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Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks.

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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#821 » by sam_I_am » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:05 am

exculpatory wrote:
BfB wrote:
exculpatory wrote:
Agree with all EXCEPT that he never has had & never will have the offensive ability to be a 16-5-9 guy during the RS, 16 being the key number. His career-long offensive liabilities have always been & will always be too significant - excepting several magical PO series for which I am grateful.

Danny did him a huge favor & put him on the right team - at least in the short term. He now once again has the opportunity to play to his strengths - superior distributing to stud scorers, playing harassing D with his ginormously long arms & gigantic hands, & rebounding exceptionally well for his height.
I wish him success!

Master's or PhD?


Rondo averaged over 16 ppg 6 reb and 10 asts in the 66 playoff games he played in AFTER the title year...far more than "a few" playoff series.

Rondo's issue was always his reluctance to score, not ability


Thanks for the info.

And 14.5 ppg 6 reb and 9 asts in 92 PO games for his career better than I realized also....suggests reluctance.

And during his 8 1/3 regular seasons: 11 ppg 4.7 reb & 8.5 asts in 527 games suggests inability.


I think it suggests that he was smart enough to see Paul, KG and Ray next to him. Something guys like Kyrie and Westbrook can never do. His failure as a franchise guy has everything to do with ACL tear. Prior to injury he was an elite athlete - a gazelle. Now he is a heady player with great skill but the fifth gear that made him special in playoffs is still missing.

We hàve discussed over the years how Rondo would likely flame out by age 31 because he was so speed dependent. I now think he can be the player he is now unhip age 37 - a floor general, an exciting passer and a plus rebounder. But the days of jaw dropping athleticism - crazy steals, 1 on 5 fast break layups, harassing the Lebron's and Kobe's of the league - those days might be over. Still too early to write him off - hasn't played 82 games since injury - but the dropoff is still huge.

I take issue with those that won't credit him for what he once did. The guy that carried a KG-less team to 3-2 lead over Orlando and a post Ray team to 3-2 lead over Mega star Heat was a stud.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#822 » by 31to6 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:17 am

exculpatory wrote:Master's or PhD?


Lol masters in a very different realm of biology. My 'psychologist hat' is for armchair sports-analysis only :)

But it says Paul's got a winner's mentality so it must be accurate!
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#823 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:01 am

andy582 wrote:That rumor means a lot for our Brooklyn picks, too.. They can turn themselves into a nice, lean team pretty quickly.. Just need to find a taker for Brook Lopez.


I just hope it doesn't turn the Nets into the Raptors last year after they let go of Rudy Gay. Getting role players actually made them better. Collison is pretty good when he has the playing time. Thompson is decent. And you just never know with Williams.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#824 » by GreenBloodedC » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:04 am

Rondo's having his typical game. I'm glad my Fantasy team would not be affected much by the trade :) Glad to see Rondo producing well.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#825 » by tfmiii » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:32 am

LongTimeFan wrote:I lived through the dynasty teams. Chamberlain, West and Baylor (three of the best in the league) in their prime could not beat a bunch of washed up wannabes. It is absolutely clear to me after last night's game and DA's recent comments that we are pursuing a dynasty type team.

First the win. We broke their will in the fourth. Heinsohn pointed it out. They gave up and the ball started to always bounce our way. It was late in the game and they are a weak team, but nonetheless we did break their will. Our young team wrote this story and saw it for themselves. It has begun. As our players' experience with this team attack increases, we'll see this happen earlier and earlier in the game against stronger and stronger teams. Everyone will hate us for this. So be it.

great post LTF,

I noticed that the Twolves 'broke' in the 4th last night as well.

Granted, they are the Twolves, but the strategy was as you described: come at them in waves, run, push tempo, and eventually they will run out of gas. fatigue is the enemy of courage

Gotta walk before you run, so i will not 'discount' this game just because it was against the twolves. The more chances the Cs get to positively reinforce this new strategy, the better regardless of the quality of the opponent. And as they get more confident and buy into the strategy the better they will get and the as you state it will work against stronger and stronger teams. This is something to be excited about, not just the growth of the players but the growth of the team as a cohesive unit buying into the new philosophy.

Speaking more generally about the events of the last 48 hours, I have to admit at first i thought it was just another case of DA establishing value. But it soon (very soon given how quickly this escalated) acquired a different feel. by the time reports that Rondo would be 'open' to resigning with a Texas team this began to feel like a very different situation. I began to prepare myself for Rondo's departure.

I have very mixed feelings.

I am sad and nostalgic over the end of the era, the last tie to the magnificent 2008 team. Rondo was one of my favorite players, not just for his transcendent play when the chips were on the table, but also for his contrarian nature and sheer toughness.

I will miss Rondo, a player who excelled at what I've always thought was the most beautiful aspect of basketball, passing. That is what I always felt set Bird and Magic above players like an MJ or Duncan, players who may be just as valuable to their team but not the catalysts the former two were.

Although I count myself as a Rondo 'supporter' who was excited to see what he could do when this was 'his team' I have to confess that i agree it just has not worked out. Even prior to his injury, when he was clearly the leader of the 'big 4' the team was just too inconsistent. For a long time I felt this was partially due to Doc's inability to evolve and adjust, to tension between he 'old guard' and the 'new guard'

Those factors may well still have contributed, but i have already come to the conclusion that Rondo also shouldered a large part of the responsibility for this as well. Part of it is his apparent unwillingness to score as well as the perceived consistency of his effort from night to night, but the key part may well be his instincts with regard to how the game 'should' be played (more on that below)

While Rondo's skill set is supremely adapted to the kind of team ball that Heinsohn has always advocated and that Stevens and Ainge have now seem to have adopted (and Ainge's comments earlier in the week about a winning team regardless of 'stars' is a key indicator in this regard) Rondo's approach to the game would seem to actually work against him realizing his talents in such a system.

Rondo seems instinctually wedded to the 'star' approach to basketball - limiting pace, conserving energy, working the clock for the 'best' shot - a valid approach, one that the 2008 team perfected, but one that is philosophically at odds at what we are now trying to do. This is not to say that Rondo did not try to adapt, but watching him play under Stevens was at times (usually the 4th quarter) like reading a classic piece of foreign literature in a journeyman translation. The effort was there but the flow was not, the old instincts die hard. (whoever compared this to the first Antoine trade may have captured a large part of the truth, moving a talented player whose personality and playing style had too much of a 'grip' on the team, whether consciously or not...)

And finally there was the issue of the regression regarding free throws and trips to the line. Personally, for me, I don't care what your position, this is something that is an intrinsic flaw. I won't go any further into it other than to mention it in passing as a source of disappointment.

So, to sum up, I view this as a win for Rondo, a win for Dallas and potentially a win for the Celts as well. As Ainge has said only the future can tell (for both the Mavs and the Celts) but I do not anticipate that we are about to see a philly-style tear down.

I expect they will continue to try and compete to win and possibly make the playoffs. This does not mean they won't be future trades (uncle Jeff is a prime candidate) but I don't expect them to be made with the aim of limiting our ability to compete, but rather to enhance our ability to compete as a team withing what LTF is calling the 'dynasty' concept: building a deep, talented team of players who may be underrated (and hence available) and who excel in multiple aspects of the game. The results should exceed the sum of the parts.

So I am sad to lose one of the supreme competitors in the game, a player who could be electrifying, disruptive, creative and dynamic, outplaying LBJ in multiple key contests. But i am excited to see what this team can do now that they seem to have committed to recreating the philosophy and style of play that was responsible for our team's most convincing decade of dominance. As in any venture a dose of luck would not be amiss (and Ainge is nothing if not opportunistic), but i do believe that there is more going on than may immediately meet the eye. It may not have been LBF's 'plan A' or possibly even 'B', but there is a plan and a method at work.

I am also excited to continue to watch Olynyk, Sully, Bradley, Smart (who may not look it, but could be the closest thing to DJ we have seen in quite a while, clutch gene and all) and eventually Young develop. But most of all I am excited to see them develop within a system that promises to be both a bit of a 'throw back' and an extreme outlier in today's 'star-centric' NBA 8-)
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#826 » by sully00 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:40 am

andy582 wrote:That rumor means a lot for our Brooklyn picks, too.. They can turn themselves into a nice, lean team pretty quickly.. Just need to find a taker for Brook Lopez.


But they are getting 3 bench players for their best player. Without a draft pick that deal is devastating.

When you think that they gave up
Favors, Kanter, and Gorgiu Dieng for Williams
Lillard for Wallace
Then the picks they have sent Boston man that is brutal.

If I was Silver I might think about getting involved here I would not let them liquidate that team without getting some picks back.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#827 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:53 am

Yeah, the long-term math is abysmal. They should be getting Mclemore and a 1st.. Instead, they're haggling over whether to include Plumlee. Suggests they got a directive from ownership to cut salary. At least Prokhorov is backing off his previous insanity- but they have no way to get good again except to clear the books and then overpay for new free agents...
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#828 » by Banks2Pierce » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:00 am

31to6 wrote:
But it says Paul's got a winner's mentality so it must be accurate!


Paul and Rajon have the same braintype. Try that on for size, exculp. ;)
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#829 » by GuyClinch » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:02 am

While Rondo's skill set is supremely adapted to the kind of team ball that Heinsohn has always advocated and that Stevens and Ainge have now seem to have adopted (and Ainge's comments earlier in the week about a winning team regardless of 'stars' is a key indicator in this regard) Rondo's approach to the game would seem to actually work against him realizing his talents in such a system.


Rondo does utilize his talents - just not always for winning basketball. He is known to be very interested in stats - and has a stat guy on his 'team'. Rondo's ball domination increases his assist numbers. This league has long suffered from star PG playing this 'way'.

Coaches from Doc Rivers to George Karl to Brad Stevens have been trying to 'break' these PG's for decades now. Karl famously just lost it and yelled at his team about how basketball is supposed to be played - you are supposed to shoot, pass or drive within seconds of getting the ball. Heck even HS teams will run fast breaks drills where no one dribbles..
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#830 » by 31to6 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:02 am

Inconceivable, Banks2Pierce. Is that the 'human' brain type??

Watched the 2nd half of Rondo's debut tonight. Very Rondo performance. Fun team; hope it goes well for him there.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#831 » by jordb2k7 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:13 am

andy582 wrote:Yeah, the long-term math is abysmal. They should be getting Mclemore and a 1st.. Instead, they're haggling over whether to include Plumlee. Suggests they got a directive from ownership to cut salary. At least Prokhorov is backing off his previous insanity- but they have no way to get good again except to clear the books and then overpay for new free agents...


Agreed but many other teams are going after cap space now, it's going to be much harder to win that game than it used to be. I really think they are in a lot of trouble and I don't see how they get out of it. They took their BEST SHOT last year and look where they are now. They are going to require some major luck which I hope they don't get until after 2018 8-)
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#832 » by 31to6 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:21 am

the discussion's drifting OT here but my hope has long been that no one takes DWill's declining game, ankles, or salary off of the Nets' hands.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#833 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:48 am

tfmiii wrote:
but i have already come to the conclusion that Rondo also shouldered a large part of the responsibility for this as well. Part of it is his apparent unwillingness to score as well as the perceived consistency of his effort from night to night, but the key part may well be his instincts with regard to how the game 'should' be played (more on that below)

While Rondo's skill set is supremely adapted to the kind of team ball that Heinsohn has always advocated and that Stevens and Ainge have now seem to have adopted (and Ainge's comments earlier in the week about a winning team regardless of 'stars' is a key indicator in this regard) Rondo's approach to the game would seem to actually work against him realizing his talents in such a system.

Rondo seems instinctually wedded to the 'star' approach to basketball - limiting pace, conserving energy, working the clock for the 'best' shot - a valid approach, one that the 2008 team perfected, but one that is philosophically at odds at what we are now trying to do. This is not to say that Rondo did not try to adapt, but watching him play under Stevens was at times (usually the 4th quarter) like reading a classic piece of foreign literature in a journeyman translation. The effort was there but the flow was not, the old instincts die hard. (whoever compared this to the first Antoine trade may have captured a large part of the truth, moving a talented player whose personality and playing style had too much of a 'grip' on the team, whether consciously or not...)

And finally there was the issue of the regression regarding free throws and trips to the line. Personally, for me, I don't care what your position, this is something that is an intrinsic flaw. I won't go any further into it other than to mention it in passing as a source of disappointment.


Very interesting analysis. I'd like to add one more possibility -- perhaps Rondo isn't really a quick decision-maker on the court. He's brilliant -- perhaps the best ever -- at seeing what will happen seconds before it does, and making the perfect pass accordingly. But perhaps he isn't so good at playing more reactively.
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Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#834 » by exculpatory » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:09 am

BfB wrote:
exculpatory wrote:
BfB wrote:
Rondo averaged over 16 ppg 6 reb and 10 asts in the 66 playoff games he played in AFTER the title year...far more than "a few" playoff series.

Rondo's issue was always his reluctance to score, not ability.


Thanks for the info.

And 14.5 ppg 6 reb and 9 asts in 92 PO games for his career better than I realized also = suggests reluctance.

And during his 8 1/3 regular seasons: 11 ppg 4.7 reb & 8.5 asts in 527 games = suggests inability.


1. I thought we were having an actual conversation...alas, I see you are content to be a biasED bash-festist.

2. Rondo scored when he felt like stepping up and scoring, was totally fine taking 3 shots on other nights and letting his teammates do the heavy lifting.



1. All I did was quote a small part of his very mediocre career line - with nary a word of commentary. That does not qualify as "biasED (with an "ed") bash festing."

2. I absolutely & completely do NOT agree - especially with regard to the regular season. During his 8 1/3 regular seasons as a Celtic, Rondo sure as hell "did NOT score whenever he felt like stepping up." Speaking of "agenda-driven nonsense", Eric, that statement is "Rondohype"/utter nonsense. He has ALWAYS been awful from 3. He has ALWAYS been a terrible FT shooter - & currently is bad beyond human comprehension. As a result, he has not been a consistent driver because he is afraid of embarrassing himself at the FT line. He did have several years where he hit the elbow jumper somewhat efficiently (usually when totally unguarded & his defender was double teaming or shading toward Paul/Ray/KG & daring him to shoot). Rondo's fatal offensive liabilities go WAY WAY WAY beyond his definite reluctance to shoot - he fundamentally sucked & still sucks as a shooter & a scorer. Fortunately for the Celtics, he (inexplicably) WAS able to score more during the POs.

That does not mean he was a JAG. Surrounded by Super Star studs, he proved himself to be a uniquely talented, non-scoring distributor. Danny has given him a chance to do the same thing for Dirk, Monte, Chandler & Chandler etc.

Tonight, Mavs beat the Spurs "minor league team" by 6. Monte went off for 38. Rondo with a typical Rondo line: 6 points on sharpshooter 3-11 shooting, but 9As & 7Rs & 2 steals.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#835 » by zronv7 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:46 am

Love it, good job danny
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#836 » by Maple Green » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:31 am

It is a mixed feeling too....What I am observed his last 5 games with Celtics there is no fire and willingness on the side of Rondo considering he is the captain (to lead the team). I am not bitter but it is better decision for DA so everybody can move on. Rondo's talent is rare in 30 NBA teams there are only few guard who can pass first guard. But no regret to trade him...
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#837 » by bballcool34 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:23 am

sam_I_am wrote:I think it suggests that he was smart enough to see Paul, KG and Ray next to him. Something guys like Kyrie and Westbrook can never do.


It would be foolish for someone like Westbrook to defer given how good he is, he's pure alpha dog on the court the way most great players/scorers are---Pierce included. Ultimately, yeah maybe at times he should have passed to Durant a little more but what makes Westbrook so good beyond his spectacular physical skills is his confidence and if that comes with shooting a little too much sometimes, then that's a good problem to have... I wish Rondo still possessed that in his last days in Boston---hopefully he can get his mojo back in Dallas.

I think this post just irked me a bit because at this point Westbrook is so far and away better than Rondo that comparing the two in any capacity is just silly, it's like comparing prime Pierce to Caron Butler and saying it's a good thing Butler didn't shoot as much.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#838 » by bac0nologist » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:16 am

Rondo is the reason why I started watching Celtics, and also basketball in general. Back in 2008, I don't give a damn and do not have a specific team to root for in NBA.

His tenacity and overall hustle back in 08 made me join the Celtics 'bandwagon' before and never left no matter how bad the team was.

Will I miss Rondo? That's for sure. Its so hard to watch him playing earlier in Mavs jersey but I love the Cs community more than the guy. I'll continue to root for the guy, but if by chance we play against him in playoffs (who knows, right?) I'll be on the green side cheering for whoever we have on the roster.

I'll miss the hustle and all the good and fun Rondo have been doing on the court, but I'll be a Cs fan regardless.

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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#839 » by ermocrate » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:17 am

Goodbye Rajon and thanks for the memories...
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#840 » by giambijuice » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:59 pm

humblebum wrote:Jae Crowder look like he was like "f this, I'ma smoke an L before this presser." LMAO



an L ? i thought it was a J.

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