Summer League 2023, Multi-Game Thread – Celtics (2-3) in Vegas, July 7-17

[BostonCouchGM]

yes but we had 38 and 39.. could have had both as well at positions of need.

Word got out right before the draft that Vukcevic would not accept a 2-way contract and he would not accept being a draft and stash.

It probably would have only made sense for us to take him if he was a stash pick. He's probably not ready to be on the roster for a contender - and he's bad defensively and doesn't pass..not a great rebounder for a big either.

Washington is a good spot for him. He can get minutes there on a bad team and they don't really have any bigs who can shoot.

If we wanted a young project big to develop, we would have just kept Mo Gueye - at least he can play defense and pass. But clearly the C's preferred to just draft 1 guy, which is understandable that a contender with lots of vets doesn't want to have too many young kid development projects.

Man that Wiz team will suck but should be a bit more fun than a lot of tanking teams. T. Jones/Poole/Kispert/Kuzma/Gafford will put a lot of shots up and will sneak a few on nights they get hot.

Will still suck bad but might as well run and gun if you are going to be bad lol.

they STILL haven't committed to the tank though. Keeping Kuzma and trading for Poole and Jones will only serve to steal minutes from their young players and win just enough to lose out on a top pick. They had all the political cover they needed to embrace the tank with the Beal trade. It must be maddening to be a Wizards fan.

[SLCceltic]

Can we please get a look at Banton ??!
he was in uniform (warmups) today, yesterday he was in street clothes

[SLCceltic]

Walsh looks fantastic, great fit for what we need playing alongside the Jays. He does everything, so disruptive keeps the ball moving, plays so hard and with edge

Bean is very interesting, reminds me of a smaller more athletic Joe ingles. We may have something here...

Azubuke can have great impact if he is focused and playing hard. Still young with great size, rebounding post scoring, great nba body but his hustle and focus are serious question marks !

Everybody else is a scrubb, Champaigne is a hell of a rebounder for his size, but too small - JD has STRUGGLED
Scrub is just some Gleaguer -

[cloverleaf]

Walsh looks fantastic, great fit for what we need playing alongside the Jays. He does everything, so disruptive keeps the ball moving, plays so hard and with edge

Bean is very interesting, reminds me of a smaller more athletic Joe ingles. We may have something here...

Azubuke can have great impact if he is focused and playing hard. Still young with great size, rebounding post scoring, great nba body but his hustle and focus are serious question marks !

Everybody else is a scrubb, Champaigne is a hell of a rebounder for his size, but too small - JD has STRUGGLED
Scrub is just some Gleaguer -

Agree re: Walsh and Bean, though he may be a bit redundant with Hauser.

I am not really fan of Champagnie, but he had a very good game--and at 6'6" and 200 lbs, how is he too small for a SF? He also just turned 22, so still has lots of potential to develop. (C's fans somehow keep saying that about JB after 7 years in the league...)

Scrubb has some real scoring talent, but can he commit consistently to the rest of the game?

[Larry_Russell]

Walsh reminds me of a yoiung Rodman the way he moves out on the court. Just doesnt stop. Dennis became the greatest rebounder and defender in the history of the NBA, doubt that Walsh does...but just that movement reminds me of Dennis. Relentless.

Also, I think he has indeed learned to shoot. He apparently worked on it tirelessly for months and months. Keeps that up and he will be a LEGIT 3D player.

I like Scrubb. He can score in bunches. I think he could have a role on a team who can hone that Talent. Look at someone like Crawford who spent his career being a pretty much 1 dimensional guy off the bench as a scorer. I would like to see more from him and would offer a 2way I think. Especially with the absolute lack of depth at that postition. HE could potential be an impact player in the near future and having him on a 2way gives a lot of control over that.

Bean seems good, at least he is a good shooter. Just seems like he is running in sand on the court. And when we already have Hauser I think BEans best skill is overshadowed by someone better at all the same things than him.

For the last 2way contract that we can offer...I think I look at Azubuike. Cannot teach size and strength. And looking at his 10ppg on 5.5 shots (90.9% FGA) I just really like that. If you need a basket at the end of the game, you need someone who is gonna take up room in the middle with just sheer size to set screens and crash the boards.
6'10 and 275lbs is insane. Being around Horford would do WONDERS for this kid.

That would leave a roster of

Brogdon/Pritchard/Banton/Davidson (2wp)
White/....../...../Scrubb (2wp)
Brown/Walsh/Hauser
Tatum/Horford/Brisset
Porzingas/WIlliams/Kornet/Azuibuke (2wp)


Needs total
vet 3rd string pg
backup sg
vet 3rd string sg

absolute minimum need
Backup sg

Options:
Jaylen Green (Vet Min)
Terrence Davis (vet min)
Josh Christopher (trade for 2nd rounders into TPE)
Keon Johnson (trade for 2nd rounder into TPE)
Aaron Nesmith (into TPE)
an sg from OKC? into TPE
Moody (Into TPE for a pick saving Warriors loads of money)

[Hal14]

Jordan Walsh is going to be OK. He is a good defender, as advertised, and a willing passer. Best comp for his realistic ceiling is probably Matisse Thybulle, who is a useful player.

That's the only significant positive so far.

I wouldn't call that his ceiling. I'd say that is his median outcome. Keep in mind, Thybulle came into the league at age 23, was a 4 year college player and was not ranked in ESPN's top 100 recruits coming out of HS. Walsh is only 19, came into the NBA after his freshman year of college and was ESPN's #11 ranked player coming out of HS.

His last season of HS, Walsh was the best player and go-to scorer on a team that advanced to the GEICO National Championship game, knocking off 3 of the best teams in the country to get there.

He certainly could end up being a Thybulle / Herb Jones type of guy, but I'd say his ceiling is higher than that.

[Hal14]

Can we please get a look at Banton ??!
he was in uniform (warmups) today, yesterday he was in street clothes

He's got a finger injury. Not worth taking the chance in a meaningless game - especially since he already has a guaranteed contract.

With that being said, I am hoping to see him play, even if it's just the last game or 2 - to get a better idea of what he can do.

[darrendaye]

Larry_Russell, I had the same reaction with the Rodman reference, I didn't want to relay that because the rebounding is clearly worlds apart.

And just to have it on record for future discussions, I am strongly in opposition to your starters strategy. But we have all summer to get into that.

[Larry_Russell]

Jordan Walsh is going to be OK. He is a good defender, as advertised, and a willing passer. Best comp for his realistic ceiling is probably Matisse Thybulle, who is a useful player.

That's the only significant positive so far.

I see more Thabo Sefolosha than Thybulle as his comparison for floor (maybe even Ceiling and that is more than OK) Thybulle couldnt really do anything other than defend at this point of his career.


Walsh seems to do a bit of everything well. The only thing that is elite level, thus far at least, is his motor and athleticism.


He moves like a young detroit rodman on the court. Very few players have ever moved like Dennis. This kid does.

But he can also handle the ball, find a pass, defend (obviously not at Rodmans level), and apparently make shots now. Which is exactly the type of player that THabo was. A swiss army knife (no pun intented). Defended, made his very few shots per game, handled the ball, passes, boxed out. Just did all the fundamental stuff on the court.

[Larry_Russell]

Larry_Russell, I had the same reaction with the Rodman reference, I didn't want to relay that because the rebounding is clearly worlds apart.

And just to have it on record for future discussions, I am strongly in opposition to your starters strategy. But we have all summer to get into that.

RE: Rodman
Its weird isnt it...anyone who watched Dennis back in the day....it just so eerie almost. Even the way Walsh inbouds the ball of a made basket, half inbounds half outbounds....just very Rodman like



re: Starting lineup/

I think I am more in your court for thinking. I just think I am outside of Joes court of thinking on it.

I can very much so get behind Tatum at PF (he has better numbers there)
I can very much get behind Brown at sf( Not as much dribbling....WIN)

I can get behind White playing at SG (he is just a great guy to have ont he court)

I can get behind having a PG who can set the table, handle and calm the team down at times, and make shots.......Just not sure Brogdon is that guy, but not sure that guy is obtainable with the trade assets the team has.

[Hal14]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but M. Kabengele is on the Hawks' roster. On loan, right? Right??

Does this mean there are now two 2-way roster spots open?

That's always been the case. Kabengele's 2-way contract for last year was a 1 year deal. So as soon as the season ended, he became a FA again..

[31to6]

Walsh reminds me of a yoiung Rodman the way he moves out on the court. Just doesnt stop. Dennis became the greatest rebounder and defender in the history of the NBA

Larry I love a lot of this post but I’ve got to stop you there and say THIS IS A BOSTON CELTICS FORUM MY FRIEND and YOU ARE FORGETTING SOMEONE

agree with almost everything else you wrote. I’d be happy with Azubuike and Scrubb joining JD on two-ways if they’re eligible/would accept (not sure on either) and love your idea of getting Nesmith back with the TPE though I’d assume IND keeps him and continues trying to develop him.

[Larry_Russell]

Walsh reminds me of a yoiung Rodman the way he moves out on the court. Just doesnt stop. Dennis became the greatest rebounder and defender in the history of the NBA

Larry I love a lot of this post but I’ve got to stop you there and say THIS IS A BOSTON CELTICS FORUM MY FRIEND and YOU ARE FORGETTING SOMEONE

agree with almost everything else you wrote. I’d be happy with Azubuike and Scrubb joining JD on two-ways if they’re eligible/would accept (not sure on either) and love your idea of getting Nesmith back with the TPE though I’d assume IND keeps him and continues trying to develop him.

LOL.


True,


I will correct my thought and state

" ONE OF THE currently measurable statistically ....... greatest defenders of all time. "

[31to6]

Thanks; hat tip.

I do see the Rodman comparison in terms of odd physical structure and hyper-wirey movements. Part of the legend of Dennis is that he also had amazing hands and multiple-jump abilities that I don’t know if they can be taught or developed. Walsh looks bouncy in his AAU/high school mixtape, but in the Summer League context he doesn’t seem to have any more athleticism than the average guy.

[cloverleaf]

Thanks; hat tip.

I do see the Rodman comparison in terms of odd physical structure and hyper-wirey movements. Part of the legend of Dennis is that he also had amazing hands and multiple-jump abilities that I don’t know if they can be taught or developed. Walsh looks bouncy in his AAU/high school mixtape, but in the Summer League context he doesn’t seem to have any more athleticism than the average guy.

Or as many rebounds as Sham Penny, who camped out under the basket late in defensive possessions.

[Parliament10]

Larry_Russell, I had the same reaction with the Rodman reference, I didn't want to relay that because the rebounding is clearly worlds apart.

And just to have it on record for future discussions, I am strongly in opposition to your starters strategy. But we have all summer to get into that.

RE: Rodman
Its weird isnt it...anyone who watched Dennis back in the day....it just so eerie almost. Even the way Walsh inbouds the ball of a made basket, half inbounds half outbounds....just very Rodman like



re: Starting lineup/

I think I am more in your court for thinking. I just think I am outside of Joes court of thinking on it.

I can very much so get behind Tatum at PF (he has better numbers there)
I can very much get behind Brown at sf( Not as much dribbling....WIN)

I can get behind White playing at SG (he is just a great guy to have ont he court)

I can get behind having a PG who can set the table, handle and calm the team down at times, and make shots.......Just not sure Brogdon is that guy, but not sure that guy is obtainable with the trade assets the team has.

I'm onboard with the Rodman reference. IMO, Greatest Defensive Player of All-Time.
If Walsh becomes 1/3rd of what Rodman was, that would be Good. Half of Rodman, and he'd be Great.

[sam_I_am]

Larry_Russell, I had the same reaction with the Rodman reference, I didn't want to relay that because the rebounding is clearly worlds apart.

And just to have it on record for future discussions, I am strongly in opposition to your starters strategy. But we have all summer to get into that.

RE: Rodman
Its weird isnt it...anyone who watched Dennis back in the day....it just so eerie almost. Even the way Walsh inbouds the ball of a made basket, half inbounds half outbounds....just very Rodman like



re: Starting lineup/

I think I am more in your court for thinking. I just think I am outside of Joes court of thinking on it.

I can very much so get behind Tatum at PF (he has better numbers there)
I can very much get behind Brown at sf( Not as much dribbling....WIN)

I can get behind White playing at SG (he is just a great guy to have ont he court)

I can get behind having a PG who can set the table, handle and calm the team down at times, and make shots.......Just not sure Brogdon is that guy, but not sure that guy is obtainable with the trade assets the team has.

I'm onboard with the Rodman reference. IMO, Greatest Defensive Player of All-Time.
If Walsh becomes 1/3rd of what Rodman was, that would be Good. Half of Rodman, and he'd be Great.

Walsh looked like a great defender in college. In summer league he looks reasonably good on defense - maybe even NBA ready - but hardly the difference maker I was hoping he would be like we’ve seen before from Tony Allen, Rondo, Avery Bradley and Smart. And none of those 4 guys were like Rodman. Walsh’s length will make him a great help defender but I’m not seeing the lock down ability at this level. Maybe it’s a foot speed thing…..maybe the coaches have him focusing on other aspects of the game. Still…..I can’t endorse the Rodman comparisons after these 2 games. Would be happy to turn out wrong about this.

I think it would be awesome if he turns out to be a solid top 10 rotation 3 and D guy off the bench.

[Hal14]

RE: Rodman
Its weird isnt it...anyone who watched Dennis back in the day....it just so eerie almost. Even the way Walsh inbouds the ball of a made basket, half inbounds half outbounds....just very Rodman like



re: Starting lineup/

I think I am more in your court for thinking. I just think I am outside of Joes court of thinking on it.

I can very much so get behind Tatum at PF (he has better numbers there)
I can very much get behind Brown at sf( Not as much dribbling....WIN)

I can get behind White playing at SG (he is just a great guy to have ont he court)

I can get behind having a PG who can set the table, handle and calm the team down at times, and make shots.......Just not sure Brogdon is that guy, but not sure that guy is obtainable with the trade assets the team has.

I'm onboard with the Rodman reference. IMO, Greatest Defensive Player of All-Time.
If Walsh becomes 1/3rd of what Rodman was, that would be Good. Half of Rodman, and he'd be Great.

Walsh looked like a great defender in college. In summer league he looks reasonably good on defense - maybe even NBA ready - but hardly the difference maker I was hoping he would be like we’ve seen before from Tony Allen, Rondo, Avery Bradley and Smart. And none of those 4 guys were like Rodman. Walsh’s length will make him a great help defender but I’m not seeing the lock down ability at this level. Maybe it’s a foot speed thing…..maybe the coaches have him focusing on other aspects of the game. Still…..I can’t endorse the Rodman comparisons after these 2 games. Would be happy to turn out wrong about this.

I think it would be awesome if he turns out to be a solid top 10 rotation 3 and D guy off the bench.

Give him time. It's only been 2 games. And 1 of those games he played with a knee contusion.

[Hal14]

lol

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[ParticleMan]

sham penny reminds me of adrian griffin, solid end of bench guy who does everything decently but nothing well. wouldn't mind him at all as our 15th guy, he is someone you can trust to make positive plays when given a chance.

JD... ok another terrible game, but i'll just say this in his defense: There are things you can teach, and things you can't teach. two things you can teach are shooting and decision making, and those are the two things holding him back right now. he's only 20.
... that said, we better start seeing some improvement soon. so far he is the same player as last year, maybe worse.

Walsh is such a keeper, love his energy. got a bit over excited with the shooting there, in a way it was good he came back to earth on that before he starts thinking he's sam hauser. just play to your strengths, and shoot when you're open.