2020 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 -- (8PM, Wed, Nov. 18, ESPN)

[Squigglepuffin]

What am I missing with Okungwu for him to be a top prospect?

He has absolutely zero jump shot and only scores in the paint. Great defender and very agile. Good rebounder. But is the lack of an offensive game not a concern for you all when watching him?

Lotta indicators on his jumper— 41.5% on two pt jumpers per hoop math, 72.6% at the rim showing he has touch. 72% FTs showing he has potential to stretch.

Its not there now, but should come in time. He’s pretty similar to Wendell Carter Jr, where he has some interesting tools. The hope is that OO could actualize them if in a good environment, something WCJ wasnt afforded.

OO is also much stronger than Robert Williams.

[winsomme2]

What am I missing with Okungwu for him to be a top prospect?

He has absolutely zero jump shot and only scores in the paint. Great defender and very agile. Good rebounder. But is the lack of an offensive game not a concern for you all when watching him?

Lotta indicators on his jumper— 41.5% on two pt jumpers per hoop math, 72.6% at the rim showing he has touch. 72% FTs showing he has potential to stretch.

Its not there now, but should come in time. He’s pretty similar to Wendell Carter Jr, where he has some interesting tools. The hope is that OO could actualize them if in a good environment, something WCJ wasnt afforded.

OO is also much stronger than Robert Williams.

I don't think trading up for Okongwu is good value.

I'd rather keep 26 and take achiuwa at 14

Or keep 14 and take stewart at 26.

I actually straight up like achiuwa better as a prospect.much wider base and explosiveness

[Soxin7]

If we trade up I want Haliburton but only if we can keep #26 or #30 to grab a......Reed, Oturo, Stewart or Nnaji. If we could pull that off I think it checks off a lot of boxes.

[ConstableGeneva]

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[threrf23]

He is a freak athlete, he can gaurd centers and switch onto PG's that is really rare. He also has a nice stroke, shot 74% from the free throw line.
He has things you can't teach, his worst case scenario is a montrazell Harell with better defense. If he develps a better jumper he is the player Myles Turner was supposed to be. Right now its not there but everything else is. Bam is a bad comparison, he is not a great passer like Bam, he does not drive as well. He is a better defender.

EDIT - you were talking Okongwu. I saw 'Montrezl Harell with better defense' and assumed Paul Reed. So, regarding Paul Reed...

It's not that rare that a big man is supposed to be the next all time defensive great modern switchable big - i.e. WCS and Dragan Bender.

Kenneth Faried with a jump shot is another possibility. From what I've read tho (and to a lesser extent seen), he seems to share some parallels with Pascal Siakam - unfortunately, part of that equation is he likes to iso and he plays like he can score on anyone regardless of whether he can.

That ego worries me a little bit, but could also drive him to work as hard as Siakam did out of college. His status as a late bloomer worries me a little bit b/c he wasn't a known prospect out of HS, was very foul prone in a low minute role as a freshman. Siakam if I'm not mistaken was training to become a priest before someone spotted him and turned him on to basketball as a teenager. Reed likely lacked commitment for other reasons, and if he lacked commitment then he could lack commitment whenever he gets paid.

Christian Wood might be the lower end comparison - and that includes the possibility that he he gets cut and returns after a few years to earn a contract. Still strikes me as a very nice pick outside of the lottery.

Also, I disagree that Bam is a bad comp for Okongwu. He drives better than Bam did at Kentucky (or comparably), he has IQ and instincts, and I've read scouting capsules which say he is an underrated passer with decent vision. If anything, I think a Bam comp might be selling Okongwu short a bit.

[threrf23]

He is his own player, has his own game, but the story of his career regarding the draft is just going to be similar to players like Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Pascal Siakam, etc... but even if he doesn't get to their level (and to be clear I'm saying he can end up a borderline all-star) he has at worst imo a floor of Marcus Smart - he's a top seven prospect in this draft and has no reason to last past the top 10 picks.

Is he in the draft?

A quick glance at his stats and scouting capsules and I agree he is likely slept on. Though on paper he seems more DeAnthony Melton than Marcus Smart.

[Dogen]

If that deal where 14 and 26 or 30 gets us OO, and another deal for the other pick + assets get us Maxey, O will be very happy indeed.

[Darth Celtic]

Looks like we keep interviewing guys in that 40-60 range for prospects. Really trying with that 47th pick.

[Spin Move]

Nate Hinton will end up being one of the top seven players in this draft.

I know it's controversial but I absolutely stand by it. Come back in four years time and laugh at me if I'm wrong, but unless he gets injured I don't think I will be.

From what I have seen he is currently ranked as a second round prospect. He shouldn't be. He's a top ten prospect, and in four years time, unless he gets injured I'm pretty confident it will be blatantly obvious.

To be clear: Nate Hinton will be better than Ball, Toppin, most likely Okoro (I'm assuming he doesn't become a good shooter), Deni, Vassell, Haliburton, Bey, and a bunch of others. I personally would choose him over Patrick Williams and Aaron Nesmith simply because with him I know what I'm getting and it's much less of a gamble. Top seven player from this draft in any case no question.

He will end up being the steal of the draft. He's basically going to be that guy who was picked in the late first or somewhere in the second who ends up becoming at the very least a borderline all-star.

He is his own player, has his own game, but the story of his career regarding the draft is just going to be similar to players like Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Pascal Siakam, etc... but even if he doesn't get to their level (and to be clear I'm saying he can end up a borderline all-star) he has at worst imo a floor of Marcus Smart - he's a top seven prospect in this draft and has no reason to last past the top 10 picks.

I expect everyone to laugh at me saying all of this because no one else in the basketball world seems to realize how good he is but I'm absolutely willing to go on record before the draft saying this. Wait until the end of his rookie contract to judge whether I'm right or wrong. I wouldn't be so insistent unless I was absolutely 200% convinced without a shadow of a doubt.

Watch on YouTube

His stats do not look like anything special the rebounding looks nice but a gaurd shooting 76% from the line is nothing special and that is a better indicator of NBA 3 success then NCAA 3%. He is already 21 6'5 with a 6'9 wingspan is decent size for a 2 gaurd.Only shot 41% overall and only 2 assists a game. I don't see it. He is 46th in nbadraft.net mock right now, so maybe as a flyer at 47? I did not see him play last season but looking at the evaluations I don't think he will be one of the top 7 wings in this draft.

[BostonCouchGM]

Nate Hinton will end up being one of the top seven players in this draft.

I know it's controversial but I absolutely stand by it. Come back in four years time and laugh at me if I'm wrong, but unless he gets injured I don't think I will be.

From what I have seen he is currently ranked as a second round prospect. He shouldn't be. He's a top ten prospect, and in four years time, unless he gets injured I'm pretty confident it will be blatantly obvious.

To be clear: Nate Hinton will be better than Ball, Toppin, most likely Okoro (I'm assuming he doesn't become a good shooter), Deni, Vassell, Haliburton, Bey, and a bunch of others. I personally would choose him over Patrick Williams and Aaron Nesmith simply because with him I know what I'm getting and it's much less of a gamble. Top seven player from this draft in any case no question.

He will end up being the steal of the draft. He's basically going to be that guy who was picked in the late first or somewhere in the second who ends up becoming at the very least a borderline all-star.

He is his own player, has his own game, but the story of his career regarding the draft is just going to be similar to players like Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Pascal Siakam, etc... but even if he doesn't get to their level (and to be clear I'm saying he can end up a borderline all-star) he has at worst imo a floor of Marcus Smart - he's a top seven prospect in this draft and has no reason to last past the top 10 picks.

I expect everyone to laugh at me saying all of this because no one else in the basketball world seems to realize how good he is but I'm absolutely willing to go on record before the draft saying this. Wait until the end of his rookie contract to judge whether I'm right or wrong. I wouldn't be so insistent unless I was absolutely 200% convinced without a shadow of a doubt.

Watch on YouTube

I feel similarly passionate about a few guys I feel nobody is paying attention so I know where you're coming from. What has kept Hinton in the 2nd round (could change as we get measurements, times, etc) for me is that I really don't think he's 6'5 and he's not a high level athlete plus he's already 21 y/o. He seems crafty but then his athleticism lets him down and doesn't allow his body to keep up with where his mind is going. His handle isn't crisp enough. And while this played okay in college he's going to be going up against the Jaylen's of the world and will get swallowed up. He should be a great glue guy, even if he doesn't improve and the type you want at the end of the bench, like a Wanamaker. High motor, elite BBIQ on defense, nice jumper and great makeup. And maybe the handle gets tighter and maybe he hits the sauce and improves athletically. So there IS upside. Bu I really don't see him being a top 20 guy unless I'm dead wrong about his height, length, and athleticism and he's tightened up his handle. Then again, we did have a long layoff so he might have or is in the process of doing these things. But other players are also working on their weaknesses as well so it's all relative. He's been one of a handful of guys I envision moving up my Board though

[threrf23]

His stats do not look like anything special the rebounding looks nice but a gaurd shooting 76% from the line is nothing special and that is a better indicator of NBA 3 success then NCAA 3%.

Rebounding though tends to be a measure of instincts/intangibles/motor/focus/fundamentals. It denotes upside in all areas. Steals and foul efficiency can also speak to instincts and he gets a passing grade there.

I would debate the importance of FT% (and even 3 pt %) except where extremes are met, but he shot 86% from the line as a freshman, 80% over two years, which puts him above Steve Kerr and Ray Allen at the same age.

Statically, the main area for concern is that he shoots 44% on low volume inside the arc, and additionally does not grt to the line much. If he can't assert himself as a scorer inside the arc in college...idk, but this is something that makes him comparable to DeAnthony Melton on paper, though Melton shot a higher percentage inside the arc.

[Darth Celtic]

Ok, i have no inside knowledge of prospects. Never watched a single game in NCAA or high school in like 3 years. I've never said to be a draft expert. What I have seen, is so, so, so many people on this site this last decade claiming to be.

It comes into 2 categories. The ones who claim some dude you never heard of is going to be so great and you need to find a way to get them. I think maybe 3 out of 1000 of those over the last decade have come true. I could write random names on a dart board and throw darts at a higher % than that. You don't get paid to be an NBA scout. Watching some college guy against other college guys and looking at college stats, then looking at combine measure numbers doesn't make you qualified over team reps who are paid 6 digits or more to do it as their job.

The second one is the guys who wait for 6 months to 4 years after the draft and say who you would have drafted instead.... Ok, anyone can pull up draft history and see who ended up being better after our picks.

The draft is not 100%, players don't always develop like you thought, nobody gets it right all the time. I usually take a good consensus mock from all draft expert sites, look at who is available around our picks, what position they play, and how old they are and make up a wish list of players I hope for. I'm rarely right with that Danny does though. I wanted to keep the 1st pick and take fultz. Just before the draft i came to the conclusion I suck at this, and danny probably knows something.

[JHTruth]

Is Deni Avidja the prospect he is getting credit for? When I read about him, he sounds a lot like Omri Casspi. Physically, I think he is slightly bigger than Casspi at the same age, and slightly smaller than Saric. Statistically, he looks a lot like Omri Casspi at the same age (and against the same competition), but seems to be a better passer and at least a slightly better rebounder. Saric was a better rebounder and scorer and FT shooter, but otherwise comparable as well.

Deni will most likely bust massively as he is underperforming all previous similar players.
[url]
https://deanondraft.com/tag/deni-avdija/[/url]

[Spin Move]

Is Deni Avidja the prospect he is getting credit for? When I read about him, he sounds a lot like Omri Casspi. Physically, I think he is slightly bigger than Casspi at the same age, and slightly smaller than Saric. Statistically, he looks a lot like Omri Casspi at the same age (and against the same competition), but seems to be a better passer and at least a slightly better rebounder. Saric was a better rebounder and scorer and FT shooter, but otherwise comparable as well.

Deni will most likely bust massively as he is underperforming all previous similar players.
[url]
https://deanondraft.com/tag/deni-avdija/[/url]

If you have limited athletiscm you need to be a good shooter to make up for it, thus far he is not and his FT% does not make it look like he will become one.

[Spin Move]

His stats do not look like anything special the rebounding looks nice but a gaurd shooting 76% from the line is nothing special and that is a better indicator of NBA 3 success then NCAA 3%.

Rebounding though tends to be a measure of instincts/intangibles/motor/focus/fundamentals. It denotes upside in all areas. Steals and foul efficiency can also speak to instincts and he gets a passing grade there.

I would debate the importance of FT% (and even 3 pt %) except where extremes are met, but he shot 86% from the line as a freshman, 80% over two years, which puts him above Steve Kerr and Ray Allen at the same age.

Statically, the main area for concern is that he shoots 44% on low volume inside the arc, and additionally does not grt to the line much. If he can't assert himself as a scorer inside the arc in college...idk, but this is something that makes him comparable to DeAnthony Melton on paper, though Melton shot a higher percentage inside the arc.

Multiple scientific reviws have shown that ft% is the best indicator of future nba 3 point percentage, better then 3 point FG% or overall FG% I have posted a link to some of the articles in prior posts. College rebounding rate is also a great indicator of future rebounding success and steals and blocks tend to show overall athletiscm. Howevevr his numbers are not really elite there outside of rebounding for a SG with his lenght you would expect more blocks. Rebounding rates can be effected by who is around you and the position you are put in, see Tyler bay, or even Hayward for this. On teams without great rebounders solid rebounders can get made to look like better rebounders then they are becuase somebody has to grab the board.

Houston his team did not play anyone over 6'7 more then 15 mpg, so its a situation where he probably got a couple more rebounds a game then he really should have based on his rebounding ability. Hayward grabbed 2 more rebounds a game for us this year then his career average becuase we put him in a PF role alot, if he was playing as a gaurd he averages closer to 4 rebounds then 6.5.

[Spin Move]

His stats do not look like anything special the rebounding looks nice but a gaurd shooting 76% from the line is nothing special and that is a better indicator of NBA 3 success then NCAA 3%.

Rebounding though tends to be a measure of instincts/intangibles/motor/focus/fundamentals. It denotes upside in all areas. Steals and foul efficiency can also speak to instincts and he gets a passing grade there.

I would debate the importance of FT% (and even 3 pt %) except where extremes are met, but he shot 86% from the line as a freshman, 80% over two years, which puts him above Steve Kerr and Ray Allen at the same age.

Statically, the main area for concern is that he shoots 44% on low volume inside the arc, and additionally does not grt to the line much. If he can't assert himself as a scorer inside the arc in college...idk, but this is something that makes him comparable to DeAnthony Melton on paper, though Melton shot a higher percentage inside the arc.

Multiple scientific reviws have shown that ft% is the best indicator of future nba 3 point percentage, better then 3 point FG% or overall FG% I have posted a link to some of the articles in prior posts. College rebounding rate is also a great indicator of future rebounding success and steals and blocks tend to show overall athletiscm. Howevevr his numbers are not really elite there outside of rebounding for a SG with his lenght you would expect more blocks. Rebounding rates can be effected by who is around you and the position you are put in, see Tyler bay, or even Hayward for this. On teams without great rebounders solid rebounders can get made to look like better rebounders then they are becuase somebody has to grab the board.

Houston his team did not play anyone over 6'7 more then 15 mpg, so its a situation where he probably got a couple more rebounds a game then he really should have based on his rebounding ability. Hayward grabbed 2 more rebounds a game for us this year then his career average becuase we put him in a PF role alot, if he was playing as a gaurd he averages closer to 4 rebounds then 6.5.

[Gomes3PC]

What am I missing with Okungwu for him to be a top prospect?

He has absolutely zero jump shot and only scores in the paint. Great defender and very agile. Good rebounder. But is the lack of an offensive game not a concern for you all when watching him?

Lotta indicators on his jumper— 41.5% on two pt jumpers per hoop math, 72.6% at the rim showing he has touch. 72% FTs showing he has potential to stretch.

Its not there now, but should come in time. He’s pretty similar to Wendell Carter Jr, where he has some interesting tools. The hope is that OO could actualize them if in a good environment, something WCJ wasnt afforded.

OO is also much stronger than Robert Williams.

I don't think I see the strength thing for OO vs. Timelord. Not a lot of times Williams got pushed around. I would say OO likely though will add more to his frame over time, but is way, way less springy than Williams.

I like OO a lot though - he's a much more disciplined defender, sees the floor well like Williams does on offense, and I think his shooting form shows a lot more promise than Timelord. He's also got much better low-post moves with the ball in his hands, while Williams is the classic dive man big (which honestly may be a better fit for Stevens' offense than a post big).

[captain green]

If we trade up expect it to be for haliburton his name is circled along with Reed at the moment according to my dude only 2 circled and one name underlined twice and that name is Isaac

[TheMartian]

Anybody have more info on Sam Merrill? I'm kind of intrigued after he was projected as our pick at #47 in the mock draft below. Kid is touted as the most polished shooter in this draft, has good size at 6'5 205 lbs for a guard, has great court vision with a 2.5/1 assist to turnover ratio, with the biggest knock on him being a poor PnR defender but otherwise a decent man defender.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-lamelo-ball-jumps-up-to-no-1-selection-by-the-timberwolves-in-first-two-round-mock/



Here's his scouting video.

Watch on YouTube

I'm at least hoping this kid is on our scouting team's radar.

[captain green]

Anybody have more info on Sam Merrill? I'm kind of intrigued after he was projected as our pick at #47 in the mock draft below. Kid is touted as the most polished shooter in this draft, has good size at 6'5 205 lbs for a guard, has great court vision with a 2.5/1 assist to turnover ratio, with the biggest knock on him being a poor PnR defender but otherwise a decent man defender.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-lamelo-ball-jumps-up-to-no-1-selection-by-the-timberwolves-in-first-two-round-mock/



Here's his scouting video.

Watch on YouTube

I'm at least hoping this kid is on our scouting team's radar.

I believe we have zoomed him not a bad get with 47 is up against yurtseven and players that drop. That being said he isnt going to there at 47 he is on several teams radar.