Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks.

[exculpatory]

Trade didn't look too good when first announced. However, considering the pick is probably in 2016, and Dallas has an old star in Dirk and plays in a brutal conference that pick could be in the 10-14 range. Also, the TPE could probably get Ainge another pick...

I can't blame Ainge for holding onto Rondo this long, because there was a really good shot @ Love, until the League rigged the draft for Cleveland.

In regard to Wright & Nelson, I suspect both are gone by the trade deadline... Both can help a team.

Agree totally.

[exculpatory]

Pete and Humblebum are saying what I didn't articulate as well last night. And if I put on my psychologist hat I'd propose that Rondo's been overcompensating for his obvious scoring deficiency by trying to put APG through the roof for years now. It worried me when it started ('most assists through the first 10 games of the season' stat-tracking, that 'most games with 10+ assists' stuff, until the last days we had arguments about how meaningful leading the league in triple doubles with 10-12-10 games in losses really was, etc.) and over the last three years turned one of my favorite Celtics into someone I was ready to move on from. Ironically, it didn't have to be that way - if he weren't so stubborn, he could just keep shooting his floater and jumper and suck it up and be a 16-5-9 guy. But he had to try to be the iconoclastic genius and be a 10-10-13 guy (not that that happened, but I think that was his dream, to be 'first since the Big O' to average a triple double).

Most of the Mavs quotes are emphasizing his ability on D, with good reason, and I'm sure he has enough to prove that he'll put in the effort there. If he doesn't that next contract's not going to be what he's hoping. I'm just glad to be able to stop thinking about his idiosyncracies now.

Agree with all EXCEPT that he never has had & never will have the offensive ability to be a 16-5-9 guy during the RS, 16 being the key number. His career-long offensive liabilities have always been & will always be too significant - excepting several magical PO series for which I am grateful.

Danny did him a huge favor & put him on the right team - at least in the short term. He now once again has the opportunity to play to his strengths - superior distributing to stud scorers, playing harassing D with his ginormously long arms & gigantic hands, & rebounding exceptionally well for his height.
I wish him success!

Master's or PhD?

[gocelts]

It's been a few days....I'm still pissed and disagree with every single "positive" spin on this crap trade....

That said, why are we trading away Nelson and Wright?

Nelson is a smart tested player and could actually be the perfect backup/mentor for a young point guard like Smart. He's too slow now to help anyone good, but he fits our needs nicely.
Wright is a solid young center on a GOOD team, why would he not be productive on ours? Wright himself has more value than say the 25th pick in 2016.....why dump him too? I guess for another pick? He's probably better than Zeller. Just asking...

Bottom line, we still aren't bad enought to tank into the bottom 3. To do that we would to do more than trade these guys and Thornton and bass....we'd have to bench Smart, Green, and Sully. We got the 6th pick last year with an injured Rondo, we'll likely do the same with Smart.

If the next move after this horrid mess is to truly tank...then we can't field a roster like that until NEXT year...

[GuyClinch]

C's aren't tanking - the way you imagine they are. They are trying to develop young talent - you do that by getting young players - putting them in your system and trying to make them play the way you want.

When you develop young talent - you often end up losing a lot of games. If you think they are going to sixer style and purposely put out **** teams for the sake of losing - well I don't think Stevens and Ainge are down with that. The beauty is the Nets can do the tanking for us..

[humblebum]

Rondo to me is like Russell Wilson. Put a great team around him and he has enough moxy and athleticism to get the job done in an unorthodox fashion but if you ask him to carry a team like Aaron Rogers and it's going to be FUGLY.

QB comparisons for Rondo are the problem. Rondo didn't understand that the Celtics wanted a basketball player - not a guy whose only job is to set people up. Brad Stevens like almost all modern coaches wants 5 guys that can shoot, pass and drive. And on the defensive end they need to be able to D up guys. Rondo should be able to drive - but isn't and he can't really shoot by NBA standards. And his defense has been poor - unless you shop around for some broken statistic that makes it look good.

Its not 'shocking' that the team has played better without him the past couple of years. Older players like Pierce and KG might sometimes appreciate the burden that Rondo takes off their ball handling duties but guys like Sully, KO, Green, even AB want to handle the ball. AB had 7 assists last night.

Privately I'd wager that Stevens is thrilled about this deal. He has guys who will listen to him. Despite protests to the contrary does anyone here outside of the usual suspects think Rondo was running the motion offense?

What exactly were we running in the Magic game? I think Rondo bought in fine to the system - it was his frequent inability/unwillingness to score that would muck things up.

But as we will soon see, the replacement guards will soon be mucking things up in their own way once the competition stiffens and the entire game isn't one big transition sequence.

I actually agree that things will bog down in the halfcourt more now. But I think that's the trick about Rondo... he always makes the offensive appear as if it's operating more smoothly and efficiently than it actually is because of how crisp his ball handling, passing, and pick and roll/pop execution is.

When you take him out of the picture, ultimately you're still getting the same mediocre looks from mid-range and three that Rondo produces... it's just less pretty to watch.

The offensive efficiency stats for the team generally reflect this reality. He doesn't make offenses more effective or efficient but there is a veneer that makes it look like he does.

Ainge's recent comments about finding a star that helps you win vs. a star that fans like to watch seems to echo that reality. Rondo is a fan favorite because of how creative and artistic he is... Smart, Turner, Bradley aren't artists but they can do things for you that help you win ball games.

[BfB]

Pete and Humblebum are saying what I didn't articulate as well last night. And if I put on my psychologist hat I'd propose that Rondo's been overcompensating for his obvious scoring deficiency by trying to put APG through the roof for years now. It worried me when it started ('most assists through the first 10 games of the season' stat-tracking, that 'most games with 10+ assists' stuff, until the last days we had arguments about how meaningful leading the league in triple doubles with 10-12-10 games in losses really was, etc.) and over the last three years turned one of my favorite Celtics into someone I was ready to move on from. Ironically, it didn't have to be that way - if he weren't so stubborn, he could just keep shooting his floater and jumper and suck it up and be a 16-5-9 guy. But he had to try to be the iconoclastic genius and be a 10-10-13 guy (not that that happened, but I think that was his dream, to be 'first since the Big O' to average a triple double).

Most of the Mavs quotes are emphasizing his ability on D, with good reason, and I'm sure he has enough to prove that he'll put in the effort there. If he doesn't that next contract's not going to be what he's hoping. I'm just glad to be able to stop thinking about his idiosyncracies now.

Agree with all EXCEPT that he never has had & never will have the offensive ability to be a 16-5-9 guy during the RS, 16 being the key number. His career-long offensive liabilities have always been & will always be too significant - excepting several magical PO series for which I am grateful.

Danny did him a huge favor & put him on the right team - at least in the short term. He now once again has the opportunity to play to his strengths - superior distributing to stud scorers, playing harassing D with his ginormously long arms & gigantic hands, & rebounding exceptionally well for his height.
I wish him success!

Master's or PhD?

Rondo averaged over 16 ppg 6 reb and 10 asts in the 66 playoff games he played in AFTER the title year...far more than "a few" playoff series.

Rondo's issue was always his reluctance to score, not ability

[Slartibartfast]

QB comparisons for Rondo are the problem. Rondo didn't understand that the Celtics wanted a basketball player - not a guy whose only job is to set people up. Brad Stevens like almost all modern coaches wants 5 guys that can shoot, pass and drive. And on the defensive end they need to be able to D up guys. Rondo should be able to drive - but isn't and he can't really shoot by NBA standards. And his defense has been poor - unless you shop around for some broken statistic that makes it look good.

Its not 'shocking' that the team has played better without him the past couple of years. Older players like Pierce and KG might sometimes appreciate the burden that Rondo takes off their ball handling duties but guys like Sully, KO, Green, even AB want to handle the ball. AB had 7 assists last night.

Privately I'd wager that Stevens is thrilled about this deal. He has guys who will listen to him. Despite protests to the contrary does anyone here outside of the usual suspects think Rondo was running the motion offense?

What exactly were we running in the Magic game? I think Rondo bought in fine to the system - it was his frequent inability/unwillingness to score that would muck things up.

But as we will soon see, the replacement guards will soon be mucking things up in their own way once the competition stiffens and the entire game isn't one big transition sequence.

I actually agree that things will bog down in the halfcourt more now. But I think that's the trick about Rondo... he always makes the offensive appear as if it's operating more smoothly and efficiently than it actually is because of how crisp his ball handling, passing, and pick and roll/pop execution is.

When you take him out of the picture, ultimately you're still getting the same mediocre looks from mid-range and three that Rondo produces... it's just less pretty to watch.

The offensive efficiency stats for the team generally reflect this reality. He doesn't make offenses more effective or efficient but there is a veneer that makes it look like he does.

Ainge's recent comments about finding a star that helps you win vs. a star that fans like to watch seems to echo that reality. Rondo is a fan favorite because of how creative and artistic he is... Smart, Turner, Bradley aren't artists but they can do things for you that help you win ball games.

Not really. Rondo can and has done more things to help win ball games than Smart/Turner/Bradley ever have done.

Just because he wasn't working with this team and has struggled post ACL doesn't mean that he is or was not a guy that can help you win games more than rookies and back-up grade guys like Turner and AB.

Rondo wasn't just a fan favorite. He was a legit top 5 point guard for an extended stretch. Maybe that player's gone forever, but let's not let a rough finish and retconning diminish an otherwise stellar legacy.

[exculpatory]

Pete and Humblebum are saying what I didn't articulate as well last night. And if I put on my psychologist hat I'd propose that Rondo's been overcompensating for his obvious scoring deficiency by trying to put APG through the roof for years now. It worried me when it started ('most assists through the first 10 games of the season' stat-tracking, that 'most games with 10+ assists' stuff, until the last days we had arguments about how meaningful leading the league in triple doubles with 10-12-10 games in losses really was, etc.) and over the last three years turned one of my favorite Celtics into someone I was ready to move on from. Ironically, it didn't have to be that way - if he weren't so stubborn, he could just keep shooting his floater and jumper and suck it up and be a 16-5-9 guy. But he had to try to be the iconoclastic genius and be a 10-10-13 guy (not that that happened, but I think that was his dream, to be 'first since the Big O' to average a triple double).

Most of the Mavs quotes are emphasizing his ability on D, with good reason, and I'm sure he has enough to prove that he'll put in the effort there. If he doesn't that next contract's not going to be what he's hoping. I'm just glad to be able to stop thinking about his idiosyncracies now.

Agree with all EXCEPT that he never has had & never will have the offensive ability to be a 16-5-9 guy during the RS, 16 being the key number. His career-long offensive liabilities have always been & will always be too significant - excepting several magical PO series for which I am grateful.

Danny did him a huge favor & put him on the right team - at least in the short term. He now once again has the opportunity to play to his strengths - superior distributing to stud scorers, playing harassing D with his ginormously long arms & gigantic hands, & rebounding exceptionally well for his height.
I wish him success!

Master's or PhD?

Rondo averaged over 16 ppg 6 reb and 10 asts in the 66 playoff games he played in AFTER the title year...far more than "a few" playoff series.

Rondo's issue was always his reluctance to score, not ability

Thanks for the info.

And 14.5 ppg 6 reb and 9 asts in 92 PO games for his career better than I realized also....suggests reluctance.

And during his 8 1/3 regular seasons: 11 ppg 4.7 reb & 8.5 asts in 527 games suggests inability.

[BfB]

Agree with all EXCEPT that he never has had & never will have the offensive ability to be a 16-5-9 guy during the RS, 16 being the key number. His career-long offensive liabilities have always been & will always be too significant - excepting several magical PO series for which I am grateful.

Danny did him a huge favor & put him on the right team - at least in the short term. He now once again has the opportunity to play to his strengths - superior distributing to stud scorers, playing harassing D with his ginormously long arms & gigantic hands, & rebounding exceptionally well for his height.
I wish him success!

Master's or PhD?

Rondo averaged over 16 ppg 6 reb and 10 asts in the 66 playoff games he played in AFTER the title year...far more than "a few" playoff series.

Rondo's issue was always his reluctance to score, not ability

Thanks for the info.

And 14.5 ppg 6 reb and 9 asts in 92 PO games for his career better than I realized also....suggests reluctance.

And during his 8 1/3 regular seasons: 11 ppg 4.7 reb & 8.5 asts in 527 games suggests inability.

Yaa...I thought we were having an actual conversation...alas, I see you are content to be a bias bash-festist. Rondo scored when he felt like stepping up and scoring, was totally fine taking 3 shots on other nights and letting his teammates do the heavy lifting.

It was his aprehension when it came to cranking up attempts that has always limited him offensively, many atteibute this to his FT whoas which make him shy away from finishing drives. His jumper from mid range has consistently been more efficient than the volume of shots he limited himself to.

Rondo is an elite comimentary player who failed in his cameo as a franchise player this year. Making him out to be less than what he is - a great PG who has a shot at some all time numbers in WINNING situations is agenda driven nonsense. His body of work will ultimately speak for itself. It's ashame so many here feel the need to reduce him to JAG status for no aparent reason.

I can accept him not being a franchise player while still recognizing his All Star production and ability to compete at a superstar level in the biggest moments. He didn't have what this team needed from him this year, so be it.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Re: the picks, I'm cautiously optimistic that LAC or DAL slips out of the playoffs- the Clippers especially. Dallas would take an injury to a key player, and it's hard to root for that..

Green to NOP, Ryan Anderson to SAC, Mclemore/Landry to BOS would help two western playoff teams get better.

[Froob]

Why didn't Rondo get traded to the Lakers? I'm glad he didn't because I wouldn't be able to handle him in LA but LA's pick would seem to be much more valuable than Dallas' unless it was far in the future or something or perhaps Ainge is really big on Wright.

[Froob]

Sucks we got a crappy old version of Jameer Nelson. I would have loved to have him a few years back. Hopefully we can buy him out or something. Don't really want that contract this off season.

[Andrew McCeltic]

LA's pick this year is in Phoenix, top 5 protected.

[Andrew McCeltic]

And it sounds like SAC is offering Collison, Derrick Williams and Jason Thompson for Deron Williams. So Mclemore and a 1st aren't in that package- and they think it's worth paying for Deron but not Rondo. Shows the market. Unfortunate..

[Froob]

And it sounds like SAC is offering Collison, Derrick Williams and Jason Thompson for Deron Williams. So Mclemore and a 1st aren't in that package- and they think it's worth paying for Deron but not Rondo. Shows the market. Unfortunate..

lolwut, why would anyone want D-Will? Hopefully he can cause Boogie to want out. I'd give up the farm for Boogie. He's so KG like in personality I'd go nuts if we got him. That and wrestle IT away from Phoenix.

[FlatearthZorro]

Why didn't Rondo get traded to the Lakers? I'm glad he didn't because I wouldn't be able to handle him in LA but LA's pick would seem to be much more valuable than Dallas' unless it was far in the future or something or perhaps Ainge is really big on Wright.

That LAL pick had a huge protection in the next 2 years for sure. I can bet my head on that... Plus Kupchak was literally disrespecting Ainge with that Hill+pick for Rondo + Green..

[FeedReed]

man the reception for this on league pass is awful.

[Froob]

Why didn't Rondo get traded to the Lakers? I'm glad he didn't because I wouldn't be able to handle him in LA but LA's pick would seem to be much more valuable than Dallas' unless it was far in the future or something or perhaps Ainge is really big on Wright.

That LAL pick had a huge protection in the next 2 years for sure. I can bet my head on that... Plus Kupchak was literally disrespecting Ainge with that Hill+pick for Rondo + Green..

Honestly, I'm surprised most GMs haven't blocked Kupchak's number. Good things rarely happen dealing with him.

[irie]

And it sounds like SAC is offering Collison, Derrick Williams and Jason Thompson for Deron Williams. So Mclemore and a 1st aren't in that package- and they think it's worth paying for Deron but not Rondo. Shows the market. Unfortunate..

At this point, I doubt that McLemore + a first (turned into Levine) was ever really available. Woj reported that the Kings offered McLemore for the Celtics lotto pick (Smart). So there's no way that deal was ever real if they valued McLemore that highly. Probably something Ainge's group leaked out to try to make it seem like teams were going to offer up anything substantial for Rondo.

[Andrew McCeltic]

That rumor means a lot for our Brooklyn picks, too.. They can turn themselves into a nice, lean team pretty quickly.. Just need to find a taker for Brook Lopez.