, he gives up on offense. Minott is already better than him