Welcome Derrick White

[steefP2]

Celtics we’re 25-8 when Derrick white played over 30 min last year, 32-17 when he did not

As a point guard or shooting guard?

I have reservations about white at point.

he played both in those games; I don’t have a way of hand tracking how much pg he played those games but in the 1000+ possessions Derrick white played point guard the team had a net rating of 15.7 compared to a net rating of 6.7 for the whole season.


Derrick white at the 1 was excellent last season. No other way about it.

[Larry_Russell]

Celtics we’re 25-8 when Derrick white played over 30 min last year, 32-17 when he did not

As a point guard or shooting guard?

I have reservations about white at point.

he played both in those games; I don’t have a way of hand tracking how much pg he played those games but in the 1000+ possessions Derrick white played point guard the team had a net rating of 15.7 compared to a net rating of 6.7 for the whole season.


Derrick white at the 1 was excellent last season. No other way about it.

82games has derrick played 12% of the teams minutes at point guard with a net rating of 15.

Thats pretty good.


But the lineup of

White
Brown
Tatum
Horfoird
RobWilliams

only played 68 minutes, albeit to good-great success


I just am very hesitant about his fulltime point guard abilities...probably shouldnt be,...but am.

[hugepatsfan]

White/Brown/Tatum/GWilliams/Horford was our 3rd most used lineup last year. Net rating of +14.8

White/Brown/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was our 8th most used lineup and had an insane +46.9 rating

White/Hauser/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was 11th most used lineup and had a +29.3 rating

It's fair to question how it will look as the primary starting unit, but all signs point to White at PG, 2 wings, 2 bigs being a great lineup. No matter what happened with Smart/Brogdon, the data suggests it's something we should have been looking to incorporate more of anyway.

Brogdon is a better scorer than White. Smart is a better playmaker. But all signs point to White's game being the best fit for this team at PG. Maybe he's not the optimal PG among the league-wide options, but the data suggest he was/is the best option on this team and one way we could possibly improve would be to feature that more. Now we'll be forced to.

[165bows]

White/Brown/Tatum/GWilliams/Horford was our 3rd most used lineup last year. Net rating of +14.8

White/Brown/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was our 8th most used lineup and had an insane +46.9 rating

White/Hauser/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was 11th most used lineup and had a +29.3 rating

It's fair to question how it will look as the primary starting unit, but all signs point to White at PG, 2 wings, 2 bigs being a great lineup. No matter what happened with Smart/Brogdon, the data suggests it's something we should have been looking to incorporate more of anyway.

Brogdon is a better scorer than White. Smart is a better playmaker. But all signs point to White's game being the best fit for this team at PG. Maybe he's not the optimal PG among the league-wide options, but the data suggest he was/is the best option on this team and one way we could possibly improve would be to feature that more. Now we'll be forced to.

The top 5 2-man pairs on the team in +\- are all Derrick White and someone else.

[hugepatsfan]

White/Brown/Tatum/GWilliams/Horford was our 3rd most used lineup last year. Net rating of +14.8

White/Brown/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was our 8th most used lineup and had an insane +46.9 rating

White/Hauser/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was 11th most used lineup and had a +29.3 rating

It's fair to question how it will look as the primary starting unit, but all signs point to White at PG, 2 wings, 2 bigs being a great lineup. No matter what happened with Smart/Brogdon, the data suggests it's something we should have been looking to incorporate more of anyway.

Brogdon is a better scorer than White. Smart is a better playmaker. But all signs point to White's game being the best fit for this team at PG. Maybe he's not the optimal PG among the league-wide options, but the data suggest he was/is the best option on this team and one way we could possibly improve would be to feature that more. Now we'll be forced to.

The top 5 2-man pairs on the team in +\- are all Derrick White and someone else.

More evidence he's our best guard, IMO.

That doesn't specifically speak to him at PG though, which is what I was trying to get at. White/Tatum can have an amazing +/- but that doesn't speak to what's around them. I was trying to isolate it to lineups where White is the PG alongside 2 wings and 2 bigs, since based on our roster that figures to be the primary combo.

[cloverleaf]

White/Brown/Tatum/GWilliams/Horford was our 3rd most used lineup last year. Net rating of +14.8

White/Brown/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was our 8th most used lineup and had an insane +46.9 rating

White/Hauser/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was 11th most used lineup and had a +29.3 rating

It's fair to question how it will look as the primary starting unit, but all signs point to White at PG, 2 wings, 2 bigs being a great lineup. No matter what happened with Smart/Brogdon, the data suggests it's something we should have been looking to incorporate more of anyway.

Brogdon is a better scorer than White. Smart is a better playmaker. But all signs point to White's game being the best fit for this team at PG. Maybe he's not the optimal PG among the league-wide options, but the data suggest he was/is the best option on this team and one way we could possibly improve would be to feature that more. Now we'll be forced to.

The top 5 2-man pairs on the team in +\- are all Derrick White and someone else.

More evidence he's our best guard, IMO.

That doesn't specifically speak to him at PG though, which is what I was trying to get at. White/Tatum can have an amazing +/- but that doesn't speak to what's around them. I was trying to isolate it to lineups where White is the PG alongside 2 wings and 2 bigs, since based on our roster that figures to be the primary combo.

I think PP coached to be more of a pure PG and JD maturing in his play are both more natural PGs, but at least DW didn't brutally slow their O down at critical points the way JT and MS have tended to and he pretty much never makes the stupid plays with the ball in his hands that JT, MS and JB have been so prone to make.

[hugepatsfan]

The top 5 2-man pairs on the team in +\- are all Derrick White and someone else.

More evidence he's our best guard, IMO.

That doesn't specifically speak to him at PG though, which is what I was trying to get at. White/Tatum can have an amazing +/- but that doesn't speak to what's around them. I was trying to isolate it to lineups where White is the PG alongside 2 wings and 2 bigs, since based on our roster that figures to be the primary combo.

I think PP coached to be more of a pure PG and JD maturing in his play are both more natural PGs, but at least DW didn't brutally slow their O down at critical points the way JT and MS have tended to and he pretty much never makes the stupid plays with the ball in his hands that JT, MS and JB have been so prone to make.

Nothing I've seen out of Pritchard or JD imply ever being core rotation pieces Pritchard looks like a 9th/10th man type. JD has development left to go to even be that. The talent gap is so wide that it's unfathomable to me that either of them would ever be a better option to DW in any way shape or form in any role or at any position. Maybe they are "more natural PGs" but the overall ability gap seems so vast that it would never actually be preferable to play them.

[cloverleaf]

More evidence he's our best guard, IMO.

That doesn't specifically speak to him at PG though, which is what I was trying to get at. White/Tatum can have an amazing +/- but that doesn't speak to what's around them. I was trying to isolate it to lineups where White is the PG alongside 2 wings and 2 bigs, since based on our roster that figures to be the primary combo.

I think PP coached to be more of a pure PG and JD maturing in his play are both more natural PGs, but at least DW didn't brutally slow their O down at critical points the way JT and MS have tended to and he pretty much never makes the stupid plays with the ball in his hands that JT, MS and JB have been so prone to make.

Nothing I've seen out of Pritchard or JD imply ever being core rotation pieces Pritchard looks like a 9th/10th man type. JD has development left to go to even be that. The talent gap is so wide that it's unfathomable to me that either of them would ever be a better option to DW in any way shape or form in any role or at any position. Maybe they are "more natural PGs" but the overall ability gap seems so vast that it would never actually be preferable to play them.

I didn't mean to suggest they'd be better options than White. The question seemed to be how much of a real PG is he relatively.

But I am significantly higher on JD's potential and trajectory than you are, though he's still just 20yo, of course.

[zoyathedestroya]

Watch on YouTube

[CelticsPride18]

White should be paired more with Brown and the second unit. Brogs should play more with Tatum.

[tfmiii]

I dunno, I think the job of the PG is not to dominate or dribble the air out of the ball but to set pace, tempo.

White can penetrate, shoot the floater, dish the lob, kick out, and drill the 3.

He is in constant motion pushing the ball - by the pass or dribble - and the pace without getting out control or throwing hot dog behind the back passes etc.

He is a fabulous defender, one of the top take a charge guys and great weak side help - THE leading shot-blocking guard.

His on man coverage is pretty good as well and as the series progressed got pretty good on not biting on Jimmy Butler's action. He can't switch onto Giannis, but do we really want to our PG doing that?

I think we already have our PG on the roster.

[lon3lytoaster]

I dunno, I think the job of the PG is not to dominate or dribble the air out of the ball but to set pace, tempo.

White can penetrate, shoot the floater, dish the lob, kick out, and drill the 3.

He is in constant motion pushing the ball - by the pass or dribble - and the pace without getting out control or throwing hot dog behind the back passes etc.

He is a fabulous defender, one of the top take a charge guys and great weak side help - THE leading shot-blocking guard.

His on man coverage is pretty good as well and as the series progressed got pretty good on not biting on Jimmy Butler's action. He can't switch onto Giannis, but do we really want to our PG doing that?

I think we already have our PG on the roster.

This, 100%. At the end of the day, we don’t run an especially complicated offense. There’s not an awful lot going on possession to possession. They really just need the a guy to make the right play, be it for themselves or primarily Tatum. DW does that.

Marcus arguably over complicated the offense by rarely hitting guys in good spots or throwing some of the worst passes you’ll ever see. Sprinkle in a little bit of bad decision making and you start to wonder if Marcus was ever really that good of a PG.

[bucknersrevenge]

Put this in the other thread but I think it deserves to be here as well. I'm feeling more comfortable by the day with just rolling with DWhite as starting PG and Brogdon and PP backing him up.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[zoyathedestroya]

If Cs don't win the title next season, White or Porzingis in line to be the next fall guy. My money is on White (apart from Joe obviously).

[steefP2]

As a point guard or shooting guard?

I have reservations about white at point.

he played both in those games; I don’t have a way of hand tracking how much pg he played those games but in the 1000+ possessions Derrick white played point guard the team had a net rating of 15.7 compared to a net rating of 6.7 for the whole season.


Derrick white at the 1 was excellent last season. No other way about it.

82games has derrick played 12% of the teams minutes at point guard with a net rating of 15.

Thats pretty good.


But the lineup of

White
Brown
Tatum
Horfoird
RobWilliams

only played 68 minutes, albeit to good-great success


I just am very hesitant about his fulltime point guard abilities...probably shouldnt be,...but am.

Here you can see how the team did when white was PG, this is essentially all the minutes without smart or brogdon on the court when it lists White as pg.

[steefP2]

White/Brown/Tatum/GWilliams/Horford was our 3rd most used lineup last year. Net rating of +14.8

White/Brown/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was our 8th most used lineup and had an insane +46.9 rating

White/Hauser/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams was 11th most used lineup and had a +29.3 rating

It's fair to question how it will look as the primary starting unit, but all signs point to White at PG, 2 wings, 2 bigs being a great lineup. No matter what happened with Smart/Brogdon, the data suggests it's something we should have been looking to incorporate more of anyway.

Brogdon is a better scorer than White. Smart is a better playmaker. But all signs point to White's game being the best fit for this team at PG. Maybe he's not the optimal PG among the league-wide options, but the data suggest he was/is the best option on this team and one way we could possibly improve would be to feature that more. Now we'll be forced to.

The top 5 2-man pairs on the team in +\- are all Derrick White and someone else.

More evidence he's our best guard, IMO.

That doesn't specifically speak to him at PG though, which is what I was trying to get at. White/Tatum can have an amazing +/- but that doesn't speak to what's around them. I was trying to isolate it to lineups where White is the PG alongside 2 wings and 2 bigs, since based on our roster that figures to be the primary combo.

Not the best data here but these are all the minutes that White played without smart on the court and with any combo of Jayson, jaylen, hauser, grant, horford and rob. Closest approximation i could find.

[steefP2]

If you further isolate all the minutes White played without smart or brogdon but with any combo of Jaylen, Jayson, Hauser, Grant, rob, horford and muscala (kp stand in); you get to 723 possessions and a 16.6 net rating. Thats all of white's min at point guard without scrubs in the lineup essentially.

[165bows]

The top 5 2-man pairs on the team in +\- are all Derrick White and someone else.

More evidence he's our best guard, IMO.

That doesn't specifically speak to him at PG though, which is what I was trying to get at. White/Tatum can have an amazing +/- but that doesn't speak to what's around them. I was trying to isolate it to lineups where White is the PG alongside 2 wings and 2 bigs, since based on our roster that figures to be the primary combo.

Not the best data here but these are all the minutes that White played without smart on the court and with any combo of Jayson, jaylen, hauser, grant, horford and rob. Closest approximation i could find.

I’m guessing that the opposite (smart on, white off) isn’t super pretty.

[steefP2]

More evidence he's our best guard, IMO.

That doesn't specifically speak to him at PG though, which is what I was trying to get at. White/Tatum can have an amazing +/- but that doesn't speak to what's around them. I was trying to isolate it to lineups where White is the PG alongside 2 wings and 2 bigs, since based on our roster that figures to be the primary combo.

Not the best data here but these are all the minutes that White played without smart on the court and with any combo of Jayson, jaylen, hauser, grant, horford and rob. Closest approximation i could find.

I’m guessing that the opposite (smart on, white off) isn’t super pretty.

Smart on with any combo of jayson, Jaylen, hauser, grant rob Horford and muscala on is -2.9 in 640 possessions; so that’s essentially smart sole pg with the wings and and bigs. If you include brogdon to be a possible lineup teammate it becomes -2.4 in 1266 possessions


Of all the lineups that played over a 100 possessions last season with smart in them they were only positive when white was also part of them. For the broadest view; in 1900 possessions of smart on and white off the Celtics had a negative net rating of -1

[165bows]

Not the best data here but these are all the minutes that White played without smart on the court and with any combo of Jayson, jaylen, hauser, grant, horford and rob. Closest approximation i could find.

I’m guessing that the opposite (smart on, white off) isn’t super pretty.

Smart on with any combo of jayson, Jaylen, hauser, grant rob Horford and muscala on is -2.9 in 640 possessions; so that’s essentially smart sole pg with the wings and and bigs. If you include brogdon to be a possible lineup teammate it becomes -2.4 in 1266 possessions


Of all the lineups that played over a 100 possessions last season with smart in them they were only positive when white was also part of them. For the broadest view; in 1900 possessions of smart on and white off the Celtics had a negative net rating of -1

Welp that sort of tells the story doesn’t it. Loved Smart but he was weighing them down.